Oil Pressure Drop

[mikelv]

Ok,
This has put me in bit of a tiff...Hello to all with some advice.

The Question: My ultimate question is how much of a drop in oil pressure can you expect to see from a minor valve cover gasket leak?

The Actions: After doing some tuning one night....I underwent a second and third gear pull. Approx peak to 6400rpm. I went to park, noticed quite a bit of smoke and my heart fell into my stomach. I noticed it was quite a bit of oil burning from the manifold head shield. I noticed oil was splattered around, and dripping to the ground. Other than oil that had made contact with the hot displacement of the manifold...there seemed to be no evidence of anything...at the time, besides an oil pressure drop. Under the car though oil was leaking, Class III, meaning dripping. I parked the car, and drove no more. The next day, I took it to the dealer, due to the fact I have no place or even tools where I'm at to work on this problem.
The dealership is telling me they found nothing but a valve cover gasket having a minor leak....now I have normal oil pressure at normal operating speeds, but at idle, they oil pressure drops tremendously next to nothing. My first suspicion was that the oil dip stick was not properly seated, causing oil to splatter on to the heat shield...and on to the ground, under high acceleration. I still believe this. But still have a substantial loss of oil pressure.

Now it is difficult for me to throw out numbers, I only have an O.E. guage, but it's anywhere from 50% to 75% of the OE guage during normal operation, and approx 5- 10% during idle. Oil pressure was higher previous to my endavour.

I am suspect to see that there is more than meets they eye here, but nothing visible. I have limited mechanical facilities currently so.....that is the main reason I have not been able to check it myself. I plan to do so within the next day, I have coordinated for gagage space.

The dealership said they noticed nothing, the head gasket was fine, and the only leak they saw was a small leak on the valve cover. After four days of sitting, there was a small spot of oil under the car, (approx 4 square in.) on the driver side. This has never happened, so suspect an oil pan gasket? They added a dye, and I plan on checking the UV light against it to see what the hell is leaking.

All feed and return lines are fine, and everything seems to be ok visually.

What (if not all/any) engine oil leaks would cause such a loss of pressure? Major/ minor, or is this typical of any blown/ worn gasket?

Keep in mind, this is a well modified car, with quite low mileage.

1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
26,000 Org. Miles....

Any respectable response, or maybe some advice to what I'm missing here, or even questions to maybe help me out would be greatful. Thanks to all for the time and space.

Mike

 

[Defiant]

The Question: My ultimate question is how much of a drop in oil pressure can you expect to see from a minor valve cover gasket leak?

The Answer: None.

There's nothing under the cover that's under pressure. Oil pressure only exists in the galleries, out to the bearings.
Of course, you will see pressure dropping if you lose so much oil that the elephant's foot starts to suck air.

 

[mikelv]

Thank you for your reply.

I am not losing large amounts of oil from anywhere. That I believe was just initally from the oil dip stick. Now, its a deposit of about 4 square inches after 2-3 days of sitting. This occurs on the driver's side, and there is a small deposit right in front of it no more than an inch square. (Obviously from the same deposit)

What seal/ gaskets am I looking for on that side of the motor. Basically, my intentions are to find a starting point, pin point the leak, then reference the service manual.

There was something in question when the service department relayed to me that there seemed to be no issue with leaking, then proceded to inform me of the small cover leak. I too was under the impression that pressure is not generated from such. Thank you for clearing up my hunch, since I'm a novice at best .

I have concluded the oil that was splattered on and around the heat shield was nothing more than a dip stick not properly seated. I have arranged garage time in order to find a solution which should be coming soon.

I have been asking around, and it has convinced me that seal, and/or gasket somewhere is blown/worn. Previous to this issue, I have never had ANY oil leaks on/or around the car. Now, it doesn't take a genus to see I have to get my hands dirty, but some guidance as to where I should start, wouldn't hurt.

Thanks again!
Mike

 

[mikelv]

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My Nightmare!!!

 

[mikelv]

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My Nightmare!!!

 

[talontedtsi1995]

on my car the oil pressure drops at idle all the time is goes up when I drive the car, thought that was normal?

 

[ivanr4g63]

You do have a nice looking nightmare!
now, beeing that you like to clean you're engine bay clean (and don't we all) and beeing that oil pressure is very important, you should just stop guessing, and tae it to a shop and have them check the oil pressure with Pro equipment, or get an oil mechanic pressure gauge and check yourself.
If you're engine bay is as clean as that picture, it should be rather quick and easy to spot any major or small leaks, you want to look at your oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket, timing belt area, oil pump cover and timing gears, and sorrounding points.

 

[mikelv]

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This is the oil pressure currently, under normal operating condidtions.

Now I'm not sure if this helps, but this is what is going on. This was slightly higher prior to the issue at hand.

 

[mikelv]

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This is Idle after normal operation, under normal operating tempatures.

This is not normal...at least not what normally happens.

 

[mikelv]

You do have a nice looking nightmare!
now, beeing that you like to clean you're engine bay clean (and don't we all) and beeing that oil pressure is very important, you should just stop guessing, and tae it to a shop and have them check the oil pressure with Pro equipment, or get an oil mechanic pressure gauge and check yourself.
If you're engine bay is as clean as that picture, it should be rather quick and easy to spot any major or small leaks, you want to look at your oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket, timing belt area, oil pump cover and timing gears, and sorrounding points.

Thank you for the comment.

The Dealership emplaced an engine dye into the oil that will show under ultra- violet light in order to assist me through this process. I have not had a chance to get under the car as of yet, but plan to soon. The dealership was baffeled by my findings, and informed me they observed all the the places named. I will verfiy tomorrow. My probable suspect is somewhere around the oil filter housing or oil pan. Like I said, this car is very low mileage...however, gaskets wear over time, so just because it's not driven, doesn't eliminate the possibility of a worn gasket anywhere. Either way, this pressure is incorrect, and I will get to the bottom of this, prior to any substantial damage.

Thank you for your advice!!
Mike

 

[talontedtsi1995]

my oil pressure drops down every time when my car is at idle. is that not normal?

 

[romeen]

Wow, only 26K on a '97. Wanna trade cars?! Seriously though, how does your oil pressure look when the engine is cold and you first start it? Once my engine has warmed up, the pressure on the factory "pseudo-guage" shows just a little above minimum but quickly goes up with rpms. Many of my friend's cars are the same. Maybe all our motors are about to take a dump on us . I don't think this is uncommon. Hopefully a wiseman can back me up on this.
Also, I'm not trying to come across as patronizing but are you sure the correct viscosity oil was put in?
Let us know what the UV dye test shows.

 

[mikelv]

Okay I figured out the photos on here. They should be posted and visible.

 

[spinninfwdlaser]

I am not sure, but my DSM had bad oil pressure at idle as well, but ran well and compression tested good with good bearing clearances. I am not sure if the gauges are inaccurate or what. If you are unsure if you have other oil leaks, dye the oil..... Or drop the pan and start checking clearances. BUT, first do an oil check with proper equipment as mentioned. DSMs are known for dumb gauges.

 

[MrBoxx]

Okay, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, and you can search to your heart's desire and find my answer repeated here a number of times:

LOW OIL PRESSURE ON THE STOCK GAUGE AT IDLE IS NORMAL.

As long as you're not losing any significant amount of oil, you're fine. Get an aftermarket oil pressure gauge with actual numbers on it in PSI if you're unsure.

Saying your oil pressure is low judging by what your stock oil pressure gauge reads is just like saying your boost pressure is low going by what your stock boost gauge reads.

 

[mikelv]

Okay, I'll say it before, and I'll say it again, and you can search to your heart's desire and find my answer repeated here a number of times:

LOW OIL PRESSURE ON THE STOCK GAUGE AT IDLE IS NORMAL.

As long as you're not losing any significant amount of oil, you're fine. Get an aftermarket oil pressure gauge with actual numbers on it in PSI if you're unsure.

Saying your oil pressure is low judging by what your stock oil pressure gauge reads is just like saying your boost pressure is low going by what your stock boost gauge reads.

Thank you for your advice.
I understand these things are written out many, many times, so I am thankful for you taking the time to listen to my own personal issue.

I absoultely understand your point, and agree 100%. However, I've never seen my car react this way, or leak at all. I know what I have to do, and I'm going to do it. I will let everyone know how it turns out, and now I've figured out how to keeps photos on here, I will post as I fix this problem.

Once again, thanks to all that posted, and thank you for the helpful tips, and advice. I appreciate the space on here!

 

[Danielc2003]

I seem to have the same problem after buying the car(97 GSX) and driving a few days i noticed a drop in oil pressure and a oil leak under my car not too big. Next morning i checked the oil and it was really really low. oil was on my timing belt cover which was loose and in the way shit was rubbing on it so i pulled it out and there is a lil oil on the top where the spark plugs are. lots of gunk around driver side of the engine down.

 

[Phantom DSM]

For such a gorgeous looking engine bay, its hard not to see where the leak is.
judging from the leak spot under the driver side, you should inspect the oil filter housing.
My oil filter housing would leak a lot, it turns out the bolt on the housing where the filter screws on , BACKS out over time.

Thanks to fellow dsm'ers on this site I found out its a 24 mm 6point deep socket , I tightened it and the filter doesnt back out any more

Im not sure where else it could be leaking, but you can check you oil drain line connected to ## pan, or oil feed line coming off the filter housing.

At normal idle ## stock gauge should be at all the marks you specified. On highway driving 70 + mph that gauge should read at the 3/4 level !!! Anything less than that then, you should check ## dipstick to see how much oil u need to add for the loss ever couple of days in the meantime.

Kudos for wisemen on dropping in to check on noobs.

 

[mikelv]

Hello to all,
Thanks again for the response....to all you guys. This is a good place for people to speak like mature adults and, actually get some advice. It's good to see that most respect the fact that everyone is at a different experience level. Unlike some other places I've tried to seek advice. (I won't mention any sites...)
Anyway, I learned about what was going on....well it's a couple things. As I said before, I never really had the facility to work on the car. I was entrusted to the skills of my local Mitsubishi Service Tech...hmmm....
After days of normal operation, we inspected the engine bay to find any of the dye that was emplaced last week. The result: Nothing. No leaks anywhere. As some of you had mentioned, it was normal. Well, I never doubted you, so don't worry about the "I told ya so".... Now, the sad part to this, which I am almost embarassed to say right now is this: The tech the car was running so rich, that there was enough gas in the oil to cause a pressure drop. This is what he suspects. I'm not too sure but I know I've got a problem.
I have posted elswhere about another issue that seems to be related. I've been referenced well and have found what I've needed to correct the problem.
I am new to tuning with DSMLink, and most tuning all together. I am headed down the right track now, and again thanks to all for posting!

 

[slipstream808]

Mikey... I'm coming up from PA later. We can meet for lunch and eat off of your damn engine bay. J/K I'd get surgery outta that engine bay.

So what made the techie think that it was running rich?? That's what I'd like to know first.

 

[mikelv]

Mikey... I'm coming up from PA later. We can meet for lunch and eat off of your damn engine bay. J/K I'd get surgery outta that engine bay.

So what made the techie think that it was running rich?? That's what I'd like to know first.

Thank you for the reply. I try to keep it clean. My GST is almost there. I am on vacation in Maine until the 10th of FEB, so I'll probably miss ya.

Well, first off, he couldn't even get it started. We had to pull the plugs and clean them. Then, we found traces of gas actually in the oil. Man, I have been working on this for two days now, and my trims are getting pretty even. I also have extreme black carbon-like built up around the tailpipe. (If that really matters, or makes a difference)

DSMLink is something farely new to me with this car. I am still awaiting access to the site for more guidance. With my GST, I used pocketlogger, and the AFC. DSMlink is absoultely mind blowing, and I'm sure once I get the hang of things, it'll be fine. The car is still alittle rich, but it's getting down there. Cruise is pretty stable, so I made a run too see where I stand. I'm sorry, I do not want to go off topic, but I believe now that my oil pressure issue was due to gas in the oil.
Here's the basic numbers:


At the top of 4th Gear, it's peak O2 is .90V. This is at 6350 RPM's. Timing is 19.3 deg.
At the top of 3rd Gear it's peak O2 is .92V. This is 6700 RPM. 21.4 deg of advance.
During the entire pull the O2 jumps from .90V to .92V constant.
The A/F during the entire run of WOT, is about 15.7/1. Jumps around alittle from 15.5 to 15.7. Still alittle rich i am assuming. I am looking 14.7/1, as this is what I have read about.... gas and air mixture....
Thanks again!
Mike

 

[MrBoxx]

15.7:1 AFR is lean. Are you using a wideband O2 sensor, or is this the stock narrowband sensor?

It varies from person to person, but 11.x-12.x:1 AFR is a somewhat safer ratio to be at.

 

[slipstream808]

If the man is talking about tuning with .90 or .92 volts then he is talking about a 0-1 volt narrowband O2 sensor and not a 0-5 volt wideband sensor. Hands down, get a wideband. You can get an innovate one and hook it up to your laptop and log it as well via DSMLink. And you don't need the gauge. Good luck!

 

[mikelv]

Of course, I'm sorry....too much air, not enough fuel, lean.

Yes, I have heard quite a bit about wideband guages. I've read so many things, but with a full time life, this knowledge seems so perishable to me. I just haven't been able to retain things I've read over the past few years I've been an enthusiast.

I'll search the FAQ's. Does anyone have any insightful links about wideband theory/ guages??? I'm sure there is an explantion as to why wideband is superior.

Thanks guys! I'm going to post some datalogs in the proper forum shortly. Maybe you can see what I'm not. I seem to have things quite smooth during normal driving condidtions, but WOT, not too sure? There is serious potential to create some good power with the setup I have, and I'd like to reach that. Maybe with the help of some good, and willing Wiseman on here, I can achieve that.

I've read the article regarding: "how to post logs so we can read them". I'm doing my best to produce productive logs that everyone can understand and read.

Thanks again!
Mike

 

[Racer6908]

Sorry to bug you, but I've been a member on here for some time now for my 1st gen. Last fall I bought a 97 3000gt SL for my fiance bone stock dealer serviced with EVERY dealer schedule complete, and regular oil changes babied since day one with paper to prove it. Well, last Tues I took it to my work to do a couple things(work in a body shop). As I'm sitting at a red light I notice the stock oil pressure guage sitting almost on the "L" so out of instinct I shut it down. Restarted and realize with a load it hold fine pressure, at an idle however over about a minute it drops again. I changed all the oil, it's premium in spec, check for obvious leaks, no smoke, no metal in the oil, and no idiot light when it does go low? I checked all the 3KGT sites and they're worthless for the most part so I was hoping a Wiseman could help me out as my girl totaled our "driver car" last Thurs and she needs transportation NOW. Could it be the bad fuel mix(rich)? Is this possible(proven theory), or is it a crappy stock guage, or switch. I'm dumbfounded and short on time so I'm begging for help I've got all the right tools and a dealer. If you know how to troubleshoot this you could save my sanity. Thanks,Jake