Rebuilding tips?

[Risstanomak]

So I'm going to deck my block cause I can't figure any other reason for the bit of white exhaust coming out other than that it warped somewhere I couldn't see when it over heated. I'm going put in new rings and a new clutch. I can't afford to upgrade so any advice on preventive steps I can take while I have it out would be nice. Thanks.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

The biggest thing is to bag-n-tag all fasteners, brackets, etc. Mark hose ends and electrical connectors as to their location. Take notes and photos along the way during dis-assembly, they will prove invaluable later when memory fades during the course of the project.

While the engine is out, now would be a great time to replace ALL the misc. water jumper hoses, heater hoses, vacuum lines and also the fuel filter if it's been a while.

 

[Risstanomak]

Is it common that a machinist needs to have the pistons pulled before he can deck a block? That's the only reason I'm replacing the rings.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Yes. He will need a bare block in order to do the job, and then "vat" (clean) it afterward. Otherwise you run a great risk of having shavings all over the place inside the engine. It will be a good idea to also change the main/rod bearings.

 

[playitlouddsm]

If you switch to ARP hardware for the main cap's then make sure the machinist line hones/bores the mains.

 

[Risstanomak]

I'm not going to use any ARP hardware. Reusing the stock bolts on the crank is ok right? Just don't reuse the head bolts. Also I installed a new MLS can I just clean it and use copper spray on it to reuse it?

 

[FORMONTOYA]

I've never been a fan of re-using critical fasteners.........main, rod, or head.......but that's just me. Since I don't re-use them, I don't know what the manual states.......someone else will have to chime in.

The MLS gasket......I wouldn't want to comment unless I had it in my hand and could look at it...look it over real good before you do and decide if it's worth the risk of taking the head back off.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

All those "critical" bolts, headbolts, mains, and rod bolts are all TTY. That means you should replace them every time you take them off assuming they were torqued properly to begin with.

 

[Risstanomak]

Crap. Ok, I've never seen a kit for just crankshaft bolts. Where can I find replacement for all the ones I'll need? I don't even know what I'll need. Something tells me I'm going to hit a huge snag and miss something. The crankshaft sprocket scares me.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

The crankshaft sprocket scares me.

As it should. Just get the right hardware and work slowly... it'll pop off eventually, but it is a pain if you've never taken one off before.

The only place to get that OEM hardware for the rotating assembly is from the dealer. I bought everything new from them (save for the headbolts) back when I did my rebuild. I think it cost me around $60 or so.

 

[bullettdsm]

So I'm going to deck my block cause I can't figure any other reason for the bit of white exhaust coming out other than that it warped somewhere I couldn't see when it over heated. .

Just because I think I recollect your previous thread, are you sure that the block is warped? Did you actually have the machinist check the head? Before you deck the block, have them check the block. It's just not a common thing for these blocks to warp out.

As for the HG, I'm sure that this is not something you want to hear, but given the history of problems that you are encountering, there is no way that I would re-use that HG. I'm not a big fan of re-using HG's, but I will if I only put a couple o' few miles on the car and something goofy broke. But you already have questions in the combustion area, so I think you would agree that it's the best idea to replace the HG.

MB

 

[Risstanomak]

What would cause a head to become unlevel or warped? I can't figure anything else out. I've replaced the head bolts and torqued them perfectly. That improved to decrease the output of of white exhaust by 95%. Now there's ton of water when before there was none. I know that's common but why now after I replaced the head?

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Heads become warped from overheating, unequal torque (torquing in one pass, it should be done in 3 steps....25%, 50%, 100%), or not following the correct pattern, whether loosening or tightening (had a guy local that forgot to flip the page and torqued in the removal sequence, warped his head). I imagine if the boost was high enough (and I mean really high, 40-50+PSI) could do it.

As far as the water goes..............was the previous gasket the composite type? Switching to the MLS gasket is not as "squishy" as the composite and may allow things to pass easier.

 

[Risstanomak]

It was the stock HG. Allow things to pass through where? The first time I put the head on I reused the head bolts and tons of coolant got through and it was billowing out white exhaust. Now I have new bolts new MLS HG and just a tiny bit of white exhaust and a trickle of constant water. I want to run myself over at this point. Or just buy a new short block and not risk ####ing up the rebuild.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

The composite gasket is more "spongy" (probably a better term) and will fill the voids better than a MLS gasket. You will almost always have to resurface the head and insure the mating surface is super clean in order to use the MLS gasket.

The reason why the first pass didn't work for you is because you reused the old bolts....NEVER REUSE THE BOLTS, THEY'RE TORQUE-TO-YIELD AND CAN NOT BE REUSED ONCE TORQUED PROPERLY (see post #8). I imagine if you went back to the composite gasket and NEW bolts (or ARPs) your problem will be solved, but have the head surface checked before you put it back on, also make sure the mating surfaces are clean.

 

[bullettdsm]

I think you might be learning a painful lesson here (and I sympathize). Got to, got to, got to have the head checked and (if any doubt) decked. Especially with the MLS. I really don't think that your block is bad (though, yes it could be). What did you torque your studs to? On the bright side, IMO, you can reuse the HG and the studs if you only have start up and little driving time on it.

Oh yeah, and don't drive over yourself. You might get coolant on your shirt.

MB

 

[Risstanomak]

Painful. Yes. My left thumb now has a click and snag from redoing this so many times. I'll pull it all off and check again. I'll have a machine shop resurface the head to be safe. I might not have cleaned it well enough after the first super leak from reusing the stock bolts. So I get to buy new bolts again... I got shipped a new composite HG on accident but I gathered MLS is better. If composite is more forgiving then I'll use the one I have. To think about it: if the block was off/warped somewhere new bolts wouldnt make a difference, no?

 

[FORMONTOYA]

To think about it: if the block was off/warped somewhere new bolts wouldnt make a difference, no?

Correct........if the head is warped, the surface is marred enough, or the surface is not cleaned well enough then new bolts will NOT make any difference. And yes, the composite gasket is more forgiving of surface imperfections than the MLS.

The MLS is really for high boost applications, however, the OEM composite gasket has carried people well into the mid/upper 20s without issue.

 

[bullettdsm]

.............and on a lighter note; I just noticed your avatar, FORMONTOYA. Funny stuff

MB

 

[FORMONTOYA]

.............and on a lighter note; I just noticed your avatar, FORMONTOYA. Funny stuff

MB

Come on now................

I guess now I can laugh a little, with some crying mixed in there since it's starting to get cooler here and the car hasn't made it off jack stands yet. The last 3rd of the year is hard for us to find an extra $1200 laying around, especially since the wife totaled out her car shortly afterward.

While I'll admit it, that day I wasn't a good person to be around.............but it's all good now.


If you want to see what happened to cause the bent rim (plus a few other things):


http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234518

 

[bullettdsm]

Crap! I hoped I was laughing WITH you . Kharma or God will even things out (whichever you want to believe in).

That does suck.

MB

 

[TheCykotik1]

i took my car apart at 280,000 and put a permatorque MLS on it. i didnt surface the head or the block and i used the old head bolts. i got good compression across all of them. no leaks, no problems. maybe im just lucky tho, or your head is very warped. i got 293,000 now and still works great.