[RESOLVED] Full rebuild dilema

[malucifer]

Well heres the story I tore the engine to rebuild it, got myself some wiseco 9.0:1's(6 bolt 1gen) and eagle rods. Put everything back together and after charging the battery for a bit tried cranking it over, it "sounds" like its cranking really fast although the lights go dead momentarily when I start to crank it (obviously from the non fully charged battery) once in every 6-15 rotations the car will through a quick backfire and sometimes a whistle out of my dump tube. Any ideas or should I wait for a fully charged battery before thinking im screwed? I did this build in the snow in my driveway so im hoping its not all in vain. Also can anyone tell me what bolts are used for the oil return line end that goes to the oil pan I need to pick up 2 more of those and im not sure what type of bolt they are. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[BoredDSM]

Did you have the motor properly machined? Sounds like your not getting compression if its cranking really fast. Did you make sure for spark and fuel?

 

[malucifer]

Well I tried starting the bastard at 9pm so I didnt bother checking on the fuel/spark yet, Ill try this tomorrow of course. Looking for ideas that might click in my head as to maybe I forgot to do this or that. The car was running right before I rebuilt it, only issue then was a crapped out piston on cylinder #1, Im using standard bore wiseco's, and I checked the cylinder walls with a digital caliper all where nice and round aside from the the first cylinder wall which was off .0002 inches but of course I may have just pressed a little too hard on the caliper. Ill check the compression tomorrow see whats up. After a rebuild does it take a little bit of cranking to get the oil in the right spots and the rings to sit just right before it usually starts up? This is my first full rebuild so im not positive if its just finicky sometimes. Thanks again for your response.

 

[nuclearr]

did you lube the pistons before you intalled them? When you say there is a whiste in your dump tube are you refering to your turbo oil return? Is timming correct?

 

[malucifer]

Yeah the pistons are lubed along with the cylinder walls (and the ring compressor I used) I made sure of this. The whistle I heard once while cranking it came from my o2 dump sounded like a bov exhale snoring (I guess thats about as descriptive as I can imagine it?) And as far as timing Im hoping I did it correctly, The crankshaft sprocket was on tdc for the #1 (lined up at the T on the plate) the oil sprocket was lined up and the cams were put in with the timing marks meeting each other at the exact line of the head (used a level for this) that is what has to be done for a full rebuild right? Thanks again for the responses.

 

[nuclearr]

1st do a compression test. If your not getting above 170 psi after 3 rotations you have an issue. 2nd Check the timing again its easy to get a tooth off. I just timmed my motor last weekend and b/c its hard to get all the tension out of the fire wall side of the belt I was a tooth off. You say its backfireing? Is it even trying to start? I would check the timing and then go from there. I dont put the lower cover or any pulls or belts when I do a timming job so I can test run and retimed. Once I get it right then I put things back together. 3rd Once you conferm timming take loose your intake piping and your turbo and have some one hand crank the engine with the crank bolt If you hear a hiss as you come to the compression points out of either you have bent valves. I had a T/B skip a few teeth (between 3 & 5 teeth) and I bent the ehaust valves on the #1 cylinder.

 

[malucifer]

Also the bolt type/size used on the oil return in the oil pan would be greatful, they are both leaking oil out the holes behind the tube(this wouldnt cause the engine not to start would it? (haha) but if someone could get me that info Id appreciate it as well. Cant go without oil.

 

[nuclearr]

its the same pitch as the 10 mm bolts all over your car take a 10mm bolt out and go the the hardware store I think the bolts are less than 1/2 long

 

[malucifer]

Actually it seems like a backfire, ever so often it goes poof (about a second long poof, not loud just a light one) Thing is I have my boost guage in front of me and as it *poofs* the guage climbs passed the 0 mark momentarily. Only when the *poof* happens (sorry for the lack of a better word.

 

[malucifer]

its the same pitch as the 10 mm bolts all over your car take a 10mm bolt out and go the the hardware store I think the bolts are less than 1/2 long

Alright I was just wondering I thought they were longer than the standard shit load of 10mm used all over the car.

 

[nuclearr]

I would say your timming is off. Check timming and lets us know after that

 

[e85_4g63]

Did you do a compression test? Remember when it's cold it's not going to be as high as it will at temp. Also, when you did the timing belt did you rotate the engine 6 turns by hand and recheck the timing marks

 

[malucifer]

Well I didnt rotate the engine 6 turns after the belt. Im not fully understanding the timing issue I guess *also first time...timing a car* so even if the marks are all lined up where they should be when I put the belt on, after turning it 6 rotations they could be off? Not to sound like an idiot but how would that happen? Ill check the compression tomorrow first off to see if that is the deal, then I guess I can try the timing belt again (anyone have an easy guide with pictures to do the timing on these dsm's?) perhaps im not lining it up right I dont know. Again thanks for the help and sorry if im being a pain in the ass.

 

[BoredDSM]

How did you install the rings? Did you properly file them down? How did you measure it with a caliper? The caliper does not reach down far enough into the cylinder where the actual wear is. Cars as old as ours would definitely need a bore and hone before you install new pistons. Even if you were using standard bore pistons you would have to still hone the walls so that the rings seal properly. Drain the oil and smell it. If it smells like gasoline then its already no good because your rings are not sealing properly.

 

[malucifer]

Well I measured the tops and bottoms of the cylinder with the caliper about an inch up and down, I guess there could be a possibility of the center being off. I did hone the cylinders out with a flex hone the cross hatch was nice and even and it was roughed up, I also used lots of lube and made sure to take as little off as I could. But Alright ill try all this out tomorrow, ive taken enough of your time tonight, I appreciate the suggestions and Ill post back tomorrow if I find the issue. If this ends up being a botched build, anyone want some std bore wiseco 9.0:1's on eagle rods, tubular manifold, o2 open dump, 1g fmic+piping for $1000?


the cross hatch was nice and even and it "wasnt" roughed up...mistyped.

 

[BoredDSM]

Well I measured the tops and bottoms of the cylinder with the caliper about an inch up and down, I guess there could be a possibility of the center being off. I did hone the cylinders out with a flex hone the cross hatch was nice and even and it was roughed up, I also used lots of lube and made sure to take as little off as I could. But Alright ill try all this out tomorrow, ive taken enough of your time tonight, I appreciate the suggestions and Ill post back tomorrow if I find the issue. If this ends up being a botched build, anyone want some std bore wiseco 9.0:1's on eagle rods, tubular manifold, o2 open dump, 1g fmic+piping for $1000?


the cross hatch was nice and even and it "wasnt" roughed up...mistyped.

You've gone this far, might as well get it machined and put in a new set of pistons. I would be interested in the setup though .

 

[malucifer]

Lol ok well we will see how tomorrow goes then, and Ill keep you in mind when I break down and say screw it =)

 

[malucifer]

Actually as stupid as this sounds, no oil in the engine = no compression right? I just so happened to discover an oil pan bolt in my jacket pocket...rather or not its the one from the car or a spare im not sure yet ohdamn but yeah if I have no oil in the engine it wouldnt have the compression to start would it?

 

[BoredDSM]

Actually as stupid as this sounds, no oil in the engine = no compression right? I just so happened to discover an oil pan bolt in my jacket pocket...rather or not its the one from the car or a spare im not sure yet ohdamn but yeah if I have no oil in the engine it wouldnt have the compression to start would it?

Theoretically if your engine even spun then there would be compression. But considering the fact you do not have oil in there you most likely have done some damage to the crankshaft and the journals which means your motor is toast.

 

[malucifer]

Well heres the compression numbers
#1:50
#2:25
#3:20
#4:5

added capful of oil on top not a single psi change at all...any ideas I would think if it was the rings then the oil would have seeped in enough to raise it at least 1psi or even .5? Let me know what you think, could it still be timing that is giving it that sort of compression, intake leak, leaking oil return line? Thanks again.

 

[jrohner]

Did you have your head redone? I bet your valves aren't sealing. You didn't crank it over (even by hand) with the timing belt off when some valves were open did you? Double check your timing marks also.

 

[malucifer]

Well heres the thing I had my cams off the head(no it wasnt machined) having the cams off would make all the valves closed(right?) I put the rockers in the caps on and then the timing belt. The only times I cranked the engine was while the head was off (installing the pistons for ease of install) and after the belt was on to check and make sure valves werent smacking the pistons(I dont know how many times I cranked it all sounded good though) so your suggesting the valves might not be sealing, does this sound more like the case or is it possibly all the rings are fudged and not sealing. Whats strange is the valves that looked like they could use a little love where on the intake side of #1 which is getting the highest compression atm. And right before the new build my old pistons were getting about 100 across the board. Car ran better with a shot piston and 3 other crappy ones

 

[jrohner]

When your compression didn't change by putting in oil, that pointed to the valves rather than the rings. I would bring the head to a machine shop and have a valve job done, it's not that expensive. My valve job was $100 and I also bought new SS valves on ebay for $100, so $200 total (you may not NEED new valves, but it's not a bad idea since they're coming out for the valve job anyways).

 

[malucifer]

Alright sounds good I guess Ill give that a shot, also seriously if it was off time could that be a factor of the compression issue? Thanks again.

 

[jrohner]

If it was off a quite a bit, or if it was off enough to bend valves.

You should have a leak down test done so you can see where your compression is going first. Otherwise, you could end up having the head redone (which you should do anyways) and put it back on and still have the same issue.

It could also be that the head gasket is not sealing at all.