recirculator tube unhooked= faster

[allrice4g63]

so my buddy logged my car the other day and with my recirculator tube hooked up like normal i was running really rich. with my recirculator tube unhooked i was running just about perftect all the way up to redline on 14psi what would cause this? he said i was running like +23 degrees of timing so it wasnt pulling timing anywhere with it unhooked the only thing is it was idling lean. with it hooked up like stock i lose a ton of power like its flooding its self out so any ideas i boost leaked tested like 15 times and i can hold 15psi for 30 sec. so i dunno what it is possible bad mas, iv tryed two with the same results.

 

[the_mork]

What are you using to assess a lean/rich condition? WBo2, NBo2, plugs? What are your fuel trims like? Are you just pulling off the recirc tube or are you blocking the hole that goes into your intake snorkel?

Something is obviously wrong unless your car wasn't fully warmed up for the first run. Having the recirc tube off actually shouldn't affect a WOT run at all if the hole is plugged except with the temporary condition of a fuel dump and slower spool after each shift.

 

[jdodds]

So the butt dyno said you ran faster eh? I doubt that. Our cars run a 9.5 afr from the factory...

 

[ApexVIII]

So the butt dyno said you ran faster eh? I doubt that. Our cars run a 9.5 afr from the factory...

bone stock they dont run 9.5, mine was mid 10's you must have had some boost leaks or something.

when my car is in the 9.5' AFR it studders.

 

[jdodds]

I actually had a hotwired wally at the time. before that I still ran max rich on my aem wideband. There were no boost leaks either.

 

[ApexVIII]

I actually had a hotwired wally at the time. before that I still ran max rich on my aem wideband. There were no boost leaks either.

a 190 or a 255? if it was a 255 and no AFPR then that is why

 

[jdodds]

That is correct sir... Ive gotten smarter since then.

 

[Sam@RRE]

bone stock they dont run 9.5, mine was mid 10's you must have had some boost leaks or something.

when my car is in the 9.5' AFR it studders.

The cars actual fuel maps call for 9.7:1 AFRs bone stock

 

[the_mork]

We generally hit around 10:1 though because even if the number says 9.7 it is really just a number that corresponds to IPW not a fuel ratio. We do that when we attempt to make our tables easy to read. Everyone just gets themselves into more trouble when they tried to read a NBo2 and call their entire pull rich when even a 12+:1 ratio will appear rich and even then a WBo2 will appear incredibly rich to someone less familiar with the behavior of these cars (and they are incredibly rich) so they end up making poor conclusions.

For the record Sam I'm clarifying not arguing, I just don't want you to think I was disagreeing with you.

 

[ApexVIII]

The cars actual fuel maps call for 9.7:1 AFRs bone stock

hrm good to know, im just sayin that my car did not , but many things can factor into that.

 

[Dert]

so my buddy logged my car the other day and with my recirculator tube hooked up like normal i was running really rich. with my recirculator tube unhooked i was running just about perftect all the way up to redline on 14psi what would cause this? he said i was running like +23 degrees of timing so it wasnt pulling timing anywhere with it unhooked the only thing is it was idling lean. with it hooked up like stock i lose a ton of power like its flooding its self out so any ideas i boost leaked tested like 15 times and i can hold 15psi for 30 sec. so i dunno what it is possible bad mas, iv tryed two with the same results.

I actually had the exact same thing with my car. I put my recuirc tube back on because i read how bad it was to have it off and my car felt more sluggish and alot more laggy, I had several friends drive it too and they all said the same thing and they own dsm also,some witrh recuir and some without, I posted a thread on here a while ago and got butt dyno comments I guess me and 5 other people who drove it all own the same butt dyno and you apparently stole it from us because you say the same thing

 

[crimsondragon]

So wait this kid did not clarify if he plugged up the recirc hole on the intake or not. If he didn't then he's just sucking in unmetered air causing lean issue.

 

[the_mork]

I recommend checking the calibration on your butt dyno. If you understood the system you would understand that there is no possible way that removing a recirculation tube on a DSM will make a healthy car go faster. Hell, I'm running speed density so I don't have to worry about venting issues and venting my bov still makes my car slower because I can't re-spool as fast when I hit the throttle after a quick letoff. I only run a vented bov because the blowthrough style intake pipe I have doesn't have a hole for recirculation in it which I'm having a buddy fix for me.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

So wait this kid did not clarify if he plugged up the recirc hole on the intake or not. If he didn't then he's just sucking in unmetered air causing lean issue.

Bingo!

 

[allrice4g63]

no i didnt plug up the hole. i know big dsm no no :-( i was just playing around with things on the logger i didnt take it to no dyno. im just saying with the recirculator tube unhooked it felt way snapper built boost faster pulled harder!!! kinda makes sense to me though ###### leaning the heck outa it causing more power but with it hooked up like stock it smells really rich gasy smell from exhaust!! i did a blt and i can hold 15 psi for 30 seconds so a leak is outa the question. and with the recirculator tube hooked it it like surges going down the high way almost a feeling of pulling timing but im getting no knock and timing is staying good on the logger.

 

[99rtguy]

what did your short term fuel trims look like if you had a logger? bet they were trying to compensate for being lean. of course it felt sluggish when you hooked it back up, it was your computer trying to keep your motor from being fried from you just playing around. thats some expensive playing.

 

[lacroixdp]

You running the vehicle with the dump tube not plugged is similar to hacking the MAF - you are letting unmetered air into the system. That will cause it to run lean, which explains why it is running faster for you. I verified this several years ago on my first DSM with the exact same results you posted... it was definitely faster. It is also not safe - you run the risk of detonation making the car run that lean. I would strongly recommend hooking it back up.

 

[Kastigir]

Lean=Power, Rich=Safer

 

[the_mork]

That is kind of what I thought when I first answered. You'll get the same effect if you take your filter off and it will be safer for the engine. At least the MAF will get a general idea of how much air is going in.

DSMs run from the factory as rich as 10:1 or in some occasions even richer. A much better but still safe AFR is 12.5:1 until spoolup and then a very quick move to around 11.1:1, but what you did was incredibly silly and painful to hear about. Please please please get a proper tuning tool and a wideband. You'll find much greater gains in a proper tune and your car will last past next Wednesday.

 

[Dert]

so how long does it take for your car to be toast from not recuirculating? Mine has been off for over 4 years now and is still pulling harder and stronger than the majority of local dsm'ers and i have alot less mods. My only purpose for not recuircin is my pipe no longer fits with my bov and intake and i never got around to finding one that does. I dont want and ugly flex tube on there either, a custom aluminum pipe would be nice, but there are no shops around here capable of doing it for a decent price and I dont have the tools to make one myself, so anybody know where to get one cheap? Because I'm not a fan of loud bov attention

 

[the_mork]

Without a recirculation pipe? It is less reliable than a common DSM but not by much, mostly you'll be having problems with washed out rings over a long period of time but that is about it.

Without a recirculation pipe and not blocking off the hole in the intake? Not very long since you'll run lean quite often, expect a burned valve or damaged pistons from a lean hot burn.

 

[Dert]

Without a recirculation pipe? It is less reliable than a common DSM but not by much, mostly you'll be having problems with washed out rings over a long period of time but that is about it.

Without a recirculation pipe and not blocking off the hole in the intake? Not very long since you'll run lean quite often, expect a burned valve or damaged pistons from a lean hot burn.

my hole is plugged
aslo, i checked my plugs and they are still clean as a whistle and they have been in for 3 of the 4 years

 

[the_mork]

But the OPs wasn't.

 

[Red97Eclipseboy]

I just want to know how your 2g is running 23 degrees of timing advance at WOT. That's more of a 1g timing value.

 

[allrice4g63]

so heres the update i was borrowing the logger and i plugged the hole reset the computer bye taking the battery cable off!! now as im idling with the hole plugged the logger says the stft1: stay at 0 percent the ltft1: stays at 12 percent. the ltft1 never moves even when i am driving but the stft1 goes from -3 to 3 degrees. my timing with the recirculator hole plugged will drop down to -6 degrees only going up hills and the boost goes to 12lbs at 2600rpms. with the recirculator hole unplugged i stay at 7 degrees and boosts to only 5lbs at 2600rpms going up hills. moral of the story with my hole plugged it smells really gasy REALLY GASY and i have like no power but it boosts. with it unplugged it drives completely fine. i have zero boost leaks new 02 sensors though the 02 sensor does react slow on the logger. any ideas if this makes sense to anybody sorry i would of tryed to put the logs up but the palm wont sync with my computer right now.