quick 14b question

[wicked93GS]

I am planning on using 2 14Bs for another twin turbo project of mine...but I need to verify that they will fit with enough space...so I was wondering if someone could measure and tell me real quick what the width of the 14b is at its widest point(I guess this would be the diameter of the compressor housing? unless the exhaust housing is wider which I doubt)

 

[96whgsx]

I'm going out shopping for a 14b. I'll post the results within a few hours, assuming I buy one.

 

[babyman0737]

Twin turbo project? Post up how they'll be configured, I doubt they'll fit without HUGE fabrication. I don't believe twin turbo's are that popular....Oh well, 14b is 8.5" from compressor housing to tip of turbine housing, that and the o2 housing is an additional 3". Hope it helps, I have a ported 14b for sale, PM me for details.

 

[Burnett03]

I am planning on using 2 14Bs for another twin turbo project of mine...but I need to verify that they will fit with enough space...so I was wondering if someone could measure and tell me real quick what the width of the 14b is at its widest point(I guess this would be the diameter of the compressor housing? unless the exhaust housing is wider which I doubt)

1) you are sutpid for even trying this
2) bumping is not allowed here
3) you are stupid for even trying this
4) you are stupid for even trying this
5) you are stupid for even posting about trying this

 

[BaddAssGst]

1) you are sutpid for even trying this
2) bumping is not allowed here
3) you are stupid for even trying this
4) you are stupid for even trying this
5) you are stupid for even posting about trying this

Why get on his case over something like this? It's his project, who cares. He didn't ask how to twin turbo his car, hell he didn't even say it was for a DSM. He asked for a simple measurement, don't be a jackass. Post reported.

 

[Tsi_User]

Post reported.

Ooo damn, you just got served

Instead of arguing about it, why don't we just ask him what car the TT setup is going on?

Here we go: wicked93GS-what car are you building a TT kit for?

 

[Ludachris]

1) you are sutpid for even trying this
2) bumping is not allowed here
3) you are stupid for even trying this
4) you are stupid for even trying this
5) you are stupid for even posting about trying this

Hey Ryan, instead of flaming the guy, explain why it's not a great idea. We don't even know what his project is? It might be something totally unrelated to DSMs. In any case, we all know that a twin 14b turbo setup on a DSM is pretty much pointless. Usually when you go twin turbo, you go with one smaller turbo and one large.

 

[92awddsm]

1) you are sutpid for even trying this
2) bumping is not allowed here
3) you are stupid for even trying this
4) you are stupid for even trying this
5) you are stupid for even posting about trying this

Why are you always such a jackass with all your posts? Maybe thats why you rep says you are an unknown. I vote that you be moved back to rookie status. Ofcourse, post reported.

Anyway, Im also curious as to what your project is. I dont have specs in front of me but I believe(If I remember correctly) the diameter of the 14b comp housing is somewhere around 6.5" not including the wg actuator. You need to add about 2" for that.

 

[tstkl]

Why get on his case over something like this? It's his project, who cares. He didn't ask how to twin turbo his car, hell he didn't even say it was for a DSM. He asked for a simple measurement, don't be a jackass. Post reported.

yea, he didnt say its a dsm, what if its a 3/s, thats a simple ass swap, so dont be so harsh on him....

 

[leet]

1) you are sutpid for even trying this
2) bumping is not allowed here
3) you are stupid for even trying this
4) you are stupid for even trying this
5) you are stupid for even posting about trying this

Why don't you leave the moderating to us? You know, it's our job and all...

Seriously man, just report it it and let us do our job.

Man, that was hard to type.

 

[wicked93GS]

ok, let me clarify my project, its a 3.2L DOHC v6 out of a Taurus SHO, I know fabrication is required, I fabricate stuff all the time so its not a problem, this engine is going into a 1987 Pontiac Fiero and is going to be using a transmission out of a dodge neon(yeah I know, you all think it wont fit, believe me, this isnt a problem for me) the reason I am using twin turbos is that twins will spool faster on an engine at least 3.2L than one large single will, not to mention I can pick up a couple of 14Bs fairly cheap and should be good for 450-500ft lbs of torque. Anyway since this engine is going into a Fiero engine bay I am severly limited on space(and yes I am aware people put DOHC northstar engines into Fieros all the time, but they dont hang turbos off the side) with 8.5" I should have enough space...barely, if I make a couple block hugger manifolds and do some creative mounting, after the turbo manifolds all i have to do is make a transmission adapter plate and make some custom axles....both of which are fairly simple, straightformard fabrication(the turbo manifolds/turbos/intake/exhaust piping will be the most difficult part of the project) I am posting this here because...well you guys know 14B turbos, and as for people who post about how I'm an idiot....what part of ANOTHER PROJECT didnt you understand? But I do thank all of you for the info and will post pictures when I finish the project if you guys want me to, BTW, I can use external wastegates to save as much space as possible if need be

 

[NinjaTech]

I think its a cool idea. Im sure you will be able to cram it all in there. People have fit GenII SBC in those before.

http://www.fierolt1.com/

Be sure to post some picture!

Pat

 

[wicked93GS]

oh yes, some other questions...what is the most effecient boost range for a 14b, I seem to remember it being in the range of 7-16psi or so, which is just what I am looking for for this motor, also, does the 14b fall off any before 7k RPM? how about after? (the SHO engine will be revving to around 7500 before I will set the fuel cut(mainly because theres just not a whole lot of power to be gained any higher than that without some really big cams)) from all the 14B compressor maps I have seen this is a perfect choice for a twin turbo setup for my application, but I want real world comparisons since I never owner a turbo DSM(though I do own an engine swapped turbo Dodge Neon with a 20g) also what RPM do you generally get full boost at on your 2.0L with this turbo?(the 20g on my 2.4L neon kicks in with full boost right at 3500RPM)

 

[NinjaTech]

For most of your questions in your post we probably cant answer, there is not a good way to tell at what RPM those turbos will be good to on that motor without just trying it.. There are to many variables. I had a couple questions for you about what your planning to do. Is this SHO motor been rebuilt with forged internals? Will the bottom end be able to take that much boost without damage? Also, what is the current compression ratio on that motor? From what I can tell they never made a 3.2L v6 in any of the SHO cars, they went right from the 3.0 v6's to the 3.4L v8's in 96. If it really is a 3.0 and not a 3.2 then it looks like its going to have a compression ratio of about 9.8-1, thats getting high enought that it could cause some problems on stock cast or hyper pistons unless you keep the boost low. At high boost only a few knocks would probably kill the motor.

Im not saying its a bad project, im just pointing out a few things you might want to think about. It might be worth chaning to a thicker head gasket (if they make one for that motor) to help lower the compression. If your really going all out, find some low compression forged pistons.

Pat

 

[paranoidTSi]

I will just advise you on one thing, be CAREFUL when purchasing 14b turbos off of ebay. I got a 14b turbo that was ported off of ebay....advertised with "VERY VERY minimal shaft play, within specifications." I knew it was a mistake but I bought it. Got it and I could push the turbine into the housing of the turbo.

 

[wicked93GS]

heh, I am an experience engine builder, the stock block can handle 500HP, but it is getting forged pistons(which btw is where the 3.2L is coming from...its an overbored 3.0L, but the auto SHOs did have a 3.2L option just so you know to increase torque because they cant rev high as easily, that 3.2 is an overbored 3.0 as well, so pretty much I am using forged 3.2L pistons in a 3.0L) anyway, stock compression ratio is 9.8:1, the forged ones(custopm from wiseco) are 10.5:1, yes, I know all about high compression and boost...but people run 15psi all the time on the stock 9.8:1 so its not too much of a stretch to run 15psi on 10.5:1(which is the most it will ever see btw, this with CO2 cooling, nitrous, water/alchohol injection and whatever else I can think of to cool it down, on race gas at that, street will never see more than 10psi) anyway I dont want to get into an argument about high compression and boost, already done that 10 times now with this project, not interested, I have a full standalone I will be running as well that can pull as much timing as I deem necessary, full datalogging capabilites so I can keep an eye on EGTs, Cylinder head Temps, knock counts, wideband o2 to read true AFR, lets suffice it to say I know I can do it....I will start with low boost and race gas and tune bit by bit to get where I need...anyway, the idea here is a sprited street car that spools the turbos so fast as to be unnoticeable, top HP somewhere around 470 in the range of 6700 RPM, peak torque somewhere between 450 and 470 in the range of 4500-5000RPM, the car should be able to pull a 11 second 1/4mile time, I know people are going to b*tch to high heaven about the high compression but I dont care, if you feel you must, go ahead but contribute something useful to help me lower my combustion chamber temps, and I know high compression can be done anyway...there are many hondas running around at 11:1 and running 18+psi....not sure how long they last, but this engine will be the most highly monitored engine ever, and just so you know 15psi is the MAX boost, most of the time it will be 7psi street 10psi strip(with race gas) 15 psi is an eventual goal, not something I plan on doing without much careful datalogging

 

[NinjaTech]

Im not going to say anything about high compression and boost. If your running race gas with the right octane rating you should be alright, especialy if you have forged internals that can take it. Dont take offence to this, but i was just worried you where the steriotypical guy saying that you wanted to do all this and that and not knowing what your really doing. But it sounds like you do know, and im actualy pretty curious to see how this turned out, it should be one hell of a car.

Post picturs!

Pat

 

[yukondoit]

to find out where your effeicient boosting range is at you'll have to get a flow map and do some educated guessing on your VE and a couple of other things to get an idea of what corrected pressure and and lbs/min those compressors will be at. then do some number cruching, theres a couple of sites out there i just use maximum boost.
I guess either by dividing your flow in half and just looking at one compressor or just doubling the flow on the map should get you close. good luck.

 

[wicked93GS]

heh, I used to be that sterotypical guy...3 years ago when I owned my GS...now 4 cars later and 3 built engines down the road I think I am starting to learn a bit, its funny....when you first start out your scared of doing anything at all to your car for fear of breaking it...but the more you do the less your afraid of it, I just spun a rod bearing in a built motor a month or so back(bad choice to keep a crank that had a minor scratch on a rod journal, my fault entirely) now all I do is shrug, replace the parts that need it and rebuild, no big deal to me anymore, its just the time it takes that annoys me now, the work is dead easy, I really like the SHO engine, I think that if it hadnt been discontinued by ford so soon it would be a world class engine by now(like a Supra or Skyline engine)...like I said its capable of 500hp stock(if you force enough air through it) and I know of a couple guys running 700+ HP through it and think it would be a lot more with better aftermarket support, but that will never happen since its a discontinued motor due to being probably the most high maitenance motor ever made(solid lifters require adjustment every 60k miles) and....my favorite part of the motor, is its a V6 that can Rev! up to 9k RPM(though without proper cams theres not much reason to rev beyond 7500 unless you want your water pump to burn out fast) in fact, come to think of it I dont think there is any other V6 as capable of such high RPM(inline six, yes, no other v though) after the Fiero my RWD project will be done, the Neon is my FWD project...already done...as far as engine stuff goes anyway, just need an AWD project now...thinking maybe a 1st gen AWD Talon at about 9:1 compression....if I can find one at a decent price

 

[NinjaTech]

Sorry to burst your bubble about this but there is one v6 that your just not going to top... Yeah, the SHO engine might rev a little quicker, but I dont think its going to do shit against this guy..

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I will agree with you on the entire part of "oh, i spun a bearing.. That sucks.. i know what im doing this weekend" or "crap, that means I have to take that damn H pipe off (my fast car is a camaro)" Its nothing more than an annoyance anymore.

Pat

 

[wicked93GS]

heh, can you say torque? no thanks, dont want to take my car to a frame shop after one launch..., like I said, this motor is just meant to be fun(thinking of doing some road racing with it, since the handling on the Fiero, even stock is top notch, especially for a car almost 20 years old) grand nationals are nice though....not to mention a sight easier to work on that anything I own

 

[NinjaTech]

You have me a little curious about this project now, are you planning to just fab up your own turbo headers or is there a company that makes them? Also, whats your plan for charge cooling? Are you looking to run pipes up to the front of the car and mount a normal air/air intercooler or just just put a air/water cooler in the back?

Pat

 

[wicked93GS]

I will be making my own headers/manifolds since the only forced induction kits for a SHO are superchargers, but the SHO luckily is a good design to begin with...individual flanges for each cylinder, which reduces heat warpage in a turbo application, as for charge cooling I will be using an Air to Air I/C...but not at the front...behind the Fiero engine bay is a trunk about 1' wide, right under the wing, I will cut a hole in the top of the trunk under the wing and stuff the bisggest FMIC I can find in the trunk facing upwards, I will then block off the back part of the wing, creating a scoop of sorts, scooping air down into the trunk, to release the air I will probably be cutting holes or vents of some type in the trunk itself and the rear bumper, making it look similar to those crappy looking diffusers, this setup should be fairly low profile and not be noticeable unless either someone really knows Fieros, or they stare at it a long time, also having the advantage of not having to route 20 feet of piping and blocking the radiator with a conventional FMIC...also I will use a CO2 sprayer for further cooling, maybe the entire Cyr02 system