Please save us. Anyone help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[91_GSTBaby]

I don't want to take up all your guys' time but I am OUT of ideas.

Please if ANYONE can help me with this I would be in DEBT to you!

Heres the story:

I purchased a 1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-T with 86k on the clock. Red in color, she is definatly pretty. A/T Transmission, and a clean engine bay.

I took the car over to my parents house to show them after I purchased it, and the battery died. I put the jumper cables on to jump start it and like a total idiot I put the jumper cables on BACKWARDS.
After I saw the huge sparking at the battery terminals I quickly switched them to proper polarity and began to attempt starting it. The car just wouldnt start. Turning over and turning over it chugged and wouldnt fire. Eventually after a few attempts it FINALLY started. Running as if it were on 2 cylinders, it wasn't revving and had 0 power whatsoever. Ashamed of my stupidity I pushed the car in the drive way where it has sat for over 2 weeks of my trouble shooting.


Talked to a couple dsm guys online and did some thread re-search and found that I most likley fried my ECU, TCU, and possibly the wiring harness.
After I pulled my ECU, I took a look at the board and saw a white smokey patch about 2" on the board. NO fish smell though, just the smokey patch.

Talking to Lenin (Bigred16G), he told me that I might as well go DSM LINK and upgrade to my faults. So I bought his EPROM ECU, DSM Link V2.5, his 450 CC Injectors ETC all for a great deal. (He's cool.)

So I got the package, installed the ECU, downloaded V3 of the software (which is confirmed that it works with V2.5), fully connected beautifully, and set all of the DSM link settings to stock (since its a bone stock DSM.)

After everything was good to go, I jumpered the dead battery, and couldn't get it to start up. Turning over as if its out of gas, I could NOT get it to fire. Just over and over.

Talked to some more buddies, they said to check fuses, so I did. Went out and bought 14$ worth of fuses and replaced ones that didnt need to be. Checked spark plugs for spark, DSM Link can click the fuel pump on no problem, and i am getting fuel to the plugs. THere slightly damp, and smell like gas after short attempts to start.

So with spark, fuel, and fuses all good, I figured DSM link was incorrect with the MAF compensation tab.

Posted a log of my attempt to start the car, and Tom Dorris @ ECM Link said there is no reason what so ever for the car not to start. The settings are all good to go.

Still no joy, I start hearing people reccomend the CAS being the problem. So I volt meter the plug wire harness side of the CAS and get back 13V, and 4.9V from the plug. (Manual States this is perfect.)

Check the CAS PINS themselves with the meter for resistance and I only get readings for about an 1/8th of a second. They will not stay on the meter screen so I don't know if that means my CAS is bad or not. I was really trying to avoid pulling the CAS loose so I can test to see if the fuel injectors are clicking because I do not have a readily available timing gun. If the CAS is what you guys all say, then I'll buy one, and get a timing gun.

After checking the CAS, I checked the CTS Coolant Temp Switch wires (green wires) coming off the thermostat housing to be torn (this too would stop the starting). Those wires are good as well.

My next Idea from a buddy was to put the stock 450CC ECU Chip in the EPROM slot instead of DSM Link, and try that. So I swapped chips, and now I have a constant check engine light with the old chip in place, but the engine now wants to start more then ever. Chugging, and ALMOST firing up it seems with the old EPROM chip in place it wants to start a LITTLE more then with dsm link. Just a TINY bit more.

So thats where I am. I hope I didnt post anything that has already been discussed, but I highly doubt my situation is on these forums.

- Fuel is getting to the plugs
- The spark plugs are sparking perfectly
- The CTS Wires are good
- The CAS Plug is delivering perfect readings
- Clean air filter, oil, oil filter, injectors, ETC
- Fuel Pump is activating
- ALL Headlights, taillights, dash lights, fuse box lights, fuses EVERYTHING works.


All I can think of is two things:

-CAS itself is bad and is throwing the ignition timing off causing it to not start/run terrible

-390CC Injectors @ 43.5 PSI with an ECU that is compensating for 450CC @ 37 PSI is causing it to be too rich, bog and fail to start. (Even though DSM Link people say that it should still start with the MAF Comp tabs at 0%, or +6% to compensate for the fuel.)

Intake temps, coolant temps, 02, MAF readings are all right on with Link.


Please anyone, from the DSM gods above PLEASE someone help us. She's in need guys, badly.


Also, the BOV was vented from the ricer guy before he sold it to me. So I bought some hose and vented it properly.


Again thank you ALL for ALL your help. This is no longer a DSM LINK Related topic so I'm bringing my problem to you.


Thanks SO MUCH!

Josh

 

[Achelea]

Patience is a virtue.

Now give me a cookie.

 

[Calan]

So what do you guys think?

If intake valves are bent, the air is flowing out of one cylinder through the bent intake valves, into the intake manifold, and down into the other cylinder(s) through it's bent valves.

I think it's time to pull the head and start making your shopping list.

 

[motomattxxx]

I would want to see another compression test first, doing a leakdown test takes some skill to do it properly and not get the wrong results.

 

[JetGSR]

We here in Aus are still looking at ECU as our cyl tests are good!

we keep checking over and over again the same things and the only thing left is the ECU!

but yours is a very strange coincidence, my be when my mate connected his battery in reverse it bent some valves too? Not that easy for us unfortunately.

At least you worked out your problem!

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Well, like I said, my shopping list depends on the TSi. My timing marks align, but I need to figure out the knock sound. If I can get good compression/leak down results from the talon, and look into fixing the knock sound, then I will swap GST's tranny into the talon, and use the talon as my daily driver. Then I will either do a manual transmission conversion on the eclipse, and rebuild the eclipses head with some better cams/valvetrain, possibly new pistons, etc. I MIGHT end up using the GST as my track car. I would personally rather have the oreo be the track car, but it all depends on the results. If the TSi's head needs rebuild as well from the compression/leak down results, then the eclipse would be cheaper/easier because the eclipse's transmission is perfect.


I will report back soon with the TSi's condition.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Well, I ran a dry/wet compression test on the TSi.

DRY:

60-62-60-73

WET:

168-182- didnt finish (too lazy.)

Obviously the piston rings are worn or something. The real question is why the motor is knocking. I wonder if the knocking could refer to the low compression. Hmm just seems to be a piston ring issue. I don't know though what do you guys think the knock/low compression could be?

Basically both the TSi, and the GST will need severe motor work. The TSi also needs a tranny rebuild, so the GST's condition believe it or not is in better shape.

So I figure its just a question of what the knock is. Because if the knock is something serious, then the talon may need more work then the eclipse even if I just swap trannies.

What do you guys think I should do?

GF says I should just sell both of them for like 500 each if I am lucky, or part them out and just buy a really solid 1G that runs great.

I told her parting out isn't an over-night thing, and I don't think i could get a K for both of them.


This is very depressing.

 

[350war]

I would pull the head on the GST and see about getting her running first. You have so much time and money in it now you might as well keep going. You have become a hard core DSM'er in a short period of time 2 broke cars and a broke wallet! Dont give up we all want the video of one of them running. Good Luck!

 

[talontd92tsi]

I would use the parts from the 2 cars to make 1 good car, then part out the rest. Choose which chassis is better, which bottom end is better, and which head is better, build one good motor and be done with it.

 

[JRoX85]

Just for giggles have you checked your starter on your gs-t yet? I have read all four pages in this and not once did you mention the starter... As four the plugs gettin fuel on it you are flooding the motor by trying to start the car and it isn't starting but you figured that out. Also have you checked the coil pack?

 

[Dark_Horse]

I second what talontd92tsi said. Use the best parts from each one and build 1 car. No reason to sell both when you've got the parts there to fix 1 car easily. Since the Eclipse's block seems to be in good shape, it will be much easier to get that running...IIRC, the head from the Talon is fine, so why not swap that over to the Eclipse with a new composite head gasket?

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Any ideas what the compression test readings SHOULD be on a COLD 4G63T?

Some say low, some say high, can anyone confirm this? If my talons motor has good strong compression, then I will look into replacing the head of the TSi to avoid the electrical conflict I will probably STILL have with the GS-T.

 

[motomattxxx]

They should be in the 130's-160's. No reason to be depressed about it, the gst sounds like it will be great if you put a little bit of elbow grease into it, as does the tsi. Honestly, if it were me I would fix both of them and have two daily drivers, starting with the gst first since it should be the easiest to fix because it has been driven by you recently. My problem is that you stated that you dont have a constant check engine light from the gst, which makes me believe that you have an ecu problem, I know that you said that your timing marks wont line up all at once, but I have seen an amature make the mistake of not knowing what to look for and think that the head is damaged and remove it for nothing when it was fine, same with a leakdown test, I have worked with techs that still dont know how to properly do a leak down test and get the wrong results. I'm also thinking that you either have a BAD compression tester or you dont know how to use it.

 

[Dark_Horse]

Any ideas what the compression test readings SHOULD be on a COLD 4G63T?

Some say low, some say high, can anyone confirm this? If my talons motor has good strong compression, then I will look into replacing the head of the TSi to avoid the electrical conflict I will probably STILL have with the GS-T.

There is no formula that says it will be xxx psi when cold and yyy psi when warm.

When metal gets warm, it expands, thus tightening all the clearances in the motor...Thus creating more pressure.

I still don't understand why you aren't going to just fix the Eclipse? The old owner of the Talon said it knocks when the engine is running. That will require rebuilding the block. You already figured out why the Eclipse wouldn't fire and you know what you need to do to fix it.

I see good, complete heads for sale all of the time in the classifieds for under $400.

 

[bori18]

IF I WERE YOU I WOULD CHANGE THE TIMING BELT TENSIONER AND USE A STOCK ECU AND INJECTORS TO AND TRY TO START IT. YOU HAVE A TIMMING PROBLEM AND BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE YOU HAVE TO ADRESS THAT. AS FAR AS THE PROGRAMABLE ECU, YOU REALLY SHOULDNT TRY TO USE IT TILL YOU GET THE CAR RUNNING RIGHT FIRST. I RUN AN AEM EMS AND WHEN I FIRST GOT IT THE CAR WAS A PAIN TO SET UP AND GET RUNNING. YOU REALLY DONT KNOW THE PARAMETERS THAT THE GUY BEFORE YOU SET ON THE ECM SO IT MIGHT NOT BE EASY TO GET THE CAR DIALED IN WITH IT TILL YOU GET IT RUNNING WITH A STOCK ONE FIRST... GOOD LUCK

P.S. RUN COPPER NGK PLUGS NOT BOSCH OR DENSO OR ANY OTHER BRAND AND IRIDIUM AND PLATINUM ARE NOT VERY GOOD FOR BOOSTED CARS SINCE THE SPARK HAS A NARROWER ELECTRODE WICH IN MY EXPERIENCE ARE PRONE TO FOULING EASIER.....

 

[91_GSTBaby]

The reason why I won't fix the eclipse is because of the reverse polarity. For all we know there could be some random fried wire somewhere a long the harness or something that EVEN AFTER the 400$ new head it STILL won't start, and I REALLY don't want to deal with that.

So I bought another DSM.

1991 Plymouth Laser RS-T.

Guy had it down in LA for 340$. Josh (aka achelea) and his buddy jeff met me down @ his place and we looked down the laser. It too has bent valves, missing a muffler, cheap tsw wheels, BOV uncirculated, but it was a M/T. With only a 130K on the car, I figured why not, I could use the 14B turbo, M/T tranny, ( I want to do a swap), and anything else on it I am missing.

So I just got it back up here last night.

I now have the DSM TRIO! .

Well its in pretty bad condition over all, but some stuff under the hood is still good and I will part it out soon.

Josh, and Jeff are going to come up here this afternoon and out of the 3 dsms, our plan is make one start. We'll see.

Thanks again!

Josh

 

[bigj884]

no offense....but you now own 3 non running cars.....thats just dumb

 

[Calan]

Sounds like you have the makings of a nice salvage company.

 

[beniger]

salvage yard...i want awd shell cheap pm me

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Hey guys! Well, I have some better news for a change!

Two great dsm buddies of mine came up here and helped me tear apart the talon and get my laser up here. We tore apart the TSi, valve cover, oil pan, timing belt cover, etc.

Well, after we pulled the A/T's torque converter plate, and oil pan off, I rotated the crank by hand and we listened for what the knock was. After a few cranks, my buddy Josh pointed to the torque conveter nuts on the torque converter plate of the a/t tranny. Reached up, and LITTERALLY loosened them by HAND. All four of them were finger loose. He tightened them up the best he could with his fingers, and the knocking went 100% away!

Seems the transmission place the guy before me had the work done wasn't top notch.

As for the bottom end of the motor one of the balance shafts wasn't rotating! Everything else was snug and compression was very firm. (I almost couldn't rotate it at some points.)

All of the valvetrain was compressed and very tight under the valve cover.


We pulled the timing belt cover off, and (I would upload pics but my camera cord is missing), the balance shaft belt was in 3 pieces. One of them wedged in the timing belt area. THe other half COMPLETLY off the sprocket.

After confirming that the compression feels good, the valvetrain is tight, bottom end seems ok, the knock is eliminated, and the balance shaft isn't rotating because the belt broke off, it looks like I will need a timing belt job, gaskets for everything I pulled off, and possibly a transmission swap. However I wanted to ask you guys, do you think the loose torque converter nuts could cause the transmission to slip into neutral or act stupid?? The guy said, "After I had the transmission repaired, a few months later it started kicking into neutral and a "knock" started with it. At this point I just parked it." Since the knock was eliminated do you think the transmission problem could have been fixed?

If so, I may only need a timing belt job, and gaskets. We also checked the fuel injector resistance as to how they feel left-right and they were very loose. The o-rings needed replaced, and I now have the set from the GS-T ready with new o-rings for it.

So what do you guys think about the torque converter being loose?

It's going to cost me a lot, I plan on changing everything from the timing belt to the knock sensor. I just hope before I blow another 500$ on parts, and spend 4 hours changing the parts, the foundation is good. Josh, Jeff, and I (all dsmers) think the motor is good. I am just VERY VERY lucky that balance shaft belt didnt make my timing belt skip teeth or snap.


Thanks again for all your help, I plan on being @ the socal mitsubishi owners club meet on July 10th if we can get the TSi running.

Lets just hope the new belt/gasket/pump/pulley/torque converter tightening fixes the most of it!

Thanks,

Josh

 

[josh38127]

Don't you just love it when its a simple fix

 

[beniger]

if you blew you balance shaft belt that connect to the oil pump and silent shaft you might want to check if the bearings are scored anywhere rod bearing things like that.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Bump... the page is stuck again.

 

[bigj884]

Bump... the page is stuck again.

it is.

on a side note....since you have 2 1G's at ## dispol...are either of them running an eprom...if so...wanna sell one???