Please save us. Anyone help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[91_GSTBaby]

I don't want to take up all your guys' time but I am OUT of ideas.

Please if ANYONE can help me with this I would be in DEBT to you!

Heres the story:

I purchased a 1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-T with 86k on the clock. Red in color, she is definatly pretty. A/T Transmission, and a clean engine bay.

I took the car over to my parents house to show them after I purchased it, and the battery died. I put the jumper cables on to jump start it and like a total idiot I put the jumper cables on BACKWARDS.
After I saw the huge sparking at the battery terminals I quickly switched them to proper polarity and began to attempt starting it. The car just wouldnt start. Turning over and turning over it chugged and wouldnt fire. Eventually after a few attempts it FINALLY started. Running as if it were on 2 cylinders, it wasn't revving and had 0 power whatsoever. Ashamed of my stupidity I pushed the car in the drive way where it has sat for over 2 weeks of my trouble shooting.


Talked to a couple dsm guys online and did some thread re-search and found that I most likley fried my ECU, TCU, and possibly the wiring harness.
After I pulled my ECU, I took a look at the board and saw a white smokey patch about 2" on the board. NO fish smell though, just the smokey patch.

Talking to Lenin (Bigred16G), he told me that I might as well go DSM LINK and upgrade to my faults. So I bought his EPROM ECU, DSM Link V2.5, his 450 CC Injectors ETC all for a great deal. (He's cool.)

So I got the package, installed the ECU, downloaded V3 of the software (which is confirmed that it works with V2.5), fully connected beautifully, and set all of the DSM link settings to stock (since its a bone stock DSM.)

After everything was good to go, I jumpered the dead battery, and couldn't get it to start up. Turning over as if its out of gas, I could NOT get it to fire. Just over and over.

Talked to some more buddies, they said to check fuses, so I did. Went out and bought 14$ worth of fuses and replaced ones that didnt need to be. Checked spark plugs for spark, DSM Link can click the fuel pump on no problem, and i am getting fuel to the plugs. THere slightly damp, and smell like gas after short attempts to start.

So with spark, fuel, and fuses all good, I figured DSM link was incorrect with the MAF compensation tab.

Posted a log of my attempt to start the car, and Tom Dorris @ ECM Link said there is no reason what so ever for the car not to start. The settings are all good to go.

Still no joy, I start hearing people reccomend the CAS being the problem. So I volt meter the plug wire harness side of the CAS and get back 13V, and 4.9V from the plug. (Manual States this is perfect.)

Check the CAS PINS themselves with the meter for resistance and I only get readings for about an 1/8th of a second. They will not stay on the meter screen so I don't know if that means my CAS is bad or not. I was really trying to avoid pulling the CAS loose so I can test to see if the fuel injectors are clicking because I do not have a readily available timing gun. If the CAS is what you guys all say, then I'll buy one, and get a timing gun.

After checking the CAS, I checked the CTS Coolant Temp Switch wires (green wires) coming off the thermostat housing to be torn (this too would stop the starting). Those wires are good as well.

My next Idea from a buddy was to put the stock 450CC ECU Chip in the EPROM slot instead of DSM Link, and try that. So I swapped chips, and now I have a constant check engine light with the old chip in place, but the engine now wants to start more then ever. Chugging, and ALMOST firing up it seems with the old EPROM chip in place it wants to start a LITTLE more then with dsm link. Just a TINY bit more.

So thats where I am. I hope I didnt post anything that has already been discussed, but I highly doubt my situation is on these forums.

- Fuel is getting to the plugs
- The spark plugs are sparking perfectly
- The CTS Wires are good
- The CAS Plug is delivering perfect readings
- Clean air filter, oil, oil filter, injectors, ETC
- Fuel Pump is activating
- ALL Headlights, taillights, dash lights, fuse box lights, fuses EVERYTHING works.


All I can think of is two things:

-CAS itself is bad and is throwing the ignition timing off causing it to not start/run terrible

-390CC Injectors @ 43.5 PSI with an ECU that is compensating for 450CC @ 37 PSI is causing it to be too rich, bog and fail to start. (Even though DSM Link people say that it should still start with the MAF Comp tabs at 0%, or +6% to compensate for the fuel.)

Intake temps, coolant temps, 02, MAF readings are all right on with Link.


Please anyone, from the DSM gods above PLEASE someone help us. She's in need guys, badly.


Also, the BOV was vented from the ricer guy before he sold it to me. So I bought some hose and vented it properly.


Again thank you ALL for ALL your help. This is no longer a DSM LINK Related topic so I'm bringing my problem to you.


Thanks SO MUCH!

Josh

 

[Rob10_99]

Where's the timing set, have you tried cranking it with it loose and moving it around? Set it with a timing light before?
Why's that car have 390s in it, you have it setup for 450s with link now right"?

 

[Lofty]

My immediate guess was a blown sensor ground in the ecu, and there are some shorted wires that are causing the sensor ground to continually blow on the ecu. Thus your no start issue. I've seen it before (O2 wired wrong), but you said the sensors are completely normal according to link.

Did you ever replace the alternator? That would DEFINITELY have been messed up from all of this.

Go through ALL of the wires, looking for shorts/melted wires, because I'm definately sure there probably is some.

Find out the proper volatages for ALL the sensors and see if they're bad, ECT, CAS, Crank Trigger.

Are you experiencing any odd noises when you try to start it? I'm really trying to help you, I know how bad it feels to pay for a stupid mistake that took a few seconds to do.

 

[donniekak]

When you turn thr key on, does the boost gauge go to zero? Does the tach needle move while you crank it over?

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

This is an idiot test, make sure this is good before anything else. turn on the key, the stock boost gauge needs to go to zero, and the CEL needs to light for 5 seconds.
You should be able to start the car with the CAS unplugged. but.. maybe not considering your ECU has been wiped from a battery disconnect. try it anyways. It sounds like it must be something to do with time if you're getting fuel and spark.

 

[knochgoon24]

Why don't you set the ECU for the correct injectors?

 

[viperlp01]

Did you check spark to all cylinders.. You first said it sounds like it is firing on 2 cylinders.. have 2 coils and fire 2 spark plugs each. Make sure all are firing.. Also make sure the firing order is correct. Also when you put that other ecu in it threw a CEL... try looking in dsmlink to see if any codes are turned off or are showing up in the DTC tab.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Wow! Thank you guys all so much for your replies!

Let me answer then one @ at time..

1. As for the spark on all four cylinders, the only reason I said it seemed to be running on two cylinders was after I fried the stock ECU it was probably compensating incorrectly and acting stupid. I have solid spark on all four cylinders. Now as for making sure the firing order is correct... I'll have to look that up.

2. Setting the ECU for 450CC @ 37 PSI: In DSM Link there BASE/STOCK Settings (Global 0.0%) (Deadtime 0) is the lowest FUEL wise you can go. It is "STOCK" and it is 450 CC @ 37 PSI. The ONLY way to make DSM Link WORK properly with 390CC @ 43.5 PSI is to use the MAF compensation tabs and to raise them exactly 6% due to the fact that the A/T runs 6% leaner then the M/T. So since the ECU is compensating for the +6% fuel I don't have, I need to raise the air +6%. I tried messing with the MAF Comp tabs and Tom on ECM link said I should just put them @ 0, and I will be fine. Again he states there is NO reason for the car not to start through ECM Link.

3. Blown sensor ground: Yes, I suspected this too, but like you stated Tom said he didnt see anything wrong with Link. My int, coolant, and o2 readings are correct. I don't get anything negative.

4. I have no trouble having the check engine light on for 5 seconds or more. With ECM link, the check engine light is on perfectly, then turns off as it should. The Tachometer bounces from 180-220 RPM while turning over every time. As ECM Link confirms as well. I am not 100% on the boost gauge going to 0, I don't remember. But i will get back to you guys on that after I get to my parents place today.

5. I have 450CC Injectors I bought from my buddy lenin. I just need the O-Rings for them, and I can put them in. I'm just concerned at how well the 13G Turbine will operate with the 13% more fuel then its used to. I might go to the dealer today for the O-Rings, or order them from RRE. Again, I don't neccesarily have ECM link, set up for 450CC. I was actually gearing it towards the 390's. (As best as I could). The Stock EPROM Chip is in place as I speak, and THAT itself is for 450's but I was talking to another good DSMER about the 450/390 problem and he said it shouldn't be a problem trying to START and idle the motor. (Anyone confirm this??)

6. There are no odd noises when trying to start. I did get some ECU Relay clicks when I put the stock eprom chip in backwards, but I switched its position and that fixed it right away. Again the engine turns over with full lights/power as if its out of gas.

7. I Have NOT tested or replaced the alternator after the frying. I was under the assumption that I would only need to replace the alternator after I could get it to start seeing as the alternator just charges the battery while its running. Is there any reason why I should replace it just attempting to start? Again, I am jumpering the battery everytime.

Thank you guys so much for your help, please keep it coming. I will get those o-rings today for the 450's if they have them, check the boost gauge to see if it goes to 0, test the volts of the different sensors, and look into getting a timing light. I don't have one so I cant test the timing. I haven't tried to loosen the CAS and move it around to hear the injectors clicking or while attempting to start it either so I might try that when I get back to my parents. I look forward to your guys' responses, so hopefully there will be some when I come back on.


If anyone has AIM, and wants to help me out I'm usually on.

AIM: jdjosh90
TEXT: 760-617-9083

Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PewPew90Laser]

Did you try starting fluid by any chance?

Bad gas WILL cause a nostart

 

[rare1]

450cc Injectors should work fine in a auto car.Never had a problem with mine.But some people have.It should still start.Looking at the coils, left to right should be 4-1-2-3 if I can remember right.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Ok, I just called Hell and the o-rings are gonna run me like 30$. I'm going to replace them all even if I don't need one or two. The 450's will be in the car tonight.

I haven't tried starting fluid, but something tells me in the manner that it turns over once it's started it's not going to run right. The only thing I can think of making the brand new gas I just put it like last week bad is the Sea Foam I put it the gas tank to pass smog right before this whole thing went down. But Sea foam making something clog up or not work?? Thats the exact oposite of what it is supposed to do.

Ok I'll check the firing order, but again, I didn't change the plug wires firing order, and it was running fantastic before I fried the ECU.

 

[PewPew90Laser]

hahaha sea foam will fail a car through smog SO hard if it's in the tank.
after this is all said and done, burn through that tank and fill up with nice gas with no additives. Sea foam really helps emissions if you put it through the intake mani to clean out deposits but in the tank it's just going to remove deposits from lines, injectors and it burns like hell. HEET works great for emissions time since it's isopropyl and burns hot+clean

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Ok, Just got back from the stealer, would've been 76$ but the guy behind the counter hooked me up and charged me like 3$ less per o-ring. Got all 12 of the pieces and 52$ later, I'm ready to o-ring up these 450's and put them in. I have absolutley NO idea what so ever how to swap injectors so I will do some re-search quick and get to it.

I'll let you know when I get them in and if it helps starting any.

Thanks again everyone!!!

ok, I also bought the Back-up manual on disc from lenin and I just read how to replace the fuel injectors and test for proper fuel pressure, and it shows a couple steps with the car running.... umm.... yeah.

Should I just swap the injectors without doing the running tests?? Should I try to get the car to start with the 390's in it first via testing the CAS and other stuff? Or should I just put the 450's in, and go?

Thanks, waiting on you guys.

- Josh

INTERESTING!!

With the stock EPROM chip in place (giving me the constant CEL)

My boost gauge does NOT go to 0. However my tachometer is still working when I try to turn it over. But again, Boost gauge does not go to 0, but now that I re-call I know for a 100% FACT that the DSM Link chip, with dsm link makes the boost gauge go up to zero. I remember the boost gauge working.

Now, for whoever said that, what does it mean??

I'll look it up in the mean time.

 

[gingerbredman00]

maybe your crap shorted battery needs replaced?
when it starts there is not enough voltage?
if not.. you got me man....

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

I was the one that commented about the boost gauge hitting 0.
Now I know for a fact the no CEL nor boost gauge response means bad ECU.
But, if you're getting a constant CEL and no gauge.. I'm not 100% sure.. .
I would try and pull the code for the CEL. and find someone in your area with an ECU layin around, pop it in real quick and see if anything happens.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Okay, I finally tested the CAS. I pulled it out, and rotated the piece by hand while listening very carefully for any clicks/injector sounds with the key in the ON position. I listened with a flat blade screw driver on the injector and my ear to the handle, and 2 different sets of ears, and four different attempts confirm that there are ZERO clicks/sounds coming from the injectors WHATSOEVER.
The CAS is NOT operating the injectors properly, or I should hear some type of clicking.

So I am buying a used (but guaranteed CAS, and injector resistor pack for like 35$ from another DSMer buddy..)


Wish me luck guys, please we can only hope.

In the end, I may have only needed a CAS instead of a whole new ECU/Link.

But hey, look at the bright side, if the CAS is the issue, I've got the right program before I start any mods!

Thanks again, and let me know to check anything else if you guys can!


-Josh

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

good luck.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Alright guys. Ordered my CAS from my buddy John (DSM4G63ATTACK),

installed it correctly, connected with dsm link and had full online.


Went to turn her over, same exact thing. Nothing new. Just turning over and over beautifully as if its out of gas.

Fuel
Spark
New Plugs
Full lights/blinkers/fuses are good
New Ignition Fuse
check engine light goes off after 5 seconds
fuel pump activation switch activates the fuel pump
Boost gauge goes to 0
14V Jumpered Battery
2 Different CAS'
CTS Wires are good
No Blown sensor ground (dsm link settings report back perfectly)
MAF is plugged in and wires are good
STOCK EPROM Chip seems to want to start the car more then the DSM link chip
Stock eprom chip also gives a constant CEL and boost gauge doesnt go to 0
DSM Link chip boost gauge goes to 0, no CEL after 5 seconds
Tachometer moves between 180-250 RPM when trying to start
Same Alternator
Same Battery


Please. Anyone. PLEASE. I have purchased item after item and nothing fixes this car.

Battery cables on backwards? = thousand dollar troubleshooting massacre?


HELP!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hondaslayer1]

dude that sucks. i am going to think twice before i jump start my cars. best of luck and sorry to hear the bad news.

 

[2gmummy]

This might seem kind of dumb but did you check the basics? Like visually check the wires for any sign of damage. I would hate for you to have spent all this money and it ends up being really simple. I had a no start mystery for like a month, turned out it be a disconnect wire that wasn't directly in the ignition circuit.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

Like I said, ALL of my fuses are good, ALL my my lights, blinkers, EVERYTHING electronic works. MY harness side tested good for the CAS, my battery has plenty of voltage I've checked the wires underneath the fuse box on the pass side, MAF wires, CTS wires, the car turns over perfectly and everything works. CD Player, radiator fans, putting the cables on backwards fried litterally NOTHING but the dome light fuse.

Anywhere I can see wires I've looked at, theres like NO electronical problems.

The car would actually start after I put the cables on backwards with the stock ECU in place. It would start, it just ran as if it were on two cylinders. It wouldn't rev, it just bogged horribly. I decided to put the stock ECU back in for laughs and now it does the same thing that DSM Link ECU, EPROM 450CC Stock Chip, and now my old ECU. All the same thing. Doesn't matter which ecu, which chip it all just turns over like its out of gas.

 

[motomattxxx]

If you installed your eprom chip backwards it is junk, that is why you have the constant check engine light with it and you could have damaged the ecu. Ever try new spark plugs yet? replace the spark plugs and hold the gas pedal to the floor during cranking a few times and see what happens, but only after you fix your ecu problems.

 

[92EagleAWD]

Well, you should prob test the injectors and the injector wires, separately. Put some power the one of the injectors OUT of the car and see if they are functioning. Also use a Mulitmeter to test the signal to the injectors.

You said you were going to replace the resistor pack also, did you eve do that? I have had cars that i had to test every single wire coming from the ECU to find the problem, check the power and ground wires for the ECU, and make sure its getting the correct voltage, if it is then keep checking the wires 1 by 1 with a copy of an engine wiring diagram handy. GL

 

[brandon1239]

I just skimmed thru the whole thread so sorry if Im repeating anyone, but have you swapped out ecu's with a stock one? when my caps leaked it gave me a hard starting issue and it would cause the injectors to constantly dump fuel into the engine and it was a total nightmare. car would run like complete trash. after chasing the problem with everything from plugs to injectors to coil I finally swapped ecu's and it runs great. Hope you find out the problem soon, I know how you feel ahah.

 

[91_GSTBaby]

UPDATE

I just pulled some of my fuses yet again to check them, and I found that my black alternator fuse in the fuse box has a brown gooey near the prongs and seems to get VERY hot after a few attempts to start it.

Bad alternator fuse?? Hmm...

People are starting to say the wiring harness now. Another DSMer suggested that even though the wires are intact they may be missing some strands and could effect the starting. What do you guys think? Should I blow 350-500$ on a good harness and swap harnesses?

Any other ideas before I give up on this thing?

UPDATE #3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I pulled the four brand new plugs I put in the engine 2 days ago, and they are black with carbon build up and SOAKED in fuel. ALL four of them were shiney wet and DRENCHED in gas. It seems I am WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY to rich. Like so rich it wont start.

After talking to another helpful dsmer I am going to go out change my plugs back to my iridiums, test to see if I get spark, install them, and then bring up dsm link lean the fuel sliders about 10% for the first 2500 RPM to see if it brings down the fuel flow, and attempt to start it. If theres no difference in turn over, my buddy was saying its possible my FPR could be bad. Not neccesarily because the cables on backwards but because they go bad. I'll get back, please help!!!!!!!