Prep work for chasing 16G records

[Nate Crisman]

I love the assend of eagles dont you? What made you go with heavy eagles for this build?

Eagle Talon? or Eagle Rods?

Both cases..."it's what I had" the eagle rods were "salvaged" from another motor that had assembly issues and I wouldn't sell them to a customer not knowing if they were good or not. That's how I build my car every time...using leftovers from partouts. I'd never actually spend money to buy new connecting rods At this power level, I think stock rods would have been fine, but I had the eagles at my disposal, so why not. As I said before, the entire bottom end is build on salvage from 3 different blown up engines. Block & pistons from one motor, crank & front case from a second, Rods & ARP hardware from a third motor. Gaskets and bearings are the only new parts, everything else is leftover junk that I couldn't really sell. One piston is baddly scuffed and smeared with bearing material. One rod has a messed up wrist pin bushing.

F-it...slap it together and cross fingers!

On a side note: The engine is completely together on a stand. I picked up my trans from a buddy who welded a crack in the bellhousing. Tonight I have 2 buddies coming over to help me drop in the engine and bolt up the transmission. Will post some pics of tonight's progress.


As of this morning:

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[SBstar]

Looks good nate, slap it in and lets go racing!

 

[Below Ambient]

props to you Nate... Love the grassroots engineering and parts scavenging! If anyone can deliver results it should be you!

 

[Nate Crisman]

Engine & trans went in tonight without any major hassles (other than getting the converter seated). Im still not 100% sure the front and rear engine mount brackets are the correct ones, the whole assembly seems to be about 3/4" too far forward towards the radiator which is stressing the trans and Tbelt mounts and the top of the auto trans is just barely touching the frame rail. Front bracket is #346 rear is #194

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Also goofed around with the pedal assembly since I have not found the automatic specific one yet. I was able to cut the tube connecting the two sides....in the next pic the brake pedal on the left is all Im going to use..it's 5.4lb. The clutch pedal parts were 6.6lb on the right side...all scrap.

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[larrykoren]

Well my numbers are different. I dont have them off hand but I dont recognize either of them. I think the front is 506. Do you have the tranny mount from an auto? When I tried to use a manual one in the past to test fit prothanes it tweaked it bad and will not work I had trouble getting the prothanes to fit all the way around in the auto without stressing but it all worked out. I will double check the numbers for you man. My car was originally an auto.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Well my numbers are different. I dont have them off hand but I dont recognize either of them. I think the front is 506. Do you have the tranny mount from an auto? When I tried to use a manual one in the past to test fit prothanes it tweaked it bad and will not work I had trouble getting the prothanes to fit all the way around in the auto without stressing but it all worked out. I will double check the numbers for you man. My car was originally an auto.

Im using the trans mount (all pieces) from the auto car...the manual trans version won't even bolt on, it's not the same shape at all. no choice but to use the correct auto part.

The parts car I bought to source my Auto swap from was unfortunately molested by a previous owner. It looked mostly stock when I bought it, but after disassembly I found the engine came from a manual trans car as the crank had the dowel pin that aligns a flywheel...GROUND FLUSH. hackjob! I ended up using the front mount bracket from that car...#346 I believe. #344 is GVR4, #347 is 5sp manual AWD 1G DSM. Then the rear mount wasn't long enough (the car had a #195 DSM 5sp AWD rear bracket with the bolt missing!). I sourced a different #194 rear bracket from a NJDSM guy.

Now....#346 and #194 might not be the correct ones for 1G AWD Automatic, and I bet they aren't since things don't look kosher on my car. I bet I have some conglomeration of 1G FWD/1G AWD Auto parts or something.

I'd really really really appriciate it if you could take a look with a flashlight and tell me what the #'s stamped on your front and rear brackets are.

AWD Front
MT 347 (GVR4 344)
AT 506

AWD Rear
MT 195 (GVR4 same)
AT 793

FWD Front
MT 346 (NT 345) (All Colts 742)
AT 595

FWD Rear
MT 194 (NT 193) (Colt Turbo 497)
AT 648

found online. seems I have MT FWD brackets...totally wrong. lovely!

 

[nitrouskris]

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[larrykoren]

Front is 506
Rear is 793B

 

[Nate Crisman]

Ok, seems I have 1G MT FWD brackets and need to go searching for a set of 1G AWD Auto brackets. damn. At least I have the #'s to go by now.

Taking tonight off from working on the car, hopefully will make some serious progress tomorrow day/night. I really want to get the wiring finished up and the interior completed. decided to ditch the "kiggly-manumatic" wiring and go to the simple setup of 2 toggle switches.

Still need to find a set of 15" wheels and a Vac pump for the brakes. Totally forgot about the pump!

 

[Steve93Talon]

I think the front crossmember is different too on 1g awds between stick and auto cars.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Some more progress, but unfortunately Im going to have to push off the test & tune until next weekend at the earliest. I was filling fluids today and found water dripping out of the timing case under the crank pulley. Water pump gasket must have ripped or folded over when I put the pump on. I'v built untold 4G63's over the last 1.5 decades, this is a first for me.

Switch panel is done. I have to finish up wiring the rest of the switches to the harness then set the dash & gauge cluster down.

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Engine bay is getting close to complete. The E3 intake manifold changed the ic pipe fitment, so the turbo outlet pipe is "at the welded" being changed. Otherwise it was pretty much ready to go.

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Interior still needs the last bit of wiring hooked up then the interior re-assembled. Tonight Im going to pick up aluminum door skins.

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[larrykoren]

Looking good man. That was the same setup for fuel I was going to do and then I decided I needed to drive 70 miles each way to the track and didnt have a trailer. Is there any way you can take pictures of how you mounted the cell and ran the feed line to the pump. Does it matter if that pump is above the cell itself? I thought some can be and some cannot, I dont know.

I am going tomorrow to test and tune and I am going to see if i can improve at all. I did more weight reduction and got a 0-15psi tire pressure gauge to make sure the tires are even this time. I also welded the flapper shut and I welded the wastegate passage on my o2 housing shut. I actually shimmed the gate too and it already doesnt have a vacuum line to it. SO with the combo if those 4 things I am planning on holding more boost and getting better times.

My car looks a lot like yours now. I bought a odyssey pc680 battery (14.8lbs, old was 38) So 23 lbs off there.
I got rid of extra wiring by tracing it all back and got 10 lbs out.
I got rid of my whole dash, center console, heater core, blower motor, a/c evap, bunch of brackets, ect.
I took off the spoiler
I hacked off the metal under my hatch.
I took more tar off and the thick sound deadener off the firewall.
I took the large bracket that holds the power steering pump on and that bolts to the drivers motor mount.
I cut the drivers motor mount down (cut L part off).
I took off the drivers side metal radiator fan
I cut that wastegate tube off

SO I think I am under 2400 w/o driver now. I was 2487 after the slicks and I think I took off a good amount of stuff, although it might not be a full 87lbs...

I got to try to stay competitive with the dst class that is looking like it is going to be competative and fun this year.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Dst class is going to be awesome! Can't wait to get out and test. Hopefully next weekend.

I bought a set of 9.7lb volk wheels, just waiting on a set of 4lug hubs to mount them. Gotta fix the water pump leak, finish wiring & interior, and it should run.

Also bought another shell that has a lexan&FG hatch...guess I'll use it.

 

[Nate Crisman]

The hatch ended up being a stock steel hatch from a 94 Talon AWD that simply had a lexan window professionally installed. An ideal direct comparison to put to bed speculation on glass vs lexan weight loss:

Two identical hatches both with no wiring, no wing, no wiper assembly, no lights, no brackets, no latch.
OEM 1G hatch w/ glass: 46lb
OEM 1G hatch w/ lexan: 33lb

The lexan rear hatch window is 1/8" thick with two thin top/bottom aluminum braces. silicone sealing the edges for water tightness and rivets holding it down. Lexan hatch window saves 13lb.

Pic of the hatch before I pulled it off the original car:

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[phunny]

^^^Nice find

 

[wdawson4]

Wow this thing is gunna fly

 

[SBstar]

Awesome! Thanks for the info Nate! And good find on the hatch.

 

[DSMxJB]

This is awesome. I really want to see the results. Good luck!

 

[Nate Crisman]

Wow this thing is gunna fly

When it runs in the 9's, then Im likely going to swap into this shell I just bought on monday (where the lexan hatch came from). It's a full NHRA certifiable cage that's good for 8.50s. Window net, parachute mount, and some tube frame work are already done. The front tube frame work needs to be finished and I'd like to connect the front tube/shock towers to the dash bar.

I'd imagine this chassis would be a solid 150lb lighter than my current one as someone has spent serious effort into removing the inner layer of unibody sheetmetal. Plus its legal to go 9's. My current yellow 1g has a heavy mild steel rollbar that's only good to 10.0 and 135mph.

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[domthebomb11208]

whats the rules on the dst class?

 

[SBstar]

whats the rules on the dst class?

Stock appearing turbo and no nitrous.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I've been following this thread but it's time to subscribe. Best of luck Nate!

 

[larrykoren]

Is that cage all chromoly? How much you get it for and where? I called about a 8 point chromoly cage (8.50 -9.99) around ohio. One said 4500 and one said between 2800-3000. I about laughed and hung up. I should have bought a rolling chassis before I gutted my pristine car if its pretty cheap to buy something like this.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Is that cage all chromoly? How much you get it for and where? I called about a 8 point chromoly cage (8.50 -9.99) around ohio. One said 4500 and one said between 2800-3000. I about laughed and hung up. I should have bought a rolling chassis before I gutted my pristine car if its pretty cheap to buy something like this.

I paid less than $1k for the shell, but the bill from chassis shop was over $3300 for the cage install. It's all chromoly and done by MPH chassis shop in Ct. Same exact cage as in Raif's blue 1g...he had both cages done at the same time but never built the black car to run. I picked it up on Ebay in a poorly advertized auction that ended at a weird time on mid-day saturday. IMHO had he tried to sell the car outright on DSM forums, he should have been able to get more than double what the Ebay auction went to since there were only 2 bidders.

Before you "laugh and hang up", you should know that TIG welding a cage that has to pass NHRA certification is no easy job. NHRA has rules for damn near everything...angle of bars, thickness of welds, maximum and minimum distances for nearly every connection and bar in relation to the driver. It's not uncommon for even expert fabricators to have the NHRA tech reject professional work because a door bar is not at the required angle or a single weld doesn't have complete penetration. Not to mention the amount of hours that go into measuring every bar exactly correct and accounting for the fishmouth of each pipe end. It seems to me installing a rollcage correctly isn't a job to be trifled with, hence the going rate is a couple thousand dollars. BTW, I think I paid around $400 for the pre-bent materials for my mild steel rollbar back in 1999 and paid almost $400 to have it fitted and welded in. More than a decade ago the price was well over a grand for a shop to do it start to finish for just a basic 6pt rollbar.


This is also something that your supposed to be trusting to save your life, I'd hate to skimp and regret it later (or rather your family regrets your skimping)

 

[larrykoren]

Ya man I understand. I just thought of it this way at the time I called. A pre bent 8 point cage I found is 300 bucks for mild steel. And I have a couple guys that I am almost certain can do the job of welding and fitting for only a couple hundred dollars as a favor. I know that it can be MIG if mild steel. They do have a TIG too. I really want a chromoly for weight but I was thinking that for the 2-3k that I save by mild steel, I could do engine mods to make up that extra weight or even buy carbon fiber parts with that much money saved (hood, hatch, doors, or lexan).

However, if I do come across the money I still might take the guy up on the 2800 dollar offer but I will not pay 4500 no matter what. The guy that said 2800 said 1800 for a roll bar to 10.00. I would have no problem paying that much if I had a job but since I am still in school I am broke and this is a major budget build. And I only laughed at the guy that said 4500 because they are so over priced for Everything.

Good find on the car.