Questions for Justin...

[RedTsi_PR]

Hey Justin,guys!!

I currently have a TD06H "20G" with a 35r compressor wheel, went on Tuesday to dyno it to see how much it makes. Final run was 500.3 at 31 pounds. I know that the 35r compressor wheel can handle that type of boost levels but how much can the TD06Hnturbine handle? Turbo is on a 8cm turbine housing.

Here's the graph

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[JusMX141]

You built an old-school DSM Red.

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They seem to work well, but I'd definitely monitor backpressure and EGT's if you push it much further.

 

[Seamus]

Yea I'd look into results for an old school red to see how far that wxhaust setup can go. That turbo is probably the the highest hp levels you'll readily find for a td06h turbine in a dsm style housing. There may be some custom turbos out there but the old red is the baddest off the shelf td06h turbo I know of.

 

[RedTsi_PR]

Thank guys!! Also i have laying around a 10cm Turbine housing from a i think hahn S20G. What do you think that mated to my turbo? Would be an upgrade over the 8cm?

 

[Seamus]

Depending on what turbine wheel a s20g has, you may need to get that housing cut for the 06h.

 

[RedTsi_PR]

It has a td05h but what if i send it to machine fit my td06h?

 

[Seamus]

Then it will work!

Seriously though, You'd have a t3 based reddish type turbo at that point. Maybe it would be an orange. It would be a huge improvement on pump gas and make more power on ethanol too. If you had a 20g wheel it would probably not be worth the move from 8cm with an 06h, since you should be able to max out a 20g on that setup. But the 60-1 or whatever you are using will benefit. I'm sure jusmx or some of the FP guys could help you further. I only have used the 06h with Mhi cast 20g. Those guys have worked on turbos that are really working the 06h turbine.

 

[pagosa dsm]

Not sure- I have zero experience with how turbos react to high altitudes as it never goes above 2500-3000ft around here. My suggestion came from my experience with others having surge issues using 50+ lb/min turbos on stock cams. However, I'm still confused as to how a surge-ported HX35 is surging.

After almost 2 years with this problem, I was just 1 week from putting on the old evo 3 turbo. I read here and then on the GN web sights about installing a Tornado in the intake pipe to eliminate turbo surge . Well it worked. The turbo surge is gone. I notice the same spool and total boost was still there. The butt dyno before boost the torque seemed a little better. I have a 3" intake pipe with the Tornado , I was panning on building a 3 1/2 intake pipe soon.
Rick

 

[Seamus]

Hmm. Seeing as how it has no effect on how quickly the turbo spools,It would seem that the only way this could stop surging would be to decrease the airflow as the turbo spools. The fact that it worked for you speaks volumes about the performance enhancing capabilities or the "tornado". I'm glad you solved your issue.

But are you sure that you don't have one of those holset covers that have the ported inlet casting, but it's not actually machined through at the inlet? I've seen an hx35 variant that was like this.

 

[JusMX141]

Thank guys!! Also i have laying around a 10cm Turbine housing from a i think hahn S20G. What do you think that mated to my turbo? Would be an upgrade over the 8cm?

It would need to be machined for the TD06H turbine.

I'm sure it would add turbine flow, but you'd need a T3 manifold to take full advantage of it. Keep in mind the FP Old-School DSM Red has made over 600whp with an 8cm2 DSM bolt-on turbine housing, so what you're thinking about doing wouldn't likely be worth the time and money invested.

 

[Kyle_T]

Im looking for a turbo upgrade to make around 300hp. Im torn between having my 14b converted to a td05 20g or getting an evoIII 16g. How much slower will the tdo5 20g spool compared to the evoIII 16g? I also really want to eliminate the j-pipe. I would get the td06 comp cover for the 20g or I have seen some other comp covers available for the 16g also.

Which one will be better for a street car? Stock 2.0, 93 pump.

 

[JusMX141]

If your goal is to simply make 300hp and never go any further, the Evo III 16G is definitely what you're looking for. If you think one day you may way more, you may as well do the 20G now and never need to upgrade down the road. The 20G will add a few hundred rpms of lag, hitting full boost in the 3800 range in 3rd gear on flat ground with stock cams; 3500-3600 with the Evo III 16G.

Also, forget converting a 14B into anything useful...the cost to do it properly is such that you're better-off buying a used 20G and having it rebuilt. The reason being that literally everything on a 14B is undersized and needs replaced with the exception of the turbine wheel (if it's undamaged), center housing (which will need machined anyway), and wastegate actuator. The compressor inlet is too small to do anything useful with the cover, and the 6cm2 turbine housing will never let a 20G breathe to it's fullest potential.

 

[Kyle_T]

Yea right around 300 since Im still on the stock block. Is it also true that the 16g hits alot harder into boost than the td05 20g? Ive heard the 20g has alot more of a linear power curve.

 

[JusMX141]

That depends on the turbine wheel. I don't think anything hits harder than a TD05H 20G, but if you change it to a TD06H turbine it smooths the torque curve right out.

 

[Kyle_T]

Ah alright. Well will the 20g be efficient around 300hp or do you think the 16g will be a better option? Im not that concerned about the slightly slower spool.

 

[JusMX141]

Depends on what your supporting mods are like and what boost level you want to run to get it done, but I've seen examples where knockoff 16G's have made more than 300hp....so a MHI turbo should be able to do it with ease.

 

[Kyle_T]

Good point. Have you tried out any downfiring compressor covers for the tdo5 16g? I know the subaru compressor cover fits. I was doing some searching and found this website: KINUGAWA TURBO Online shopping Cart - Compressor Housing Not sure if its a reliable source or not, but they seem to have a bunch of options.

Turbo Compressor Housing 3" TD05 / TD06 Fit 16G / 18G / 20G / 60-1 / 25G compressor wheel

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It shows an option for 16g. Does that mean it will fit any 16g wheel?

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Justin, in your experience are the vband outlet of the garrett .82 or .85 turbine housings in the same spot as the BEP .70 besides the fact the garrett looks like it extends two inches, i made a side exit pipe for the garrett but used the holset .

 

[JusMX141]

Good point. Have you tried out any downfiring compressor covers for the tdo5 16g? I know the subaru compressor cover fits. I was doing some searching and found this website

It shows an option for 16g. Does that mean it will fit any 16g wheel?

Nope, just the Big 16G / Evo III 16G. If there's a cover available out there, I've probably serviced a turbo that had it installed.

Justin, in your experience are the vband outlet of the garrett .82 or .85 turbine housings in the same spot as the BEP .70 besides the fact the garrett looks like it extends two inches, i made a side exit pipe for the garrett but used the holset .

I don't think you can bank on any housing's outlet being in the exact same spot when switching brands like that. It can be close, but sometimes close may as well be a mile away.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I hVe a few inches of wiggle room in all directions. I mean, same manifold and all.

 

[edged1g]

Justin,

I rebuilt a 14b turbo that was leaking oil that had shaft play, both side to side and in/out. After disassembly and cleanup, it went back together without a problem. Bearings were tight, no more shaft play. However, after the re-install, it still leaked oil pretty bad. Taking it apart again showed the seals 'clicked' into place, but didn't seem very hard to get to lock in. What can be done in this case? Oversized seals?

 

[JusMX141]

Throw it away and get another 14B.

Sounds like the shaft play was so excessive that the sealing ring surface in the housing got damaged...and there's nothing you can do to fix that on a turbo that's worth $100-$125 in good used condition.


You can try to put just the seal itself into the center housing and check the end gap much like checking ring end gap in a cylinder bore. If it's tight, you have some other problem that isn't the turbo's fault....like a kinked oil drain, poor crankcase ventilation, etc.

 

[edged1g]

Throw it away and get another 14B.

Sounds like the shaft play was so excessive that the sealing ring surface in the housing got damaged...and there's nothing you can do to fix that on a turbo that's worth $100-$125 in good used condition.


You can try to put just the seal itself into the center housing and check the end gap much like checking ring end gap in a cylinder bore. If it's tight, you have some other problem that isn't the turbo's fault....like a kinked oil drain, poor crankcase ventilation, etc.

Is there a spec for the seal end gap? I checked my oil drain, it was slightly kinked, but i pored oil through it to test and it flowed. Could crankcase pressure cause this even at idle? It was pouring oil just sitting at idle.

 

[JusMX141]

We'll say less than .010" for just the sake of throwing a number out there, but it should literally be about .002-.004" and no larger before going to a stagger-gap sealing ring if you don't want to lose a considerable amount of crankcase pressure through the gap under vacuum. If it's greater than .010", you need a new center housing.

 

[Breezio69]

I picked up a small h1c (44/72) turbo for about the cost of two cases of beer. I was going through it and this thing is clean and tight. My question is this, can I upgrade the compressor side to a 56 or 60mm by replacing the backing plate, wheel, and compressor cover?

From what I read on my own, is all of the h1c turbos use the same length turbine shaft, and have the same height compressor wheel. I just need reassurance before I spend a few bucks on it. I don't want crazy numbers, I need a little bit laggier turbo being fwd, the 16g pumping out 20+ psi breaks the tires loose very quickly. Ill probably run between 20-25psi on it.

Thanks for any help!

Edit:

Also, I have sourced a backing plate and comp wheel for around $100 for both genuine holset. The only thing I can't find is a cover, but I'm sure that won't be an issue if I were to actually look for one. If I found a cover for even $75 I'd be in this thing less than $250, which I could probably get back by selling my b16g. I'd look for another turbo right off the bat, but any holsets other than this one typically don't go lower than $400-$500 locally. So making a hybrid is still cheaper, if its possible.

Thanks again!