pistons and rods

[skatefiend]

Can the non turbo pistons and rods handle a turbo if the correct rings are in place? They are coming off a 93 n/t es going to a 90 awd. Help please?

 

[cruisintalonawd]

yes and no more of a no if you dont have a really good tunning.. are you needing standard size ones??

 

[1992awdlaser]

Why would you even think about doing that?

 

[yesItsdsm]

Why use non-turbo pistons and risk it?? You can get turbo pistons for fairly cheap and they are made handle boost. I'm actually gonna be parting out a block so pm me If you want some turbo pistons.

 

[skatefiend]

They are fresh pistons from a recent rebuild bored 20 over. I want a bore to clean up the cylinder walls. The pistons are brand new and I dont have a lot of money to waste.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

What kind of mods do you have? Any management? Fuel? Id say you can run them on stock boost 12-14psi with management, and running it a little richer then normal down around 11.0:1. Or if you can check knock count, then tune it till there is no knock, and your good to go.

 

[bastarddsm]

It will be fine.. you don't need to even treat it specially. when you mod to make big horsepower you may not be able to run quite as much boost or timing. but that is at the extremes.. i have had a n/t motor in my car. I also have my head shaved .050. i run 16psi on factory injectors, ive been running this for 20,000 miles. no problems.

 

[skatefiend]

so you guys would say that the new pistons and rods from my non turbo car with only 3000 miles on them would be able to handle a stock 14-16 psi of boost with turbo rings? What about the the lifters, springs, retainers, and valves? Are those all the same/ will work efficiently in a turbo motor from a non turbo?

 

[tqmx1]

I think you are playing with Appels & Oranges The 93 should be a 7bolt and the 90 is a 6bolt. Not sure about the NTs but it is that way with the turbos.

 

[NN4S]

The NT pistons are not designed for turbo use; they are weaker and have a good bit higher compression ratio (7.8:1 stock turbo pistons, 9:1 stock NT pistons) making for a much higher chance of detonation holing them with any real boost. The rings & ring lands aren't designed for turbo use either, making them much less efficient at sealing under boost. Can you use them? Yes. Do you want to use them? No; spend the money necessary to get proper turbo pistons for use in a turbo engine unless you enjoy tearing an engine down more often than necessary. At the very least you should look into a set of 2g turbo pistons (8.5:1 compression ratio) and having them modified to use your 1G rods. Some say that the costs for doing this put you close to the low end forged aftermarket pistons, but you should definitely not bother using the NT pistons, IMO. And yes, I did try it and holed one of them after 3 weeks at approximately 7-10 PSI occasional boost.

 

[skatefiend]

Im sold. But what about the head. I am going to use the 93 n/t head with bigger cams. The n/t head should be able handle turbo since its the same motor right?

 

[tqmx1]

Yes all the 1g 4g63 heads are the same.

 

[Purevil]

Im sold. But what about the head. I am going to use the 93 n/t head with bigger cams. The n/t head should be able handle turbo since its the same motor right?

Sold on what? WTF

Do not use n/t pistons, the upper ring lands are thinner than turbo ones and they will eventually break and get digested by the engine. The rings aren't the problem, its the piston material above the rings. Many people will say that they can handle 6-8psi but I wouldn't risk an engine just to save a couple bucks on pistons. Its interesting that the n/a pistons aren't "weaker", they are cast from the exact same material as the turbo pistons, so strength wise they should be the same. They are just designed with a different purpose in mind. Besides that 93' pistons would be 7 bolt and you will have to have the 90' rods machined just to fit them, invest that money into a good set of used pistons with a set of new rings, it will keep the budget down and provide solid results.

The 1993 head will need to have the 11mm bolt holes bored out to 12mm to fit on the 1990 block. Also avoid the n/t cams, while they do have longer duration (256' vs. turbo's 248') they also have increased "overlap" and will have a substantial power loss all across your entire powerband.

 

[tqmx1]

The 1993 head will need to have the 11mm bolt holes bored out to 12mm to fit on the 1990 block. Also avoid the n/t cams, while they do have longer duration (256' vs. turbo's 248') they also have increased "overlap" and will have a substantial power loss all across your entire powerband.

I think if you do some more checking you will find the 7bolt 1gb engines use the same head as the 6bolt. The 2g 7bolt is when they also changed the cylinder head.

If I am wrong please.

 

[Purevil]

I think if you do some more checking you will find the 7bolt 1gb engines use the same head as the 6bolt. The 2g 7bolt is when they also changed the cylinder head.

If I am wrong please.

All 93+ engines use 11mm bolts. The head itself is identical, but it has 11mm bolts.

Also, not all 1g 4g63 heads are the same. The 1990 n/t had smaller coolant passages, while there isn't a noticable difference in performance, it is different.

 

[NN4S]

Yes, you can use the head but you'll want to have the head bolt holes reamed from 11mm to 12mm so that you can use the 6 bolt head studs.

 

[tqmx1]

All 93+ engines use 11mm bolts. The head itself is identical, but it has 11mm bolts.

Also, not all 1g 4g63 heads are the same. The 1990 n/t had smaller coolant passages, while there isn't a noticable difference in performance, it is different.

OK I consead I went out to a Pick & Pull and found a unmolsted 1gb seven bolt and pulled the cam cover. Low&behold 12point bolts. Some of us have to spend $2 and see with our own two EYES (thats when they are working )

 

[GSX4BangR]

Not even worth it IMO.

 

[Steelnation36]

honestly from past experience its not even worth turboing N/T unless u just feel like having fun doing the work. You can buy a gst or gsx for the price you are gonna put into turboing an engine(if you end up doing it right so it can handle a lot of power) plus selling your current car you could simply upgrade a gst or gsx turbo.

My own opinion though i know a lot of guys just love making it their own and doing it themselves and have made some N/T cars into absolute monsters

 

[1992awdlaser]

They are talking about millimeter(size) not points on the bolts.

 

[NN4S]

honestly from past experience its not even worth turboing N/T unless u just feel like having fun doing the work. You can buy a gst or gsx for the price you are gonna put into turboing an engine(if you end up doing it right so it can handle a lot of power) plus selling your current car you could simply upgrade a gst or gsx turbo.

My own opinion though i know a lot of guys just love making it their own and doing it themselves and have made some N/T cars into absolute monsters

He's already got a 90 AWD and is trying to fix it cheap by using as many NT parts as he can get away with; not the same thing as trying to turbo an NT car or trying to convert a 1G FWD to AWD.

 

[tqmx1]

They are talking about millimeter(size) not points on the bolts.

The 12MM bolts have a 6point internal hex head where the 11MM has a 12pt. external.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Did not know that. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[skatefiend]

I found that out, but im going to use my crane power max cams, not sure on the numbers, but its the most lift and duration stock springs can handle safely...

 

[GSX4BangR]

The pistons have a different compression ratio than turbo pistons, you'd just end up hurting the motor really. But hey i aint never heard of it bein done so maybe thats somethin new to try but i wouldn't attempt, i love my turbo pistons