Full Engine Rebuild

[badbluething]

After having gone through the paces with my DSM, It no doubt has been a struggle but I have no plan on letting next to nothing stop me from one day having built a monster DD. Together with my garage we have drawn up a full engine rebuild which will set the base for one day creating a very reliable and fast car. The garage has thrown together a rough quote for me and I thought I'd post it here and get some responses from the DSM community. The listed prices for parts is as available to my shop. It is understood between myself and the garage that any part I can find for a better price I will purchase instead of having my shop do it. So yeah just throw all your thoughts, ideas and suggestions at me. One quote is for a standard rebuild of the 2.0L the other a stroker build.

 

[BogusSVO]

Well first iff I see no break down of the engine machining.

$2000-$2300 for engine R&R ??? Damn I need to go work for them !!

The Bearings/Gaskets/ Pistons look a bit inflated on the price

I would talk to a supporting vendor or two and get a price list on the same parts

just a quick check at EXTREME PSI

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts
Felpro gaskets $142.
here are rods for $345
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts


Now really be honest with yourself, and us.
What is your HP goal? 300? 400? 700?
What about all the supporting mods? Fuel deliverly? and tuning?

With a Monster engine, you will need monster upgrades to suspention and trans. Have you figured your cost up on that?

You are looking at $9000-$12000 on the engine build If you have the cash for that.. Great go for it! Do it to it!

But plan on spending that much more on the rest of the car, or you will just keep busting stock parts.

So are you ready to drop a quick $20000-$25000 on your car real quick?

What power level are you at now? Have you a dyno slip for 300-350 hp right now? Or a time slip for a 10 sec 1/4 mile run?

If not, you may want to back up and rethink your goals and budget.

 

[redyute1]

I say shop around for parts cause off the bat i can see some high prices,bearings and head studs wow.I got acl race bearings from maperformance for under $100.00,that was main and rods too.Then again i dont know about shipping costs and all that .You can probably contact some of the supporting vendors and see if you can email the estimate to them,they might give you better pricing on the parts.

 

[SlowChild3]

I'd do a 2.3 for the same price if not cheaper than your 2.0 list. Your missing alot of reliability parts like... Oil pump, water pump, fluid damper, main studs, main girdle... ect ect.

 

[badbluething]

1. I will be sure to ask for the break down on the engine machining.
2. I have sent my required part lists to a few supporting vendors (waiting on replies)
3. My HP goals with this car are in the 500-700 range. Perhaps unrealistic in the near future but be rest assured this car isn't leaving my hands willingly for a very long time, a life time if I can help it.
4. Supporting mods so far are minimal; 3' turbo back exhaust, Ksport coilovers, ACT Xtreme Street Clutch Kit, MBC
5. I am not looking to produce massive amounts of WHP instantly. That is not by far my expectation. With this engine rebuild I am simply looking to set a strong basis for building a high horse power machine one day.
6. As far as transmission goes the steps I'm considering taking next is welding the center diff.
7. Fuel delivery, tuning, FMIC, a larger turbo are all steps I'm aware of and will be taking. But I am under the impression that I will not be needing to upgrade all these parts instantaneously with the engine rebuild unless I expect immediate HP increases.

 

[seattleshawn]

Pretty much every part listed on there can be purchased cheaper thru the vendors on this site. Do some more shopping around. That price is staggering . Oh and you dont need to run iridium plugs in the 4g63

 

[BogusSVO]

500-700 hp got it.

Look at the Kiggley or Ferrea behive valve springs w/ Ti retainers, these are a topshelp spring package, with either of these spring package you can run about any cam on the market (kelford 272 ect)

Just to feed that monster you will need fuel injectors, wideband o2, AFPR and upgraded fuel pump and DSM link all before you hit the Key for break in.

From what I have read on the board, your HP range can be achived fairly simply
> Forged pistons (wiseco/JE/Manley)
> H Beam rods of your choice
> stock crank ( is your factory crank damaged?)
> Mid sized cams ( HKS/BC/ Delta clones)
> 20G turbo ( SOmeone correct me if I am wrong)
> +1mm OS valves (Engnbldr will be ok at this level)

Then add in the supporting mods I listed above, and you should be knocking at the door of your goal

If you do most the labor yourself, you will save a bundle.
If you take the $2000 that is the engine install labor cost, that should about cover the DSMlink, cams and H-beam rods

Just how much are you able and willing to do?

 

[Fitzi722]

I am in the process of putting my Stage I 2.3l SlowBoy Racing shortblock in my GSX now. Cost me around $3000... I feel like you could get away cheaper than you are, even looking for the performance and quality you're looking for.

 

[badbluething]

I will definitely explore as many options as I can as far as brands go for the different engine internals I will need. Be sure that I will not be blindly purchasing any parts without sifting for the best deals. I will look into the required supporting mods to get my engine turning once built. Unfortunately I am not as mechanically inclined as would be necessary too take on an engine rebuild. If only my parents would let me go to technical school. Anyways apart from the supporting mods you mentioned and the reliability parts mentioned by slowchild3 do you see anything else that I would be missing? or require? Furthermore on average how much does the R&R of the engine cost? What kind of service should I be looking to receive as far as machining goes with a quote like my garage presented of 2gs?

 

[LiquidX]

Agreed, way too much on the cost of items. Take the cam gears for instance, you can get Fidanza adjustable gears for under $200. Why are you going with those cams, you don't even have a turbo listed? Don't use iridium plugs, go with standard NGK BPR#ES plugs.

If you already have an EPROM ECU, send it to ECMLink to get socketed and inspected. You will be paying MUCH less than $160

$220 for a Gates kevlar timing belt
$109 Gates 4G63 Timing Belt (EVO/DSM) - Modern Automotive Performance

Again, no listing on OEM water pump or oil pump. Is a BSE being done?

 

[SlowChild3]

I frown on the turn key guys. For most of us its a hobby not just something cool. Nothing has a better feeling than saying I did this. If I was you id let someone build your motor and you do the install. Just do a lot of labeling and bunch of photos. Decent tools and knowing lefty loosey righty tighty will accomplish alot. Manuals and dsmtuners will do the rest!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[badbluething]

Thankyou liquidx and everyone else for the great cost saving tips. Please keep your thoughts and ideas comning!

 

[eatsleepboostin]

Looking at the parts list, they over charging you man. You can buy most parts on the internet or even here for a lot cheaper. I going through the same rebuild. My GSX is parking now and I'm just gathering parts. So my advise is gather all the parts you need then have them do the machine work and installation. It will save you a lot of money.

 

[3kgt2nv]

for that kind of money it seams like you could buy a "stage 3" block and head and save yourself a good bit of money and have it come from a shop that specializes in dsms.

 

[silicosys4]

I too feel like they are overcharging you. I feel like that every time I see a $40 mobile 1 10w30 oil change though. However, there is something there that not a lot of people are taking into account, a problem I've run into before too.
Most shops want to make money on the parts too. Some shops won't even install parts that you bring in, even if they are brand new. They will cite "future possible warrenty claim issues" but that's b.s., imo, since in my case I'm usually bringing in better quality parts than they would have purchased and installed, sealed in original boxes, with reciepts. The difference is, they make money off of parts purchased through their company. I hate that crap, chances are they won't honor any warranty anyways.

 

[3kgt2nv]

I just added everything up on that list and i came to a total of less than half of what they are charging. plus they are hitting you with 48 hours of labor on the build????? Are they charging you for labor for the machining time also?

From start to finish with triple checking everything it should be no more than 6 to 8 hours of total labor for that.


this list looks like a straight read of msrp and flat rate shop time calculations. hell for 11k ill buy the shit and drive up there and build it for you.

 

[silicosys4]

Man, just saw where you are at, I'm not trying to plug anyone, but drive that biatch down to vancouver, washington, and talk to English Racing. Monkeys nutz sounds like exactly that.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Wow thats one hell of a bill.

 

[badbluething]

Hey guys, here is the updated parts list I'm looking at for my car. Please take a look at it and see if there is anything else I'm missing or you think I should take a look at getting at the same time I do this build. Please ignore the quoted prices as I will be purchasing the parts through supporting vendors of DSMtuners and hopefully the pricing will be substantially cheaper. Please feel free to throw all your comments and suggestions at me, all are welcome!

 

[bryanwheat]

Just buy a long block from jam or mitshgraveyard. You will know that it is right the first time, and you will literally spend half of what that shop is trying to charge you. For 5k from Jam you could get a forged bottom end and a mildly built head.

 

[badbluething]

I've already looked into that; but with shipping and install that will be just over 5k. From estimates from vendors + install prices from my shop I am looking at about the same cost. But, it works out I get more work done and more of a complete build doing the work through my shop. As I said before please do not go off the prices provided as they are not the prices I will be purchasing the parts for.

 

[bryanwheat]

Shouldn't be any more than 200-300 for freight shipping on an assembled engine. Anything more than 1000 labor to install an engine and set it up is like taking a ten incher up the ass with sand paper wrapped around it and no lube.

 

[fwbt]

A few questions for clarification.
1. Are these the size pistons they're going to use prior to evaluating the block?
I'm sure I'd rather evaluate the block and then determine what piston size I may need.

2. Are they planning on socketing your ECU?
socketid [ECMTuning - wiki]
nonepromprocess [ECMTuning - wiki]
That should about cover that, I think....

3. They're going to charge you 2.5 hours for labor on a radiator install? I probably waited less time for mine to ship to me (exaggeration, of course)

4. Why are they going to put a oil cooler on your DSM? All DSM's have a oil cooler of one sort or another. Unless you're looking at a '90 style air cooled system.

These are the things that just seem glaringly obvious to me.

 

[badbluething]

Seems to be a lot of suggestions to simply go with a crate motor. Can anyone post a link to suggested crate motors, I have currently narrowed my thoughts to the crate motors made by DSM graveyard. Any word on their quality? Comparisons to their crate motors to what my potential motor may be if I stuck with the build my shop and I have put together.

 

[V12 Killa]

Never did business with them but check out their not so good reviews.

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