New head gasket better than Cometic!

[sherwinz28]

I myself have always been someone to try out an item that has not been around a long while. A ginea pig if you will. I have always been like that. If the part works flawlessly for me, then thats great, and more people will folow. If the parts fails after a short while under no circumstance that it should have failed, I will let people know so they can stay away, plus I have the time, parts, knowledge to fix the problem if it fails.

I know the MLS gaskets have been around a long time, and that they are tried and true, but I have always been optimistic about new parts.

We need more people like you. I don't have tons of money or free time so guys like you that test out parts and let us know what works save guys like me time and money.

Seriously thanks. I'll still stick with the Mitsu MLS this time around but maybe next time I'll try this gasket....hopefully there won't be a next time though.

 

[sleek98]

does the head/block need to be as smooth as the cometic needs to be? i cant take out my block from the car but i can get it really smooth.

also will a 85.75mm bore work with .020 bore? (i dont know the stock bore)

chris

 

[TSi999]

SEX

Those pics of the block DSM Pr0n.

 

[sleek98]

has anyone installed this with out decking the block? or whats teh best way to do it with the block still in the car?

chris

 

[project_tsi]

has anyone installed this with out decking the block? or whats teh best way to do it with the block still in the car?

chris

My advice if using a MLS gasket (cometic, OEM MLS), is to have to block decked. Last year I was in the same boat you are in. I was looking for a good gasket but I also didn't want to tear apart the engine. I did my best job at preparing the block deck surface, and it was very smooth, but it was not perfect enough to seal w/out any sealer spray. My advice to prepare the surface w/ razor blades and air powered gasket remover pads. These go a great job at providing a smooth nice surface, but it won't do anything if there is warpage.
I also suggest if using a MLS to use some sort of spray sealer. I did not, and it didn't hold. People will disagree and argue with me but that is where I stand on the subject.

If you'r going to use the new SCE Titan ICS HG, then follow the same block deck prep like I have mentioned, but do not use any spray sealer. The HG is designed to not use any other sealers. It already has built in silicone water/oil jacket sealers, and built in steel wire o ring for sealing the cylinders.

So, you can properly prep a block deck surface. It is possible. Put rags inside the cylinders, and use razors, as well as air powered gasket remover pads, those work wondeers. After, you can always wet draw sand the deck as well.

 

[sleek98]

where do you get these pad from? like can you get a link so i can see what they look like.

thanks a bunch

 

[project_tsi]

where do you get these pad from? like can you get a link so i can see what they look like.

thanks a bunch

Here you go.

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=egnsearch.asp&N=115+400430+301465&autoview=sku

 

[wickedtsi]

Darrin from Fast Forward Connecton had told me that all the Titan ICS gaskets for the 4G63 will work for a stock bore to a +.040" bore. I too have a block that is +.020" over so I had the same concern.

 

[TurboDSM90]

This headgasket leaked right after the first trip to the track. I didn't notice it much until it got worse(I was in denial).

Pulled the head threw in an oem mls with copper spray and it held fine. I then bent a valve soon after All in one weekend!

 

[GVR4592]

This headgasket leaked right after the first trip to the track. I didn't notice it much until it got worse(I was in denial).

Pulled the head threw in an oem mls with copper spray and it held fine. I then bent a valve soon after All in one weekend!

Was it one of the coolant o-rings?

 

[TurboDSM90]

it blew on both sides, from the combustion chambers to ......well...... Ill post a pic. Sorry I gotta get my friends digi-cam. Havent had time/money to buy a good one.

BTW it blew on the head AND block side. BR stage 3 block, freshly resurfaced head. It was done right trust me.

 

[project_tsi]

it blew on both sides, from the combustion chambers to ......well...... Ill post a pic. Sorry I gotta get my friends digi-cam. Havent had time/money to buy a good one.

BTW it blew on the head AND block side. BR stage 3 block, freshly resurfaced head. It was done right trust me.

Did it blow like this one?

 

[GVR4592]

Did it blow like this one?

Wow, from the description of your issues in your other thread I didn't think it was going to be that bad. Was there any signs of detonation? How do the pistons look?

 

[project_tsi]

Wow, from the description of your issues in your other thread I didn't think it was going to be that bad. Was there any signs of detonation? How do the pistons look?

Take a look at my other thread, I posted more pics with it. The pistons look ok but I'm not sure about the walls. And yes I had some detonation but I posted some logs in another thread I started and we can't figure out why it was kocking so bad, In all aspects we think it is an electrical problem or something but now I'm not so sure.

 

[wickedtsi]

Take a look at my other thread, I posted more pics with it. The pistons look ok but I'm not sure about the walls. And yes I had some detonation but I posted some logs in another thread I started and we can't figure out why it was kocking so bad, In all aspects we think it is an electrical problem or something but now I'm not so sure.

How much boost were you running? It looks like you must have had a lot of detonation, you were lucky that it was just the head gasket.

 

[wickedtsi]

it blew on both sides, from the combustion chambers to ......well...... Ill post a pic. Sorry I gotta get my friends digi-cam. Havent had time/money to buy a good one.

BTW it blew on the head AND block side. BR stage 3 block, freshly resurfaced head. It was done right trust me.

Just curoius, when you installed the head gasket did you start up the car and let it idle and warm up to temp, let it fully cool down and re-torque the head bolts? This is a common practice when copper gaskets are involved.

 

[groundPork]

In general I find that the cause of an inpropper seal of a head gasket is because of poor machine and/or prepp work. I also have noticed that regardless of who made the MLS or Metal head gasket they usually hold upwards of 30 psi no problem. With four cylinder engines it's not normally the horse power that can't be contained, it's the huge spikes in cylinder pressure caused by detonation. One thing people don't realize, is MLS HG's need a very smooth surface (and very flat... more important) to seal completely. If you think about it, MLS have very little elongation to them (don't stretch) to accomodate an uneven surface such as one that is slightly warped or machined with a curvature to it. I often find that I still have to hand lapp down the rough finish of most machine shops to get an ideal surface roughness, and I always (and you should too before ever assembling a head onto a block) check the deck with a straight edge and feeler gauges. For MLS I don't allow any more than .002" warp across the entire length of the deck surface if I can help it. Propper torque sequence is also very important.

I find that while a lot of aftermarket companies tote their stuff as better than anyone, For the most part they are usually only as good as the OEM, or appear better becasause they bandaid another problem. Using gasket spray or gasket maker, or RTV is often another bandaid for problems caused by bad machine work, or incorrect install and prep procedure. Spray ons and others can be useful, don't get me wrong, but if your taking the time to rebuild an engine out of the car, or do a top end rebuild w/ upgrades, it's not a very good idea to hold everything togather with glue...

Also, we should always concider, that it's usually cheaper to replace blown HG than a cracked block. Sometimes it's better for the expendable HG to let go so the block or rotating parts are saved.

My 22 cents...

 

[coltboostin]

Stock Autozone Felpro FTW.

Man, if you guys only knew. Not to sound like a ####, but why fix somthing that is not broken? I am STILL on stock HG/ stock head bolts, with only an O-ring'd head. With that, I have made XXXwheel hp, and gone 10.5@148, repeatedly, and raced nearly every dam liter bike in the area, with no issue.

And no, my block was not decked. No tricks, no sprays, no majic $200
Head gaskets.

 

[4SFED4]

I have 3 motors running O-ringed blocks and reciever grooved heads, using ARP head studs torqued to a max of 85 ft/lbs in 20 ft/lb increments. In each application the head was retorqued after an initial warm up, no boost or RPMs above 3000. All my engines are machined, balanced and assembled by the same private machinist. He also does ProMod motors, but I am the only DSMer that uses his services.
I have used the Fel-Pro, Mitsu MLS, SCE standard Copper and SCE Titan Copper over the last 4 years. All the SCE gaskets were .043 thickness.

The Mitsu MLS gasket started leaking oil on the bellhousing side of the engine after 8,000 miles and I attemped to retorque it again with no avail. That engine never seen more than 30 psi. It was replaced with a Fel-Pro(by reccomendation of a certain "Pro DSM" shop) that popped the second time it seen 25psi. It ran a SCE Titan for another 3000 miles or so with no problems. It met its end with melted pistons, unrelated to any h/g problems.

I tried a few standard SCE Coppers, under 30 psi I had zero problems. Once I started running over 30 psi I started pushing water around and retorquing was only a temporary fix for another pass. I tried different sealants, Permatex Copper coat worked the best and Aviation glue was a waste of time, a $60 gasket and made one hell of a mess. I then moved to a Titan gasket that required no type of sealant and it has performes fine up to 35psi, No water or oil leaks for about 4000 miles of hard driving(no less than 25psi WOT).

The 3rd motor had a Titan installed off the bat, once I'm done breaking it in, it will be seeing 40+psi of boost. It has roughly has 1500 miles with no forseen problems yet.

I have no experiance with the Titan ICS.

 

[wishihadatalon]

Stock Autozone Felpro FTW.

Man, if you guys only knew. Not to sound like a ####, but why fix somthing that is not broken? I am STILL on stock HG/ stock head bolts, with only an O-ring'd head. With that, I have made XXXwheel hp, and gone 10.5@148, repeatedly, and raced nearly every dam liter bike in the area, with no issue.

And no, my block was not decked. No tricks, no sprays, no majic $200
Head gaskets.

no knock ftw

 

[coltboostin]

no knock ftw

On only 110 as well.

Breaking through common misconseptions of stock ignition/valves/valvesprings, HG's, HG bolts, Main bolts, fuel rails......

FTW.

 

[diambo4life]

Still running that same OEM HG with copper spray + ARPs. No tricks here either. Seen a max of 30-31psi with no problems.

Sucks to hear about your issues dude.

 

[wishihadatalon]

my guess is that you guys read your plugs and don't rely on the stock sensor? That is what I have been told will give you best results.

 

[4SFED4]

My problem only arises at the 1000ft or later of a 1/4 mile. I have been able to run 1/8 mile many times and no problems. I think the big contribution to my problem is running A/Ts in both cars. Once I build boost and leave with it, the motor is under constant pressure until the end of the pass. I have never experianced these continued h/g problems with a 5spd car.

 

[GVR4592]

I have 3 motors running O-ringed blocks and reciever grooved heads, using ARP head studs torqued to a max of 85 ft/lbs in 20 ft/lb increments. In each application the head was retorqued after an initial warm up, no boost or RPMs above 3000. All my engines are machined, balanced and assembled by the same private machinist. He also does ProMod motors, but I am the only DSMer that uses his services.
I have used the Fel-Pro, Mitsu MLS, SCE standard Copper and SCE Titan Copper over the last 4 years. All the SCE gaskets were .043 thickness.

The Mitsu MLS gasket started leaking oil on the bellhousing side of the engine after 8,000 miles and I attemped to retorque it again with no avail. That engine never seen more than 30 psi. It was replaced with a Fel-Pro(by reccomendation of a certain "Pro DSM" shop) that popped the second time it seen 25psi. It ran a SCE Titan for another 3000 miles or so with no problems. It met its end with melted pistons, unrelated to any h/g problems.

I tried a few standard SCE Coppers, under 30 psi I had zero problems. Once I started running over 30 psi I started pushing water around and retorquing was only a temporary fix for another pass. I tried different sealants, Permatex Copper coat worked the best and Aviation glue was a waste of time, a $60 gasket and made one hell of a mess. I then moved to a Titan gasket that required no type of sealant and it has performes fine up to 35psi, No water or oil leaks for about 4000 miles of hard driving(no less than 25psi WOT).

The 3rd motor had a Titan installed off the bat, once I'm done breaking it in, it will be seeing 40+psi of boost. It has roughly has 1500 miles with no forseen problems yet.

I have no experiance with the Titan ICS.

Did you use moly lube on the ARP studs? What was the surface finish(RA) of your block and cylinder head when using the MLS gasket? Did you have any detonation when your gaskets failed?