Need help choosing (Intake Mani or CAMS)

[shadowdrag]

Like the title stated, just need to know what is best for my set up now and for almost the same amount.

Will the CAMS give me more power then the intake manifold or vise versa for my set up.


Thanks

 

[silver bullit]

If you get cams you mine as well do lifters, springs, retainers, if you do intake mani, you will have to get it tapped for nawz for later use if you wanna spry or plug the holes, and throttle body if you wanna use bigger.

 

[LaN-]

Get a set of FP2's with Brian cower springs and retainers. Replace your valve seals while your in there.

The amount of power your going to gain with new cams and a stock intake manifold will beat a sheet metal intake and stock cams.

You don't NEED the springs and retainers, but its always a good idea.

The intake manifold won't really be taken advantage of unless you have the cams first. The stock cams just don't flow enough.

 

[shadowdrag]

Thanks for the fast replies. I forgot to mention that my motor is still 10k miles new (stock long block). So I guess I should go with CAMS, is this a easy job to do. I did lifters before but I was not 100% sure if I did them correctly.

Well, if I go with CAMS, should I go ahead and get CAM gears also. Its like 150 extra or so.

Thanks

 

[daren_p]

Like was said cams will net you bigger gains vs SMIM, stock cams are done well before the area where a SMIM starts to shine.

 

[1G90AWDTsi]

I got HKS cams 264/272 and I found out they're pretty much worthless unless I am either on the drag or doing 100 on the highway, anyway I wish I still had my stock cams. Plus I had to get bigger injectors and dsmlink to scale them and that got expensive real fast. Like I said, I wish I still had my stock cams...they are underated.

 

[LaN-]

I got HKS cams 264/272 and I found out they're pretty much worthless unless I am either on the drag or doing 100 on the highway, anyway I wish I still had my stock cams. Plus I had to get bigger injectors and dsmlink to scale them and that got expensive real fast. Like I said, I wish I still had my stock cams...they are underated.

I disagree with that. I put my cams in and say a good power increase in top. You will lose a small amount of power down low but its well worth it in the end in any gear. If you got cams and didn't already have bigger injectors you had a messed up mod path.

Only time you should upgrade your cams is when you have everything else done. I wouldn't recommend them unless you have a 16g or bigger.

Same goes for your dsmlink comment. You should already have all the required tuning tools prior to buying cams. There also is no need to purchase dsmlink for cams, a simple chip you can burn yourself for 100 bucks or 10 bucks from a friend will work just fine.

If you do plan on getting cams, i recommend FP2's and make sure you up your idle to around 850.

 

[1G90AWDTsi]

I disagree with that. I put my cams in and say a good power increase in top. You will lose a small amount of power down low but its well worth it in the end in any gear. If you got cams and didn't already have bigger injectors you had a messed up mod path.

Only time you should upgrade your cams is when you have everything else done. I wouldn't recommend them unless you have a 16g or bigger.

Same goes for your dsmlink comment. You should already have all the required tuning tools prior to buying cams. There also is no need to purchase dsmlink for cams, a simple chip you can burn yourself for 100 bucks or 10 bucks from a friend will work just fine.

If you do plan on getting cams, i recommend FP2's and make sure you up your idle to around 850.

My engine is fully built with forged internals, port/polished head, big 16g, tubular exhaust manifold.....I just don't like the loss in the lower rpms since I not always up in 8K all the time.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

I got HKS cams 264/272 and I found out they're pretty much worthless unless I am either on the drag or doing 100 on the highway

you'd really hate the BC 280's then haha just giving you a hard time man. get cam gears if you anal about the phase between your crank and cams. I am, just my 2 cents

 

[LaN-]

My engine is fully built with forged internals, port/polished head, big 16g, tubular exhaust manifold.....I just don't like the loss in the lower rpms since I not always up in 8K all the time.

You don't need to be at 8k to see the power. The cams come alive around 5k. I'm not saying your going to lose a lot of power down low, but you do lose a little. Same thing happens if you get a intake manifold. You gain it up top but lose it down low. You've also got to remember if you have a build engine and you decide to get cams your going to be reving higher which changes your power band. So you'll always be in higher RPM's.

The thing is that 16g isn't going to hold boost up top when you start pushing it really hard. The Ported / Polished head and the cams are going to increase spool time and make the turbo drop off more boost. The 16g just can't keep up with how much air your engine is flowing.

The power increase from the cams is well worth it.

 

[92awddsm]

My engine is fully built with forged internals, port/polished head, big 16g, tubular exhaust manifold.....I just don't like the loss in the lower rpms since I not always up in 8K all the time.

You have some severe tuning issues if you are in the 8k rpm range to make power with just a 16g. Hell, I have comp custom grind 101200's and a 60-1 and my power range will exceed 7500, but I hardly go above that. With your setup, your power range should be somewhere between 4000-7800 rpm, turbo limited. And why did you find it necessary to have a built engine with such a small turbo?

I agree, cams before smim. The smim will cause a noticable loss in low end and run out of steam quickly in top end with stock cams.

 

[daren_p]

My engine is fully built with forged internals, port/polished head, big 16g, tubular exhaust manifold.....I just don't like the loss in the lower rpms since I not always up in 8K all the time.

The cam upgrade you went with is fairly mild & overall the loss in the bottom end should be pretty minimal & barely noticeable, if it is then something else is up. Not sure if the 8K comment was an exageration to make your point but if it is true, there is no way you should be reving anyweres close to that. That cam setup & turbo combo should be done making its power well before 8K (like in the 6K range). Are you sure the cams are installed correctly (ie not a tooth out on the timing belt?). What kind of idle vacuum (at what rpm) are you seeing? If your out a tooth, this can result in slow spool. Your setup should make lots of power in the 3500-6500 range. Do you plan on ever upgrading your turbo? If not, why didn't you go with the straight up 264's as you seem to want low/mid range power, which is where this setup preforms. The 264/272 combo will give up some low/mid for slightly more top end. If your sticking with that size of turbo & want a set of cams that create a tonn of power/torque in the low/mid range, swap to a set of FP1X cams.

 

[shadowdrag]

[./QUOTE]If you do plan on getting cams, i recommend FP2's and make sure you up your idle to around 850


Sounds great, I will start my ordering process sometime today. This is what I am looking for, high end power. My 60-1 turbo hits full boost (21) at 4300 rpms and my car laggs at low end but the full jerking hardcore pulls stronge at 4.3k all the way to redline compensates for it. I also have pretty much all the mods that I can and hopefully this will gain me more hardcore pulls at top end. I'll have to order another chip from Jeff.

I rode in my friends TT supra(455WHP) and I hope to acheive such a top end passenger seat suction pull.


Thanks

 

[LaN-]

[./QUOTE]If you do plan on getting cams, i recommend FP2's and make sure you up your idle to around 850


Sounds great, I will start my ordering process sometime today. This is what I am looking for, high end power. My 60-1 turbo hits full boost (21) at 4300 rpms and my car laggs at low end but the full jerking hardcore pulls stronge at 4.3k all the way to redline compensates for it. I also have pretty much all the mods that I can and hopefully this will gain me more hardcore pulls at top end. I'll have to order another chip from Jeff.

I rode in my friends TT supra(455WHP) and I hope to acheive such a top end passenger seat suction pull.


Thanks

Hold on a second. Are you getting rid of the 16g? What turbo do you plan on running in the end the 60 trim? What are you goals for the car?

If your going to stay with the 16g i'd get fp2's. If your going to go real big (60 trim) you might almost wanna look into something like FP2x or Fp3, but you will be required to get springs or double springs.

Basically break down what you will be running and what your goals are. It seems we have some confusion in this post.

 

[shadowdrag]

Hold on a second. Are you getting rid of the 16g? What turbo do you plan on running in the end the 60 trim? What are you goals for the car?

If your going to stay with the 16g i'd get fp2's. If your going to go real big (60 trim) you might almost wanna look into something like FP2x or Fp3, but you will be required to get springs or double springs.

Basically break down what you will be running and what your goals are. It seems we have some confusion in this post.

Not sure if you guys looked at my profile but I have the PTE 3431RE 57Trim, but good catch.

My goals are to gain more top end power bands and trying to acheive at least 400+whp and a good 1/4 mile timeslip. I took my car in to get it tune by a local DSM tuning shop and he told me that my set up drives like a 350whp at 22psi.

[edit] He advise me to get either CAMs or IM so that the turbo can screem and pull much better at full boost.

 

[LaN-]

Not sure if you guys looked at my profile but I have the PTE 3431RE 57Trim, but good catch.

My goals are to gain more top end power bands and trying to acheive at least 400+whp and a good 1/4 mile timeslip. I took my car in to get it tune by a local DSM tuning shop and he told me that my set up drives like a 350whp at 22psi.

[edit] He advise me to get either CAMs or IM so that the turbo can screem and pull much better at full boost.

Ok then my first recommendation will work for you.

FP2's with some better springs will do just fine. If you want you can get some FP2x's but i'm not sure if you need them. Both me and my buddy are running FP2's and have seen a good increase in power. I'm also running a JMF intake manifold and you can really see a difference with that also.

 

[dsm-onster]

The advice given is exactly what I would recommend, for the most part. So you're in the right direction for sure, from what I know.

I will comment that the fp2 cam profile is not so different from the fp2Xs [ . . . reach for my flame suit. . .]. A *good* set of aftermarket single springs for half the price of duals and, if you're scared, a set of $20 machined shims is all that's neccesary for the fp2x or fp3 grinds. I've run mine to he!! and back for 10s of thousands of miles and didn't pay for $300+ dual springs. Nor did I upgrade to lighter retainers/valves/etc. The fp2x grind idles better than the fp2 (slightly) because of the ramp rate. It pulls a little bit better down low and up top, thanx to the ramp rate. Running the fp3s straight up will net more down low and lessen top end as teh overlap will yield much quicker spool. You'll also have more idle issues for the same reason. Otherwise, the ramp rates, duration, and lift are all dentical to the fp2Xs. So whatever spring you can use w/ the fp2X profile, the same can be used w/ the fp3. Perhaps a little less because of the fp3s will retire earlier in the rev range and it would be pointless to take them farther for no benefit.

My Manley singles and otherwise stock valvetrain have taken fp2Xs to 8500 rpms as a daily driver. The 60-1 turbo I have run loved it . Until it blew. And completely exhausts my small 16g. All w/ the stock intake manifold. It's a great grind and a far better choice than a SMIM for the same price. The best would be both a SMIM and the fp2Xs .

 

[1G90AWDTsi]

you'd really hate the BC 280's then haha just giving you a hard time man. get cam gears if you anal about the phase between your crank and cams. I am, just my 2 cents

You know I've been thinking about cam gears but I don't know anything about them, do you think it'd make a noticeable difference?

 

[1G90AWDTsi]

The cam upgrade you went with is fairly mild & overall the loss in the bottom end should be pretty minimal & barely noticeable, if it is then something else is up. Not sure if the 8K comment was an exageration to make your point but if it is true, there is no way you should be reving anyweres close to that. That cam setup & turbo combo should be done making its power well before 8K (like in the 6K range). Are you sure the cams are installed correctly (ie not a tooth out on the timing belt?). What kind of idle vacuum (at what rpm) are you seeing? If your out a tooth, this can result in slow spool. Your setup should make lots of power in the 3500-6500 range. Do you plan on ever upgrading your turbo? If not, why didn't you go with the straight up 264's as you seem to want low/mid range power, which is where this setup preforms. The 264/272 combo will give up some low/mid for slightly more top end. If your sticking with that size of turbo & want a set of cams that create a tonn of power/torque in the low/mid range, swap to a set of FP1X cams.

Good to know, I think I will definitely check out those cams. I had my dsm built with advice because I didn't know jack about dsms at all. Now, knowing what I do it's true, I am not happy with my cams. I still haven't had my car tuned at all except for scaling the 750s. Thanks for the advice...by the way I am sorry for stepping on the original threader's shoes

 

[1G90AWDTsi]

You have some severe tuning issues if you are in the 8k rpm range to make power with just a 16g. Hell, I have comp custom grind 101200's and a 60-1 and my power range will exceed 7500, but I hardly go above that. With your setup, your power range should be somewhere between 4000-7800 rpm, turbo limited. And why did you find it necessary to have a built engine with such a small turbo?

I agree, cams before smim. The smim will cause a noticable loss in low end and run out of steam quickly in top end with stock cams.

I never had my car properly tuned, it's on the priority list though absolutely! My turbo still set at the factory boost too...pretty sad huh? I definitely am going to set things right with this talon, just a matter of $$ at the moment. I had it set up pretty good last year, but then spun all the bearings and it kinda screwed me up with the repair costs.

 

[daren_p]

I never had my car properly tuned, it's on the priority list though absolutely! My turbo still set at the factory boost too...pretty sad huh? I definitely am going to set things right with this talon, just a matter of $$ at the moment. I had it set up pretty good last year, but then spun all the bearings and it kinda screwed me up with the repair costs.

Not having your setup properly tuned, defently isn't going to help you see the results your looking for from your setup. Like I said if the cams are lined up properly, I really don't think you should notice much loss at all in the lower end (but yes there will me minimal loss). What kind of vacuum are you seeing @ what idle rpm?

I will say the FP1X's cams are great in the low/mid range, I think I maybe lost 100 rpms in spool but am still seeing peak torque in the ~4500 range & it is a good amount of torque . According to logs, airflow, 1/4 mile times/speeds, my car is making around 330-340 whp & according to my logs my DSMlink torque estimate reads the same as my hp. When you compare to most other logs guys aren't seeing this kind of torque until their running 4 or so psi more, compared to me & thats even with larger 272 varient cams & sometimes on larger turbos.

Now with that being said before you go out & spend/waste anymore money, first I would get your current setup up & running properly so you can up that boost where you want it & get a proper tune. You never know, this may change your opinion & your current cams may be alright in the long run.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Looking at your profile, intake manifold is unimportant now plus you want a big turbo to gain power with an intake manifold. You first to go with engine internals first like pistons, rods, heads, etc...