need a definitive answer on lash adjusters (lifters)

[anubis]

i've been searching the forums for an hour or so. i'm trying to figure out what lifters of mine i should use for my rebuild. help from wisemen/mitsu techs would be nice.

i've got about 40 of these suckers laying around. about 12 of them can easily be moved up and down with no problem. however, when i push them down, they stay down. when i pull them up, they fall down. i believe this is a collapsed lifter, right? ok... so what? is that bad? i can't seem to find an answer one way or the other. in my mind, i wouldn't think this is bad because once the oil starts pumping, it would push these up and they'd be fine. i don't really know.

then, i have about 6 that can be depressed slightly with force and push back up. i tried the paperclip trick, but it makes no difference. i'm thinking these need to soak for a while and should be fine.

the rest of them are rock solid. can't depress them at all. i've got them all soaking in mineral spirits to try to clean out all the old gunk. even after soaking for about an hour, i can barely spin the lifter in the cylinder - let alone trying to depress it. i assume that i shouldn't put these in the head becuase if they don't depress at all, it would cause damage to the valvetrain.

so which lash adjusters should be used? like i said, i've been searching and i even called the dealer, but they're dumb and don't know what's going on. i'd like to get an answer soon. i don't want to have to go buy a set of 3g lifters, but if i have to i will. i also want to get this car done so my brother can drive it to the shootout this sunday.

please help!
thanks in advance,
-dexter

 

[TSIfreek]

The ones you have are the old version with the small hole on the top. I would put new 3g lifters in and call it a day. Its not worth putting the old ones back in if there going to give you problems down the road. Get the new stuff while you have it apart.

 

[Enraged78]

The ones you have are the old version with the small hole on the top. I would put new 3g lifters in and call it a day. Its not worth putting the old ones back in if there going to give you problems down the road. Get the new stuff while you have it apart.

Yeah, I second this. I've seen a collapsed 1G lifter eat it's way into a head before. It's not pretty. Get the 3G lifters and be done with lifter tick. Your knock sensor will thank you.

Matt.

 

[anubis]

i know i have the older version of the lifters... i'm not a n00b. and i know the benefits of the 3g lifters... i don't give a rat's arse about "lifter tick". i just want a reliable engine without breaking my bank.

i suppose i should have specified - this is a nt daily driver. nothing special. i'm not looking to spend a lot of money, i just want to put another dsm back on the road. if i have good lifters, i want to use them.

so could some one please answer my question and let me know which lifters are good and which ones are bad. i really don't want to spend $150 and buy new ones.

 

[anubis]

i just talked to chris at slowboy. he said i need a new set. the ones that are loose are bad and the ones that are rock hard are bad too. so it's the ones that are semi depressable are the closest to correct as i've got. it looks like i'm going to be ordering a new set pretty soon.

 

[GVR4592]

Before you go spending money that you might not need to, I would clean them and bleed them. If they are rock hard that usually means there is oil trapped inside, it comes out if you depress the plunger with a paperclip or a needle. It might just save you some money that could be spent on other things.

http://vfaq.com/mods/lifters.html

 

[anubis]

like i said before, i tried the paperclip method and still couldn't get them to depress. they were sitting in mineral spirits/acetone overnight and still didn't make a difference.

i ended up finding a guy on one of my local forums who sold me a set of 3g's for $100. i picked them up yesterday and put them in the head last night. wow, pictures don't do those lifters justice. the hole is HUGE compared to my originals.

 

[Naveed]

this is from the backsup manuals.

I am rebuilding my engine and I was wondering about my adjusters too....I dont want to bend any valves...this is my first rebuild so be gentle with my noobness...But I have been searching the forums tryin to figure out if my adjusters are good. And according to the vfaq and procedures by members on here...it is said that the adjusters that "spring back" are good ones...stiff ones are bad and ones that go down, but dont come back up..ar ebad as well.
Well all mine but 3 are stiff...but I also followed the procedure in the DSM factory manuals. But If I bleed them out ..they are ridgidly springy...if that makes sense.

anyhow this is a quote from the manuals :




11 B-32 ENGINE OVERHAUL <2.0L (4G6)> - Rocker, Arms anti. Cy$sh&f _, , ,,
INSTALLATION SERVICE POlhiTS,. *
.A4 L A S H A D J U S T E R INSTALL

(1) Immerse the lash adjuster in clean diesel fuel.

(2) Using a special tool, move the plunger up and down
4 or 5 times while pushing down lightly on the check
ball in order to bleed out the air.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But If I do that the LA's are so stiff I cant move them...so if i install them as the manuals state...wouldnt they bend the valves on startup???

 

[Naveed]

Or why would it matter to leave air in them if when you Prime the engine you are filling them right back up?


anyhow...on cleaning them out....would paint thinner work too?

think I am just gonna follow Vfaq.

what do you all think?

 

[TSIfreek]

Get new updated ones. There is no sence cleaning the old ones to have the problem down the road. The knock sensor pics up the lifters like a sponge on water and will pull timing. Its worth the 150$$ to put new ones in there while you have everything apart and wont have to pull them out in the future and have a quieter and better performing engine.

 

[Caithness]

I got my 3g lifters for 95 bucks shipped on ebay. Same ones that partsdinosaur has been selling for several years, that many people have reported success with.

 

[steve]

i know i have the older version of the lifters... i'm not a n00b. and i know the benefits of the 3g lifters... i don't give a rat's arse about "lifter tick". i just want a reliable engine without breaking my bank.

People gave you good advice that I see you wound up taking after all. Your coments here were unecessary, just say thanks and move on if you don't want to follow peoples advice.

Diesel fuel bleeds down quickly in the adjusters while still providing some protection during startup. You don't want to leave them dry or pumped up at startup. When using diesel they pretty much bleed down shortly after the rocker is installed do they won't cause the valuve to stay open or hit the pistons.

Steve

 

[Naveed]

well My concern was not lifter tick, like the originator of the thread I just want this rebuild to start and run..then worry about performance after it starts for the first time and runs efficiently.

so I got 3 3rd gen new lifters from a friend and have the old good condition old style lifters..can I mix them in with the new ones ..or would it cause a weird problem?

I wish I had the money but bringing up to life to this point has drained my funds...this is the next hurdle and im trying to get through it safely without putting me in bankruptcy. sp;

thanks for all the adviceso far!

 

[anubis]

People gave you good advice that I see you wound up taking after all. Your coments here were unecessary, just say thanks and move on if you don't want to follow peoples advice.

Steve

yeah... ok.

steve, i'm just going to leave this be as it is. i'm not in the mood to get into something trivial with a red-letter user (i've had a rough day and possibly took your comment the wrong way).



anyways, naveed, i'm not going to comment much on your latest question because i have no idea. no sense spreading false information/hope. i'm going to hazard a guess and say you're better off having lifters that are all the same.


as for an update, since this thread has been resurrected...
i fired up this engine tuseday night. lifter ticks like a mofo! i didn't leave it running for too long for fear of interference (personal history has made me paranoid). so i shut it off. at least it started. tonight i'm going to recheck the timing belt and see if i didn't jump timing or something. other than the 4g63 sounding like a cummins, everything is perfect.

how long does it take to get these 3g lifters to prime up on initial startup? and how noisy is it supposed to be? it's been over a year since i've rebuilt a 4g63 and i don't really remember. all i know is that 3g lifters are supposed to be "lifter tick free".

 

[TSIfreek]

Yea it will sound like a diesel for awile just let it Idle for 10 min and go out for a drive. The ticking should be completly gone with in a day it just gets less and less.

 

[anubis]

all right then. thanks for the reply.

is there anything else i should check for? i've read the other threads regarding 4g63's that sound like diesel engines and here's some of the other things that are mentioned:

rod knock (from spun bearing)
timing belt off a tooth or more
loose tensioner
spun balance shaft bearing
lifter tick

well i tore this engine down to the shortblock - i left the crank, rods, and pistons alone. i checked the rotating assembly and everything seemed fine. i removed the rear balance shaft completely and left the front one in and just didn't put the pulley on. everything else on this engine is completely stock with the exception of the 3g lifters. the only other thing worth mentioning is that i have the polyurethane mounts and no muffler (it's getting work done) - not sure if that makes any difference at all. so here's why i believe i can eliminate the other things:

rod knock- checked the rods for play and whatnot and everything seemed fine.
timing - i quadruple checked this. timing is dead on. even redid it again last night just to make sure.
tensioner - torqued to speck.
balance shaft - like i said, back one is gone and front one is inoperative.
lifter - again, used 3rd gen lifters... this shouldn't be a problem.

anyways, i haven't been able to take it for a spin because i still need to bleed the clutch. hopefully, you're right, kris. i did fire it up again last night and had the same diesel noise. i let it run for 20 minutes and i couldn't tell if it was getting quieter or if my ears were just getting used to it.

anyone else care to comment or have other ideas?