2G Not passing smog because of monitors

[toojung2die]

1997 Eclipse Spyder GST a/t

OBD-II indicates I have three monitors stuck in a not ready condition. Nevada smog will allow up to 2 monitors not ready. Not ready are Catalyst, EGR system, Oxygen sensor heater.

There are no problem codes logged and no CEL. The car passes this part of the test. My friend runs the smog test station and he ran some diagnostics for me. Both O2 sensors are feeding back and the pre-cat sensor is in closed loop during idle. He reset the ECU and I drove almost a full tank of gas before bringing it back. The systems are still reading not ready and there is no CEL. The CEL turns on for about 5-10 seconds during start-up and goes out normally.

I replaced both O2 sensors and ran another half tank of gas, multiple trips. The sensors are still not ready with no errors logged and no CEL.

Mods: 3" catback exhaust, Injen style intake w/filter, "knock" LED on boost solenoid. All hoses, sensors and solenoids connected. Basically stock. Car runs great. What can I do before I have to take my baby to visit Satan.

 

[c5chris]

Did you drive around for a few days before the smog test on the new ECU?

No.

I swapped ECUs the day before the smog test. I drove 20 miles to work and around 5 miles to the Test-Only center.

 

[Bigglesworth87]

Does it matter if its a Federal ECU or a Cali Ecu?? The reason I ask is because I borrowed one from a fellow tuner (99 spyder gst) and I installed it and had a CEL within 2-3 minutes of having the car on. Now he bought his dsm in New Jersey and he said the ECU is a federal ECU would this be the cause of the CEL?? There was no CEL when i had my ecu in and or after I reinstalled my ecu.

 

[toojung2die]

Does it matter if its a Federal ECU or a Cali Ecu??

Initially I would have to conclude the results of your experiment indicate it does make a difference. It would be helpful if you had read the DTC while the Check Engine light was on.

 

[JSin]

Anybody know anything more on this situation? I am having the same problem, readiness lights not set and am wondering what I should do.

 

[Bigglesworth87]

Anybody know anything more on this situation? I am having the same problem, readiness lights not set and am wondering what I should do.

The only thing that I can say will work is to take it to the dealership and have them take care of it. Central Coast Mitsubishi in Atascadero has my car at the moment. They are going to set the ecu to how its supposed to be and smog it for me. Not sure on the exact cost but he quoted me a little more the $100.

 

[toojung2die]

Anybody know anything more on this situation? I am having the same problem, readiness lights not set and am wondering what I should do.

There are several possible solutions.

1. Take it to the dealer each year and pay $118 to $236 to have them set the monitors to ready using the MUT-II diagnostic tool to obtain a passing smog certificate. Trouble with this solution is when diagnostic mode is exited and the ignition is turned off the monitors reset to not-ready again.

2. Buy a 1999 ECU. Some 1997 DSM owners on this board have said their readiness monitor problem was solved by installing an ECU out of a '99 DSM.

3. Buy a 1995 EPROM ECU and add DSMLink. The '95 ECU will set the monitors as required to pass emission testing but has a "MIL Bug" that indicates a CEL condition even though the CEL is not lit. DSMLink fixes the "MIL Bug" and has lots of other nifty features.

4. Take your car and the failing smog test to the state's emission control lab and point out that your car's model year has a known problem with setting the readiness monitors. If they're real nice they will give you a waiver.

 

[ndilo21]

I live in New York and I had the same problems. I made a thread about it way back but apparently this problem was not common enough for people to help me out at that point. I eventually just gave up on the testing and have been driving around with no inspection sticker on my car for around 6 months. I get pulled over for it fairly often but usually the cop lets me go when I explain the situation. If he is not in a good mood and gives me the ticket anyway, I take it to court, bring paperwork and explain my situation to the judge. Every ticket has been thrown away. I moved to Ohio for school about a month ago and don't have to worry about the inspection stickers out here because the cops don't know what a NY inspection sticker looks like. I have a 95 eprom ecu and another spare ecu (2g obviously) but I'm not sure of the exact year. I didn't have the chance to mess around with ecu swapping because I left for school when I finally got the ecu's. This "little" problem has cost me a lot of money in failed inspections and spare ecu's. It has also been an extreme waste of my time messing with drive cycles and court dates so often. It really bothers me that there is nothing that Mitsu is doing to attempt to fix this problem and if I can't get either of the ecu's to work I will have to pay the $118-$236 for their once a year "solution." Is there anything that can be done on a higher level to get some actual help or reimbursement with this problem? Sorry about the long post I just read this and had to vent.

 

[SoonToBeDSM06]

Not sure if this has been covered yet but the Palm version of DSMLink v2 has a feature that lets you set your monitors to complete at the push of a button. Only the Palm version can do this though thanks to Hal for writing it. It will pay off after 4 years as the dealer will charge just as much plus the added benifits of tuning with such software. I hope this helps our you guys a bit.

 

[ndilo21]

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead but I'm going home for thanksgiving and I'm trying to get this situation taken care of. I also need to do it because I couldn't get my new registration without proof of inspection. I have a 95 eprom ecu and I'm planning on swapping that into my car so I can pass. I'm not worried about the new bugs it causes as long as I can get an inspection sticker, then I will just put my original ecu back in the car. I hope this will work, if anyone knows anything about it let me know. Also what is the correct firing order with the 95 eprom ecu? I'm going to search for it now, but if someone know's it off the top of their head it would help. Thanks guys.

If all else fails I guess I'm just going to have to pay Mitsu the $118 to have them reset the monitors with the MUT-II, but I figured this would be worth a try.

 

[ndilo21]

Found this:
"We can't control spark firing order in the EPROM at crank time. So even with CAS inversion, you still have to swap plug wire 1 with 2 and 3 with 4"

Anyone want to confirm?

 

[ndilo21]

I tried usung the EPROM ecu and the obd-II computer couldn't even communicate with it. How are you guys with DSMLink getting inspection with the new obd-II tests?

 

[toojung2die]

I tried usung the EPROM ecu and the obd-II computer couldn't even communicate with it. How are you guys with DSMLink getting inspection with the new obd-II tests?

Something is wrong. I've had no problem getting my OBD-II reader to communicate with the '95 EPROM ECU. In fact, as I stated in an earlier post, the '95 ECU set the readiness monitors after an hour of normal driving. Pocketlogger communicates as well. The '95 EPROM ECUs are OBD-II enabled so there must be something wrong with your ECU or the installation though it's next to impossible to install it incorrectly. The problem I have with the EPROM ECU is the "MIL Bug" that indicates a false "MIL is ON" when there are no DTCs logged and the CEL is off. This would cause a failed OBD-II smog test. The guys at DSMLink have told me they have heard of no one having problems passing smog using DSMLink and the EPROM ECU if the car has functioning smog systems.

 

[ndilo21]

Maybe it's just a bad ecu? I swapped the firing order and the car ran perfect, not cel's or anything. When I pluggeed the OBD-II scanner in it just said it couldn't communicate. I put the stock ecu back in and the scanner worked fine.

 

[toojung2die]

Maybe it's just a bad ecu? I swapped the firing order and the car ran perfect, not cel's or anything. When I pluggeed the OBD-II scanner in it just said it couldn't communicate. I put the stock ecu back in and the scanner worked fine.

That appears to be your problem. Can you try a different scanner? Auto parts stores may be willing to plug in their scanner for no charge.

 

[cb3016]

add me to the list, i'm incalifornia and i'v got MIL/Check engine flight FAIL on my smog sheet. EVERYTHING elses passed but this and my EGR which is an easy fix, so if i'm to understand this...i either try do the drive cycle and fail because of how hard they are or to go on my knees and go suck on mitsu's happy stick to have them manipulate my ecu to smog? man i just got done with them on my transfer case which ended it a big "thumbs up soldier" to them. Damn

 

[cb3016]

this is what I get on my Actron OBD-II Reader says

catalytic: Not Ready
O2 Sensors: Not ready
HO2 Sensors: Not Ready
Evap: Not Ready
everything else is either pass or N/A

on my pretest for smog it says EGR Fuctional: FAIL
MIL/CEL: FAIL
This vehicle failed the MIL/CEL engine light Test due to failure to successfully complete all OBD self tests.

Now aside from the EGR do I have the same problem where i need to go to Mitsu and shell out the $240 yes yes you heard me $240 for the one time fix and be doomed to have to pay $240 everytime i need to smog?

 

[cb3016]

I had the same problem a few months ago. I drove around for months and it still didn't set. I posted a similar thread and got a response from "leet" who had the same problem, so you're not the only one. You have to get your OBD-II system reset. "leet" said after that his car passed fine. I called my local mitsubishi dealer and they said it would be about $300. I was lucky enough to find a guy to hook me up, wink wink . Getting it reset is the only way to set them.

does that mean the EGR won't work without it being SET or just wont show up in the monitor, or could it not being set in the ecu cause vaccum line to not have vaccume?

 

[duck95]

Not to reopen this dead thread, but I have a same/different condition. I have a 95 GSX, unknown if its the EPROM type or not. But when I bought the car this year it did not have a DTC. It smogged fine. I started the car dozens of time and had it for over a month. While I was working on the car one day, I disconnected the battery. Now, when I hookup my diagnostic tester, it says the MIL is on but no codes. It goes on to tell me that the emissions is not ready. So why did my ECU decide to suddenly reset. I've driven the car for about another month and it still gives me the emissions not ready. Anybody have any ideas on why it would suddenly change? I realize that some people who have satan reset theirs and get it smogged right away, still revert back to the not ready state when they shut the car off. But why was mine fine, but then suddenly go to not ready?

 

[toojung2die]

Not to reopen this dead thread, but I have a same/different condition. I have a 95 GSX, unknown if its the EPROM type or not.

I doubt this topic will ever die nor should it. There's Good news/Bad news for you. The good news is you don't have to worry about the false "MIL is ON" indication when you scan the ECU. OBD-II was not federally mandated for smog until 1996 so your 1995 GSX doesn't have to pass the OBD-II part of smog tests. You'll get a tail pipe test. If it passes and the Check Engine Light is off you're good to go. They don't OBD-II scan pre-1996 cars so the false "MIL is ON" indication doesn't matter.

The bad news is the "MIL is ON" indication you're getting without the "Check Engine Light" illuminating or any DTC's logging is known as the '95 MIL Bug. It was also present in many '96 ECU's and Mitsubishi had a recall for the '96 ECU for this reason. They didn't have to fix the '95 ECU's for this bug because they weren't legally forced to fix it. OBD-II didn't take effect until '96. You're stuck with this problem but fortunately you can ignore it because you have a '95.

DSMLink fixes the MIL Bug. It allows you to put the '95 ECU with the bug in later model years. I now have DSMLink and a '95 ECU in my '97 GSX. The ECU originally had the MIL Bug but after installing the DSMLink EPROM it is gone. DSMLink has the only chip that will fix the MIL Bug to my knowledge.

 

[c5chris]

If I still had the same problem smogging, I would gladly pay for a DSMLINK and a 95 EPROM ECU.

$240 for a temporary "band-aid" fix problem from the dealer is too much. They normally charge $120 for that here.

I bought a '99 ECU and that's the one I connect to my car to smog. Passes every time.

 

[akdsmer]

The dealer is charging $120-240 not to "set the computer", but to put the car in to a higher sensitivity mode that allows the monitors to set more quickly. The computer is still testing the components, but under easier drivecycles. I visit my friendly local dealer and borrow their laptop to do cars that have this problem. I also think this doesn't follow what is required of the manufacturer and have even addressed this issue to the EPA during our I/M conference calls. Unfortunately, there are higher priorities at EPA, but I will beat the dead horse again on the 5th of December for all you 2g'rs

On another note, the drivecycles are indeed achievable, but since the drivecycle has to be properly performed once, then again to get the monitors to set, there are additional non-emission components that can cause the monitors not to set. Things like weak batteries, bad starters will allow the battery voltage to drop too far during cranking. This voltage level is around 9V and will reset the computer. Those without labscopes won't be able to see this problem since it happens so quickly-less than 20 milliseconds. Also idle switches defective, improperly set, Coolant temperature not high enough or does not reach operating temperature soon enough. You want to see if it's a voltage drop problem? Take a jumppak with you (portable battery) that you connect whenever you start the vehicle. Sure you look stupid "jumpstarting you car", but I got kinda tired of running the test for everyone. If the monitors set after two drivecycles, then you have a voltage drop problem whether the battery, cables, starter, or such. I have gotten all but the 96 mirages to set using the proper drivecycle with proper inputs from the computer and good starting systems. Saabs and Volvos have this problem as well.

 

[toojung2die]

On another note, the drivecycles are indeed achievable, but since the drivecycle has to be properly performed once, then again to get the monitors to set, there are additional non-emission components that can cause the monitors not to set. Things like weak batteries, bad starters will allow the battery voltage to drop too far during cranking.

This is very useful information to me and potentially hundreds or thousands of 2G owners! I have a Fluke digital VOM that logs. Hopefully it'll be fast enough to capture the voltage dip you described. Would the best place to monitor the voltage be the battery back-up voltage input to the ECU? (ECU connector B-56, pin 80) Would this symptom (voltage drop) account for the fact that the monitors are reset even after the dealer sets them using the MUT-II?

 

[akdsmer]

This is very useful information to me and potentially hundreds or thousands of 2G owners! I have a Fluke digital VOM that logs. Hopefully it'll be fast enough to capture the voltage dip you described. Would the best place to monitor the voltage be the battery back-up voltage input to the ECU? (ECU connector B-56, pin 80) Would this symptom (voltage drop) account for the fact that the monitors are reset even after the dealer sets them using the MUT-II?

The fluke will likely not be fast enough. With my Fluke Scopemeter I can get 100 megasamples per second. Your meter is probably only getting a couple hundred. EDIT: A fluke 88 updates the display 4 times a second. Without min/max you will likely not see it. On min/max usually the response time is 100ms- that means if the voltage does not maintain at that level for 100ms, you will not see it. You may have a peak function and if you use that you might be able to see it, but when it's graphed you can see exactly what it did, plus look at the diodes, look for the a/c ripple, battery bounceback voltage and the like. I'll try it tomorrow and compare my meters and scope.

The quick way to test the battery and starter is at the battery. To check all the circuit for Voltage drops (Vds) you will have to check each power and ground circuit. I haven't come across a mitsu with a Vd on it's circuits, but only plenty of other vehicles. That means I still always check them, I don't like cars to get the best of me.

As for the MUT-II or III, the enhanced mode is designed to reset upon key-off and with it the monitors. It is really only designed for the factory technician to verify his repairs without the complicated two trip process. I did contact the EPA administrator to have this topic added to the agenda (time permitting). We'll see...

 

[akdsmer]

Here is what a bad starter does and why it resets the computer...

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The line marked A (channel A) shows the voltage dropping to just under 8 volts. Within 100ms the voltage is back up to 10V. A meter would likely show you a voltage at around this point.

The line marked B (channel B) is amperage and you can see that each line is 200A and the line rises 4 lines (=800 Amps). The battery is not the problem here, neither are bad connections or bad cables. The starter is hanging up and requiring too much current to get it spinning. Of course, this could also be a motor that has too tight of clearances, Thick oil and cold starts or ...maybe about to sqwak to a stop!

You see that the voltage drops well under the 9.5V that can reset the PCM. For many vehicles this isn't a problem, but Mitsubishis have always had capacitor problems and I believe that this problem could be resolved by appropriate sized (or maybe just good) capacitors in the PCM to hold it over during this very short period.

 

[toojung2die]

Here is what a bad starter does and why it resets the computer...
<image deleted>
The line marked A (channel A) shows the voltage dropping to just under 8 volts. Within 100ms the voltage is back up to 10V. A meter would likely show you a voltage at around this point.

So you diagnosed the failing component in this instance to be the starter and nothing else was required to eliminate the excessive voltage drop?

Thinking back to over three years ago when I first discovered the problem on my '97 GST, I had three monitors set during the smog test, not enough to pass. The tech reset my ECU and all the monitors. I have never had a readiness monitor complete since then. I also replaced the stock battery about that time with Walmart brand. I'll try the hold feature on my Fluke 87 and see if it shows a drop similar to what you demonstrated. I have an o-scope but it's an old analog and doesn't log input. May be I can get my hands on one of the newer digital jobs at work...

It's not hard to believe but when I complain about this problem to the Mitsubishi dealer service dept. they claim that losing the readiness monitors between starts is normal. Good to know my suspicions have been confirmed that this is NOT normal OBD-II behavior.