Prep work for chasing 16G records

[Nate Crisman]

Yea the car should be lighter than mine. I was wondering how much if the race weight would still be less, ie how much you weigh. I am 170, and I bet you still might be lighter overall with the other things.

What mixture of meth are you going to run? I have thought about mixing methanol or even going straight. How has it worked for you? Is it worth it? What mix have you had the best results with?

Im currently pretty fat: 240lb, but Iv been running and riding bicycle in order to lose weight. I should be about 190-195 in optimal shape and Iv gotten down to that weight twice in the last 7 years, but gained it all back. (birth of second kid and wife needing surgery w/ broke leg...both times got me off my excercise schedule and I fell off the wagon)

Anyway, as soon as the car is together and driveable, I think Im going to trailer it to the next town and roll it up on the scale at the scrapyard I sell parted out shells to. It rounds off to nearest 10lb, but it should be reasonably accurate. Island doesn't have a scale, but Etown does...just sucks that Etown is 2 hours away and I rarely go there.

Methanol:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/380800-dsmpartout-1g-chemistry-night-island-dragway.html

That thread has all my info from when I did the meth experiment. in a nutshell, Iv only run a mixture of 38% methanol to 62% E85 so far and it showed a gain of about 1tenth and 2mph BUT I have no data to say that going to a higher concentration of methanol will help or by how much. I would assume it would, but I can't confirm.

My plan for this year is to get the car setup and tuned well over the course of a few track days. Im running out of time though, it's mid may and haven't run yet! It would take me likely 4-5 days at the track to get solid data on my list. It's hard to test more than one thing on a single day and get reliable info.

1. straight E85 - turbo only
2. add the nitrous kit @ 125hp on E85
3. shut the nitrous off and run it on methanol/E85 at a simple 50/50 mix.
4. run it on straight methanol.
5. remove the intercooler and replace with straight pipe
6. turn the nitrous back on w/ straight meth.

I'd like to collect some data on methanol and nitrous's effect on performance so I can best judge if the meth is worth the hassle. It does seem to really cause problems with corrosion, as I would get leaks out of damn near every AN fitting during the course of a night at the track when running only 38% methanol. Id carry a 11/32 wrench in my pocket all night as we'd constantly be tightening -6 fittings when they start dripping. pita.

Looks like I have a choice to make, as I found my E3 16g is on the way out. I pulled the comp housing off today in order to properly clock it for ic pipe fitment and noticed that the comp wheel has touched the housing. Comp wheel is a little "jagged" on the edges and the housing has a few lines ground in. No idea how much power/boost/flow was lost to the worn compressor side last year. Also no idea how long it would last to try using it and Im afraid of busting up the nice 2g head if any comp wheel parts go through it.

So...I have a 14b cartridge that feels to be in great shape with no play and no marks on the comp housing. Im thinking of starting out 2011 on a 14b and trying for those 2 records first while hunting down a cost effective E3 16g.

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[larrykoren]

I have a 14b too and was thinking about this. . I cant wait to see what the 14b can do.

 

[Nate Crisman]

I just put a fresh comrpessor housing oring on an older 14b...cleaned it up, ground off that little pin that aligns the comp housing to the cartridge, and clocked it. 14B is officially "on the car" now.

Also for search: If anyone ever converts a 90-91 or FWD car to 4lug hub/wheel and wants to retain the single piston small/light front brakes.......Galant GSX AWD Non-turbo front brake rotors are what you need. cost me $114 from Napa for 4 new 4-lug brake rotors. I didn't want to chance mis-alignment or cracking a hat by drilling out a set of 5lug rotors to work on the 4lug pattern.

I have a 14b too and was thinking about this. . I cant wait to see what the 14b can do.

I was looking over logs/posts from the last time I ran a 14b on my Galant VR4...3100lb 5speed car on racegas and a stock motor/cams: 12.0 @ 113 was the best I got out of it. It was dropping boost and seemed to have a hard time staying over 20psi. BUT...the turbo literally snapped the shaft on the way home after the last track day, so dead turbo could have hurt the performance.

Will hopefully see this weekend what it does in a 2400lb awd automatic.

 

[Project91Tsi]

First off, this is a crazy build, I love it. Second, thanks for pushing the limits of what we consider an "entry level" turbo. I can completely understand wanting the record, but am unwilling to gut every bit of the car, but I love seeing someone who wants to. It's nice to know what the turbo sitting on my car is capable of if I simply decided to get rid of everything not needed. Holding a title is worth a lot more than having a car a little bit faster, just like so many others. Hope you reach your goals and make somebody else decide, "that is what I want to beat"

 

[Nate Crisman]

Im going to try and finish up the wiring to the switches & gauges today in order to make shakedown passes at Island tomorrow. I'v got a 14b turbo on the car w/ the E3 7cm housing. The nitrous kit is fully operational. Planning to run straight E85. Most likely make 2-3 shakedown runs to tune in the fuel and maybe attempt to make a pass with the nitrous engaged

 

[Silver99OZ]

Im going to try and finish up the wiring to the switches & gauges today in order to make shakedown passes at Island tomorrow. I'v got a 14b turbo on the car w/ the E3 7cm housing. The nitrous kit is fully operational. Planning to run straight E85. Most likely make 2-3 shakedown runs to tune in the fuel and maybe attempt to make a pass with the nitrous engaged

Any chance you could make a video of this for us.

 

[Nate Crisman]

I'll likely have both in and out of car video and possibly a go-pro vid from exterior window again.

Everything didn't work out as well as I'd hoped today: I was setting the fuel pressure by jumpering the fuel pump relay and found out I have -6 SS fuel lines that are all rotted through. Fuel leaking out of the lines spraying right through the braid every few inches. The line between the pump and rail must have 15 holes in it, looked like a garden sprinkler! Seems those lines must not have been "methanol compatable" rubber inner hose and even though the system was pickled with E85, drained, removed, and sat on a shelf all winter....the methanol ate the lines up. They came out of a parts car, so I don't know what brand or quality hose it was.

So..that pretty much put the end to any thoughts of running tomorrow, as I don't have enough -6 hose to make all new lines. Oh well. I'll get the wiring finished up and the car running for next weekend I guess. If I can find/borrow an exhaust, maybe I could run on friday night instead of sunday.

Here's a few pics of where Im at:

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[pantherballhp]

dang it man that sucks! I wanted to see what this thing was gonna do. Hope ya get it fixed soon. Those wheels look sick btw

 

[Nate Crisman]

Not a huge deal, I'll get the car finished up this week and ready to hit the track Friday or Sunday. 5 more days isn't going to kill me from anticipation. Hahah

 

[pantherballhp]

Wish my downtime was only a week. Haha I'm looking at a month or more to get my car to the track for the first time

 

[Pauls99Gst]

Whats going on man what are some of the updates?

 

[Nate Crisman]

I ended up having a disaster of a season: blew up the top end every time out at the track. I'd make 2-3 passes on the 14b alone, everything would go well. Then I would turn the nitrous kit on and blow up the head gasket and head on the first attempt at a pass.

First time It blew up was due to the van line going to the map sensor & BOV....it ripped down the seam and caused low map sensor reading...detonated bad enough to break a spark plug on cal #2 which munched up exhaust valves.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BJf9q5xx_uI?hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


I then slapped a stock 2g head/cams on and went back in July: same thing. Cy #3 torched the exhaust valves due to an extreme lean condition.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/o3BAPCjPBW0?hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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I then lapped the valves in on my original head and got it to seal well enough to try again. The car ended up running 11.3 @ 116 on a 1.46 with the 14b turbo on the second pass, but then Cyl #3 blew up again on the first nitrous pass. HARDCORE head gasket fail, torched through the deck surfaces of both head and block, and broke the spark plug again...munching the valves on #3 this time.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bN5vlawwXHE?hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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I tore the car apart and found the fuel jet on the #3 cyl's nitrous fogger was completely plugged with debris, thus the catastrophic lean condition & detonation in that cyl the last two times out. the block is repairable with a deck surface cut, but both cyl heads are scrap aluminum along with the valves and pistons.

Funny, the title of this thread is 16g record chasing, I never even got to make a record run with the 14b, let along put the 16g on and work towards those.


so 2012's plan:

• Swapping to a different shell. I picked one up that already has a chromoly cage for 9's, chute mount, ect. The shell has more extreme cutting and should be maybe 50-60lb lighter than my current unibody.
• Contemplating a live rear axle w/ ladder bar for the weight loss, traction, and reliability.
• Front end is going to be tube bar from side engine mount spots forward for more weight loss.
• Building another engine: 10.5:1 - 2.0L. possibly hard block fill. 2G head w/ porting and SS valves.
• Refreshing the auto trans and upgrading the OD clutch pack. Adding electronics to have DSMlink shift it.
• Re-doing the fuel system with new lines/fittings/filters and layout. Utmost care in cleanliness!!!!
• Nitrous system is going to be dry - single port. fuel tuned by the DSMlink secondary maps. No more fuel jets to clog!
• I sent the 1650 injectors back to be cleaned & flow tested....all good there.
• Alt relocation and making a new o2 housing to put the exhaust out the bumper side.

As for turbo and goals: I'd really like to put the 14b back on and try to get the 10.61 record w/ nitrous. finish what I started at least! After that, I guess I'll have to decide if I want to put the E3 16g on (have a brand new one here waiting) or if I want to go right up to something bigger and make use of the NHRA certified cage and run in the mid 9's. I guess I'll figure it out as I go along, since this years plans were somewhat worthless.

 

[Silver99OZ]

Sorry to hear that you had such a bad season, the car looked really good. I guess working out all the bugs is part of building a race car. Hopefully you will have better luck next year after building the new car. By the way I am super jealous of that shell you picked up, I will be building my first drag car next year, so I will be hunting around for a shell/car this time next year.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Yup, there is always next year. Many of the changes Im planning for winter revolve around eliminating the issues I had this year in hopes of preventing those problems.

 

[Pauls99Gst]

How bad are the pistons on your original block? is it just # 3cylinder with damage from the valves? I feel like you dont need to redue everything just the neccessary things, the swapping of the shell and going to the single dry is a good idea, but u might want to reconsider and just run it wet just so it will be an easyer setup to tune once you do non sprayed passes, then to your sprayed runs u wont have to change the tune. just going back to the basics is what helps. an what about O-ringing the block? im suprised you had as many problems with your headgasket. either way you definitely will break deep into the 10s with the 16g no spray

 

[Nate Crisman]

The short block is a "frankenstein" of junk parts already. The pistons & block came out of a parts car that spun a rod bearing. The #1 piston was all smeared with bearing material and the cyl wall was scuffed up, so I stuck the #1 piston in the #4 hole & vice versa. Took a ball hone to the cyl wall, but reused the rings. It likely has iffy ring seal. All the pistons have nicks/dents from spark plug porcelain going through the motor since it seems when the plugs break from detonation, the parts end up blown back inside the intake manifold and distributed to the other cyl. basically, all the pistons are beat up with minor damage.

At this point, if Im going to take it down to bare block and pay for machine work to deck the head surface, it would be stupid to not buy a new set of pistons and bore the block out another .020. I can go up compression to 10.5:1 and make sure the ring seal is good at the same time. The cost in gaskets/machine shop/assembly labor just makes putting in new pistons a smart move over winter.

I have to build a new head anyway, as the last two were torched. Need to break down the first one and get all the aftermarket valve train out and see if the SS valves can be salvaged by cutting. IMHO the HG has leaked in the same spots on the front side of #2 and #3 every time with 2 different heads and 2 different gaskets. Leads me to believe the block was never totally flat from the start. New head studs and two freshly cut deck surfaces should help keep the hg sealed up next season. Also not running it stupid lean and into detonation should keep the HG in check too. Oringing the block kinda sucks, because every time you take the head off/on the oring has to be redone. I don't really think I'll have the same HG problems once the fuel issue is fixed and the engine is assembled with flat deck surfaces and a new gasket. (vs re-using old gaskets)

The whole point of swapping to a single fogger is that it is dry. The most important thing is fuel supply, and of secondary importance is fuel distribution. A wet single fogger is the worst case nitrous setup as you have both modes of possible failure: fuel jet that can plug AND the fuel distribution issue with the intake manifold. If Im going to spray it wet, than the direct port is better than the single fogger as it eliminates the fuel distribution issue due to intake manifold design. Dry kits eliminate both modes of failure at once. The tuning is no big deal, every single run has the log reviewed & map adjusted, and you simply use the idle stop switch to trigger the secondary maps when the nitrous is turned on, thus there is no tuning change between nitrous on/nitrous off runs.

 

[banishedmunk]

I look forward to seeing what this car can do next year.

 

[Nate Crisman]

I look forward to seeing what this car can do next year.

I guess technically, it's a different car. Hopefully just a few hundred lighter.