1G Restoring front end suspension: Which parts to replace?

[XC92]

Change the wheel bearing while you have it apart. For the p/s fluid, there’s no drain. You’ll have to remove the pump, reservoir, cooler and all the lines if you want to drain everything.

New front wheel bearings at only 78k miles, with just a tiny bit of play?

Well, it would make cleaning the knuckle/hub assembly a lot easier...

 

[AWD-Tony]

New front wheel bearings at only 78k miles, with just a tiny bit of play?

Well, it would make cleaning the knuckle/hub assembly a lot easier...

Little play will eventually turn to play, more play, then lots of play .

 

[pauleyman]

I don't have such a tool but could probably rent or borrow one. But, if the front crossmember is just as good at supporting the engine in front, I'll use that instead. It has to go back on eventually and doesn't really need to be off for any of the other things I need to do, as far as I can tell. Thanks for the reminder.

The FSM doesn't address this, unfortunately. What happens if I don't do this, the motor starts pivoting forward or back, depending on its center of gravity? Or, it places excessive torque on the 2 side mounts, which may look ok but could damage them, the engine or frame?

It wont go forward or back. The problem will be when you remove the transmission and there is only one left. Just put the front back in. That will be fine.

 

[XC92]

It wont go forward or back. The problem will be when you remove the transmission and there is only one left. Just put the front back in. That will be fine.

No reason to keep it out once I've cleaned, derusted and painted it, that I can see, so I'll put it back on.

I'll also put a jack with wooden block under the oil pan, as extra insurance. That will give the engine 3 supports, front, left and front-left.

Oh wait, don't I have to remove the left engine mount too? I forgot why but I seem to recall that I have to, to remove the trans or get to the steering rack or something.

 

[pauleyman]

No reason to keep it out once I've cleaned, derusted and painted it, that I can see, so I'll put it back on.

I'll also put a jack with wooden block under the oil pan, as extra insurance. That will give the engine 3 supports, front, left and front-left.

Oh wait, don't I have to remove the left engine mount too? I forgot why but I seem to recall that I have to, to remove the trans or get to the steering rack or something.

It will be fine. Driver side and front are enough. Engine might hang a little but i don't think it will cause you issues. Especially since subframe won't be there when you stab the trans back. Alignment issues are less of a problem when lots of stuff is out of the way. If and when you ever stan a trans with subframe in you'll see what i mean. A little harder to do as alignment is a little harder to achieve. You have to finesse it a little more.

 

[XC92]

The one downside to putting the subframe on after the trans that I can see is that it'll be a challenge to properly torque down the front part of the control arm given that it's impossible to get a torque wrench on the front bolt/nut (I forget the orientation), unless I use a claw attachment which changes the torque setting (but which can be calculated, but, another tool to buy), and while I can probably get it on the back bolt/nut, there might not be enough clearance below for a torque wrench with the proper torque range.

I'll figure it out.

 

[pauleyman]

The one downside to putting the subframe on after the trans that I can see is that it'll be a challenge to properly torque down the front part of the control arm given that it's impossible to get a torque wrench on the front bolt/nut (I forget the orientation), unless I use a claw attachment which changes the torque setting (but which can be calculated, but, another tool to buy), and while I can probably get it on the back bolt/nut, there might not be enough clearance below for a torque wrench with the proper torque range.

I'll figure it out.

Well....i don t use a torque wrench on that. Never have. If you really wanted to you could bolt the control arms to the subframe first.
I took a tour if the factory in the 90s and the PR guy mentioned how they bolt in the cradle, motor etc. On the assembly line it takes 90 sec. The room physically snickered when he said it. He didn't know what to do.

 

[XC92]

I'll figure out a way around it. More concerning is how I'll get the subframe out with the front end of the propeller shaft right under it and not much room to maneuver there. Given how heavy it is I really don't want it pressing down on let alone falling on the shaft. Taking out the trans gives me a bit more room, on the right at least, but if I put the trans back in first I'll have the same problem in reverse.

I think the way to do it is to suspend the subframe from above with a strong rope attached to something solid (what that might be, I have no idea, but I'll figure something out, like an engine support bar or even a long shovel since it'll just be for a few minutes). I'm even tempted to just leave it alone, but once I set my mind to doing something I tend to do it and figure it out somehow.

I took out the transfer case today. It was a lot harder than I expected. 3 of the 5 bolts came out fine with an impact wrench but 2 just wouldn't budge no matter how much penetrating oil I sprayed on and hitting the area with a hammer. What finally worked was using a cheater pipe on a breaker bar.

Then the actual case wouldn't come out. I carefully tried to wedge it out with a pry bar, but that barely moved it. What worked was just grabbing front an back and slowly swinging it either way, then hitting it from the right side with a hammer. It's strongly built so I doubt I did any damage.

When it finally came out, I noticed that the input splines on the case, as well as the output shaft on the trans, were rusted and dry, like there hasn't been lube there for a while. I did drain both a few days ago, but I can't imagine that all this rust developed since then. Might be a clue as to the state of the trans and t-case. Or not. Perhaps this is normal? There was definitely oil in the t-case when I drained it.

I was glad to see though that when I spun the input splines (with the wood handle of a brush, nothing that could damage them), the output shaft turned, so it's working internally, at least when not under load.

Now what's left is removing the steering assembly and subframe, some more cleaning underneath, and then I can finally get to removing the trans itself, which was the original reason I undertook all this way back in July. Thankfully it's raining here tomorrow as I need a break from the harder tasks, and I find that cleaning under the car works better when it rains as it washes away the dripping grime.

 

[We're on Boost]

Those splines that are rusty, I don't think they get any exposure to any oil from either the T-case or the tranny.
I'm just looking at the diagram on page 21-68 in the FSM. Looks like the shaft from the transmission is running through air in like the bell housing, just as it dives into the T-case input splines. There are oil seals on either side of the "air" section.
Right?

 

[XC92]

Kind of odd but perhaps it's not necessary that they be lubricated or any mechanism for keeping them lubed comes with its own issues, be it higher cost, more complexity, yet more things that could break and need to be maintained, extra weight, etc.

Perhaps whoever last took the t-case off neglected to properly lube the splines on either end, or it's been so many years that any lube applied has dried up. It's probably been around 20 years, I think, since I've had a new clutch put in or had anything done that would require pulling the t-case.

At least the t-case appears to be working fine internally and actually transferring power. In any case I'll clean it all up and apply proper lube before putting it back on. Ah, great, yet another task...

 

[We're on Boost]

Yeah I never knew it was like that.

I’d be interested in knowing if that air space is indeed open to the clutch housing, or if it is a separate dry bay all by itself.

My first thought was, man, if the OEM had slathered those splines with Molykote 111, they wouldn’t be rusty today. But on the other hand you don’t want to be slinging a lot of slippery stuff around in that dry bay if it is shared with the clutch.
My next thought was, well the FSM tells you how to grease the splines in the clutch disk:
“Apply a coating of the specified grease to the clutch
disc spline, and then use a brush to rub it in.” (page 6-18)
I suppose the brush to rub it in is their strategy for not having excess grease there?
I imagine they mean something like a toothbrush?

So then, looking for a similar note about the center shaft (that is the shaft we are talking about) I see it here on page 21-85:
“If the grease has been wiped from the center shaft
spline or if the center shaft has been replaced, apply
special grease (MOPAR Multi-mileage Lubricant Part
No.2525035 or equivalent) to the center shaft spline.”

I don’t see anything about avoiding excess.

 

[XC92]

I've had the clutch replaced at least twice, plus there were trans issues early on that required it to be dropped, so the t-case has been removed and reinstalled at least three times since the car was made, possibly more times, and either they didn't put any lube on it the last time, didn't put enough, put on the wrong kind, or it just dried up over time as it has been around 20 years to the best of my recollection.

I doubt that grease can get on the clutch disc, pressure plate or flywheel friction surfaces since the spline will be fully inserted into the t-case. I assume that you just have to make sure to not apply too much as it would be squeezed out onto the non-splined part of the shaft, or put any there to begin with. It would not only potentially fly off onto the friction surfaces, but also attract all that dust.

Also, the center shaft output occupies the same open air space as the flywheel, clutch and pressure plate. This is the bell housing, right? I know this because when I took off the t-case, this is what I saw:

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It appears to just be surface or flash rust, nothing too serious I hope. Perhaps some moisture got into the bell housing via the fork boot. I'll replace it if that's the case, and check for more serious potential leaks or cracks. Hopefully it's not indicative of something more serious.

I assume that all that cruddy stuff inside is clutch disk dust. If it used asbestos I'll be extra careful when opening it up and cleaning it. You'd almost think there should be a disposable collector device for such stuff inside that housing, for when you replace the clutch.

In any case I'll put grease on the output shaft splines and the matching input splines on the t-case when it's time to put it back on. What kind am I supposed to use, Molykote 111? Is that the same thing as MOPAR Multi-mileage Lubricant Part No. 2525035, or better?

I assume that all such splined connections should get the same grease, right? And is this different from the kind of grease I should be putting into ball joints and using to grease metal parts that rub against each other, like brake pads where they contact the caliper and door hinges?

 

[We're on Boost]

Ok yeah it looks like it's open to the bell housing.
That rust is kind of disgusting isn't it?
I can't really say that Molykote 111 is the best thing for these splines. I mean, it's technically not even a grease. It is a silicone compound. I like it because it never separates and it has extreme resistance to water washout.
But probably for this you should play it more conventional haha and use an actual automotive grease.

I don't know what to recommend for it, but I expect the grease should be an NLGI #2 which is the thick stuff.
I found what looks to be a listing of the currently available Mopar greases:
http://www.moparrepairconnection.ca/chemical/action/guide/en_CA/LUBRICANTS+AND+GREASE/

Personally I'd probably get something like Valvoline Cerulean or Valvoline Palladium which are both available as Heavy Duty NLGI #2 greases.

 

[XC92]

Yeah, rust is disgusting no matter what kind. I recently rebuilt all 4 brake calipers and there was some deeply embedded rust that only a rotary tool could get out, and what it removed looked a lot like this sort of rust. I call them rust bombs, what looks like regular caked-on grime that's just the surface glaze of a glob of rust that's been there for years, that "explodes" when you apply the right tool to it. It's both disgusting but also strangely satisfying, knowing you're getting it all out. A clean car is a good car.

As for the grease, lube, etc., I'll look it up. I'm sure there are excellent guides out there.

 

[pauleyman]

The rust is normal. It can be mostly prevented with grease. I used brake caliper grease on those splines for the last 25 years. The splines can get damaged from lack of lube. Look closely. Good teeth are square. Worn start to look like a sawtooth. Yours should be fine. Clean it up and grease them. When teeth get worn enough they will slip. At that point typically the output trans shaft and the transfer input are trash. So far i haven't seen anything out if the ordinary. Just basic maintenance. Keep going you're making progress

 

[AWD-Tony]

The one downside to putting the subframe on after the trans that I can see is that it'll be a challenge to properly torque down the front part of the control arm given that it's impossible to get a torque wrench on the front bolt/nut (I forget the orientation), unless I use a claw attachment which changes the torque setting (but which can be calculated, but, another tool to buy), and while I can probably get it on the back bolt/nut, there might not be enough clearance below for a torque wrench with the proper torque range.

I'll figure it out.

I was able to torque everything. Are you talking about the long bolt for the lca? The nut goes on from the front of the car.

 

[XC92]

So it sounds like I should be ok. Before the clutch failed I didn't notice anything weird about power from the rear wheels. Felt like it always did. So probably the splines are fine, just need light derusting with Evaporust and then some rinsing off, drying and lube.

Although I'm still fairly new to car repair, I have maintained my road bikes for decades, so I do have a certain mechanical sense. Vastly simpler than cars of course but there are lots of similarities, like how when your drivetrain's not good you can tell right away as the chain skips especially under load (which is exactly when you don't want it to skip). Lube is obviously very important there too (although the best bike lube in my opinion is "dry" lube, that's teflon-based), rust is not your friend (although I've never had a problem with it since I've always maintained my bikes properly and there's not much steel on modern bikes), and having the right tools and knowing how to use them is key.

As for the subframe, I'll probably wait till I have the trans off before taking it off, so I have more room to maneuver it so it doesn't hit the front of the prop shaft, but I'll also probably put it back on after the trans is back on, a LILO order (last off last on). I should be ok torquing the control arms.

Today it rained hard so all I could do was clean the underside and top of the engine bay and more of the underframe. Amazing how much crap was on there and how it's slowly starting to look like a car you wouldn't necessarily assume was salvaged from a junkyard or a beater. I'm shooting for an early to mid-November completion date. The main wild card at this point is what's causing the 1st gear to pop out and how complicated a fix it'll be. But I won't know till I take it off and pop it open.

Of course, there are other issues I'll have to deal with soon enough, dented wheels, dry rotted tires, misaligned doors, stuck windows, body dents galore, cracked paint, faulty cruise control, disconnected speakers, an exhaust pipe not long for this world, a slightly dented gas tank that probably needs a good cleaning, etc. But not of these will prevent the car from being driveable and street legal. All in good time.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Take a brass wire wheel to the output shaft. It’ll take you two minutes. Then lube it. My spare trans I picked up was like that too from sitting in the guys shed.

And btw you win longest post guy everrrrr

 

[XC92]

Btw does anyone sell a seal kit for the AWD trans & t-case, and should I only replace the ones that appear to be leaking, or all of them just to be sure? They're not that expensive, a bit under $40 if you buy them separately at RockAuto. Aftermarket of course. OEM's are pricey.

These are the ones I mean:

Trans Right
Trans Left
Trans Input
Trans Output
T-Case Input (same as trans output)
T-Case output

I'm also going to get the rear crank seal kit since I'll have access to it.

Am I missing any others? The front engine seals I'll replace when I replace the TB.

 

[AWD-Tony]

That’s all the seals on the outside. There’s one or two that’s inside the trans if you ever take it apart. Get new crush washers and I’d recommend going oem with any seals if you can afford it. I’ve had an aftermarket oil pump seal leak within a year

 

[We're on Boost]

Did you ever do the recall that gets you a redesigned driveshaft yoke? (at the T-case output)
Like this:
https://www.extremepsi.com/store/OE...ir-Kit-Mitsubishi-Eclipse-90-99-AWD-ONLY.html

 

[XC92]

I took it in for the recall way back when, but they said they took a look and it was fine, so they didn't do any work. I knew next to nothing about cars back then so I took their word for it. This was around 1998 or so, and I've not noticed any problems with power to the rear wheels or major leaking, and when I just emptied the t-case, a decent amount of oil came out, I'd say around half a quart, which I think is about right, maybe a tad short but there's probably still some sloshing around inside. Now that its off the car I'll open up the drain plug again and shake it around to get the rest out before putting it back on and refilling it.

Btw, I took a closer look at all the suspension members I took off the car, and in addition to the 4 bushings I need to replace on both control arms, the 4 on the subframe, and the 2 on the sway bar, for which ES makes replacement bushing kits (each of which I just ordered from Advance Auto for just over $100 for all 3 sets), there are another 4 bushings for which there don't appear to be kits of replacement bushings. 2 are on the front crossmember and are the same as the 2 front ones on the subframe, and then there's one each on each bracket that connects the each control arm back section to the subframe. paulyman says not to worry about the front crossmember ones, but what about the bracket ones? Not to worry about these too?

In case you're wondering which brackets I'm talking about, go to the first page of this thread and take a look at the image I posted of all the suspension parts I've take out. The brackets are on the upper part of the image on either side of the sway bar, right above the rotors. Each has a small bushing that the main subframe bolt goes through. So, the front end of the car really uses 14 separate bushings, if you include the 2 sway bar ones, but ES only sells 10 of them, in 3 separate kits. I guess they're not that important?

 

[pauleyman]

So it sounds like I should be ok. Before the clutch failed I didn't notice anything weird about power from the rear wheels. Felt like it always did. So probably the splines are fine, just need light derusting with Evaporust and then some rinsing off, drying and lube.

Although I'm still fairly new to car repair, I have maintained my road bikes for decades, so I do have a certain mechanical sense. Vastly simpler than cars of course but there are lots of similarities, like how when your drivetrain's not good you can tell right away as the chain skips especially under load (which is exactly when you don't want it to skip). Lube is obviously very important there too (although the best bike lube in my opinion is "dry" lube, that's teflon-based), rust is not your friend (although I've never had a problem with it since I've always maintained my bikes properly and there's not much steel on modern bikes), and having the right tools and knowing how to use them is key.

As for the subframe, I'll probably wait till I have the trans off before taking it off, so I have more room to maneuver it so it doesn't hit the front of the prop shaft, but I'll also probably put it back on after the trans is back on, a LILO order (last off last on). I should be ok torquing the control arms.

Today it rained hard so all I could do was clean the underside and top of the engine bay and more of the underframe. Amazing how much crap was on there and how it's slowly starting to look like a car you wouldn't necessarily assume was salvaged from a junkyard or a beater. I'm shooting for an early to mid-November completion date. The main wild card at this point is what's causing the 1st gear to pop out and how complicated a fix it'll be. But I won't know till I take it off and pop it open.

Of course, there are other issues I'll have to deal with soon enough, dented wheels, dry rotted tires, misaligned doors, stuck windows, body dents galore, cracked paint, faulty cruise control, disconnected speakers, an exhaust pipe not long for this world, a slightly dented gas tank that probably needs a good cleaning, etc. But not of these will prevent the car from being driveable and street legal. All in good time.

Actually no. I would drop the subframe first. Makes the trans easy to get out. Your choice. Dropping a trans is pretty easy either way. Its getting it back in thats a little harder. Ive done at least 50 trans drops. Its just tedious and dirty.

 

[XC92]

I'll do that if I think I can get it out w/o hitting the front of the prop shaft. Definitely don't want to damage that what with all the other work I've got to do. But as you said it's harder to get the trans back in with the subframe there compared to taking it out. I'll figure it out.

Today was a "rest" day, but I did take a look at all the parts as a sanity check. Everything looks fine, control arms, sway bar, members, etc. They just need some derusting and paint, and of course the new bushings which I just ordered and ball joints that I'm about to order (Rock Auto's shipping can add up if you do it piecemeal so I want to make sure I have everything I need before playing a large order).

I checked the knuckle/hub assembly and while fairly minor there is some play, not so much that I risk the wheels coming out at highway speed, but since I have them out I might as well replace the bearings too. Between the two and both sets of seals it's around $80, well worth it.

Also, not sure why but I never really gave the tie rod ends a good look previously. I just did and they're probably due for replacement too. One's got a few 2-3mm rips in the boot and the other appears to have been low on grease for some time, causing the front part of the boot to crease in and look like it's close to tearing. So I'll get one of each too (Moog). I've replaced them before on another car so no big deal. And yes, I'll make sure to mark everything and count the number of rotations to take the old ones out so when I put in the new ones the alignment isn't too bad (but after the car's driveable I'll definitely get it aligned).

I'm also going to order all the external seals for the trans and t-case, 6 in all. Another $40. If you think of anything else I forgot, let me know. I'm going to place the order within the next few days, plus another order for the clutch kit (SBC S2 DD). Not sure about the shift fork, fulcrum, boot or slave cylinder. I'll have a look at all of them when the trans is out and decide. I'm guessing that only the boot needs replacing and the others I can just derust, clean up and the cylinder rebuild. We'll see.

 

[XC92]

Quick question. I started removing the control arm ball joints and was able to get the boot, grease and c-clip off (dumb c-clip design btw with nothing to insert the snap ring pliers into) and clean up the round groove from the accumulated grease and rust. But I'm stumped in how to press it out.

It comes out the bottom, right?

I loaned out the OEM ball joint press tool from Pep Boys but the small receiving ring is too narrow to fit over the bottom part of the ball joint while the medium ring is too wide and only makes contact with the lip of the underside of the arm, not the flat part, and I'm afraid that the pressure will bend it.

It seems like there's a stamped metal cap on the bottom of the BJ that can be removed, which will then allow the small ring to fit over it and butt up against the flat part of the underside. Is this so, and how does it come off? Or do I need to either chance it with the medium ring or find an in-between-sized ring?

It's always the little things that cause the most hangups.