turboglenn
15+ Year Contributor
- 6,375
- 123
- Nov 5, 2007
-
RIpley,
West Virginia
Well, after getting my trans i built intothe car, filling the fluids, puttig everything else back in and checking operation, I was plased to notice that all gear were accesible wioth the engine running (although alittle notchy - but no morethan the new TRE FWD unit i bought in 2009)
I shimmed the input with .006 preload, the intermediate with .0075 preload and the center diff with .0075 preload. This made the input shaft almost impossible to turn by hand while off the car andin gear, but i was told this is normal with performance shimming by tuners member donniekak.
ONCE i was ready to test drve the car I took it around the block maybe 3/4 of a mile and noticed some grinding on the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts (but very light grinding) I wasn'texpecting perfect because i used all used gears and synchros becayse i needed the money for bearings, clips, roll pins and a nwe center diff (didn't want torun welded on my DD)
** Now, knowing my TRE shifted WAY better at higher RPM's than it did at lower ones mostly when new but through it's entire life really, so i decided to rev the gears out in this trans and see what happened. Much to my surprise any shifting over 4500-5k RPM was flawless, easily engaged and no grinding. I continued to put another 17-20 miles on the trans and with each low RPM shift (while waiting on the syncrhro and not forcing it) the shifts got better and better..with each couple of miles and shifts there was notable improvements, and i think part of this may be because although i lubed poarts while asembling, i probably didn't getthe shift rails and internal gear cluster parts lubed well enough and the driving helped get them oiled te morei drove.
note on the bad shifting: I found that the shift levers at the trans (or at least teh one that bolts on stansd up and down) was bent and causing a very stiff shifter feel, luckily I had my old one and swapped it on for an immediate cure
after blowing the last trans in third on a smooth pull (but one of many back-to-back dyno pulls) i decided to turn the boost down, not go WOT fully and use only about 3/4's the rev range ihave, everything was flawless, this trans has NONE of the noises the old one did meaning that oldone must have had some of the mostworn out bearins i've ever seen in a trans
During the build i picked allthe least worn gear/synchro combosfor each of them 1 through 5 and used the huibs andsliders with the least wear also.,the shift forks are brand new (cheap assurance of good shifts) and everything was done exactly accordingtothe book except forthe shimming spes and anothr thing Tim told me to do with position ofthe 1-2 slider.
Although the shimming is supposed to help the trans hold power i'm stillafraid toget the boost up and go for it, but i'msure i'll worl my way up there once i find extra transpaarts (all i need is a good intermediate shaft to buld a back-up transa at this point - anyone got one???)
Overall the job was easy, shimming beingthe most tedious because of the mistakes I made is solder choice for length of pieces used, but once that was established the only thing i had to really spend timeon was making the shims i didn't have by either cutting down larger diameter ones in the right thickness and putting themin smaller race holes, or by using some machinist shim stock and cutting a "backing shim" to go behind the ones i already had.
the time spent and the pain of workin on the car was the worst of it but without money to pay another person to do it ihad little choice, but now i'm confident in my tranny building skills
MY back up I hope tbuild with hopefully the Evo III 1st, 3rd ad 4th (or at leastthe 91-92 3rd 4th, hub and slider_ to make them tougher, I'll also take the time to debur and detail all the gears as well, and order them shot peened as well if money is there for this)
I would say the two things that made this job the easiest with removing and isntalling the trans was a 3/8th's air ratchet and an engine hoist which took at least an hour off the install and the AR taking another 45minutes off my normal time too)
One thing i did learn and will add to my tips thread is that minor blemishes are EASY to miss, I wuld have almost put in a bad 4th gear had i not taken the time to look over every tooth afterfinding some chips in another trans i was salvaging parts from. Another tool that greatly helps is the input shaft holder, I made mine from cutting the center out of a burnt OEM disk and welding it to a 1" socket. Wihtout this i would have been on the "penny trick" to get the 105 lb/ft end nut toque and i don't trust wedging anything between gears i want to last any amount of time
A press and bearing splitter/gear puller are two "must haves" to do it right (can get by wihtout spltter tim says) but i wouldn't gop wihtout at LEAST the OTC1123 model as i tried with the harbor freight units and had more trouble than success., and you don't need a 12-20ton press if you have welding equipment and some metal, I lengthened my 6 ton mini A-frame press from HF to be just long enough to dothre trans work and now i'd rather have it for thsi job than a huuge floor model because i can put it on my welding table, sit down and calmly do my work without straining my back or leg
I would say the HARDEST part of the entire job was lifting the t-CASE with driveshaft in it up into place during the re-assembly, that thing is like bench pressing with an arm tied t your head
Overall, to sum it all up, I'd say if you're mechanically inclined enough to not have to ask how to take it apart, or know how to buildan engine, change CV's or aout anything that a decent mecanic can do, then building a trans is within your realm as well. I'd say the most important part is paying maticulous attention to detail, and make sure there's no chipped teeth, that the synchro keys aren't worn but also that they don't pop off the springs when you're placing the slider over them (holding both synchros into the hub makes this easier) and aside from that justbe able to recognize if your solder checks just seem "out of the ordinary" when using new bearings especially
Tim Zimmer says he sees values in the .040 +/-.005 or so on both input and intermediate and closer to .050" on the center diff (there's a thread called "Gearbox shimming expert needed" where Tim lays out a good bit of info.
search for it, it's a good read!
I shimmed the input with .006 preload, the intermediate with .0075 preload and the center diff with .0075 preload. This made the input shaft almost impossible to turn by hand while off the car andin gear, but i was told this is normal with performance shimming by tuners member donniekak.
ONCE i was ready to test drve the car I took it around the block maybe 3/4 of a mile and noticed some grinding on the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts (but very light grinding) I wasn'texpecting perfect because i used all used gears and synchros becayse i needed the money for bearings, clips, roll pins and a nwe center diff (didn't want torun welded on my DD)
** Now, knowing my TRE shifted WAY better at higher RPM's than it did at lower ones mostly when new but through it's entire life really, so i decided to rev the gears out in this trans and see what happened. Much to my surprise any shifting over 4500-5k RPM was flawless, easily engaged and no grinding. I continued to put another 17-20 miles on the trans and with each low RPM shift (while waiting on the syncrhro and not forcing it) the shifts got better and better..with each couple of miles and shifts there was notable improvements, and i think part of this may be because although i lubed poarts while asembling, i probably didn't getthe shift rails and internal gear cluster parts lubed well enough and the driving helped get them oiled te morei drove.
note on the bad shifting: I found that the shift levers at the trans (or at least teh one that bolts on stansd up and down) was bent and causing a very stiff shifter feel, luckily I had my old one and swapped it on for an immediate cure
after blowing the last trans in third on a smooth pull (but one of many back-to-back dyno pulls) i decided to turn the boost down, not go WOT fully and use only about 3/4's the rev range ihave, everything was flawless, this trans has NONE of the noises the old one did meaning that oldone must have had some of the mostworn out bearins i've ever seen in a trans
During the build i picked allthe least worn gear/synchro combosfor each of them 1 through 5 and used the huibs andsliders with the least wear also.,the shift forks are brand new (cheap assurance of good shifts) and everything was done exactly accordingtothe book except forthe shimming spes and anothr thing Tim told me to do with position ofthe 1-2 slider.
Although the shimming is supposed to help the trans hold power i'm stillafraid toget the boost up and go for it, but i'msure i'll worl my way up there once i find extra transpaarts (all i need is a good intermediate shaft to buld a back-up transa at this point - anyone got one???)
Overall the job was easy, shimming beingthe most tedious because of the mistakes I made is solder choice for length of pieces used, but once that was established the only thing i had to really spend timeon was making the shims i didn't have by either cutting down larger diameter ones in the right thickness and putting themin smaller race holes, or by using some machinist shim stock and cutting a "backing shim" to go behind the ones i already had.
the time spent and the pain of workin on the car was the worst of it but without money to pay another person to do it ihad little choice, but now i'm confident in my tranny building skills
MY back up I hope tbuild with hopefully the Evo III 1st, 3rd ad 4th (or at leastthe 91-92 3rd 4th, hub and slider_ to make them tougher, I'll also take the time to debur and detail all the gears as well, and order them shot peened as well if money is there for this)
I would say the two things that made this job the easiest with removing and isntalling the trans was a 3/8th's air ratchet and an engine hoist which took at least an hour off the install and the AR taking another 45minutes off my normal time too)
One thing i did learn and will add to my tips thread is that minor blemishes are EASY to miss, I wuld have almost put in a bad 4th gear had i not taken the time to look over every tooth afterfinding some chips in another trans i was salvaging parts from. Another tool that greatly helps is the input shaft holder, I made mine from cutting the center out of a burnt OEM disk and welding it to a 1" socket. Wihtout this i would have been on the "penny trick" to get the 105 lb/ft end nut toque and i don't trust wedging anything between gears i want to last any amount of time
A press and bearing splitter/gear puller are two "must haves" to do it right (can get by wihtout spltter tim says) but i wouldn't gop wihtout at LEAST the OTC1123 model as i tried with the harbor freight units and had more trouble than success., and you don't need a 12-20ton press if you have welding equipment and some metal, I lengthened my 6 ton mini A-frame press from HF to be just long enough to dothre trans work and now i'd rather have it for thsi job than a huuge floor model because i can put it on my welding table, sit down and calmly do my work without straining my back or leg
I would say the HARDEST part of the entire job was lifting the t-CASE with driveshaft in it up into place during the re-assembly, that thing is like bench pressing with an arm tied t your head
Overall, to sum it all up, I'd say if you're mechanically inclined enough to not have to ask how to take it apart, or know how to buildan engine, change CV's or aout anything that a decent mecanic can do, then building a trans is within your realm as well. I'd say the most important part is paying maticulous attention to detail, and make sure there's no chipped teeth, that the synchro keys aren't worn but also that they don't pop off the springs when you're placing the slider over them (holding both synchros into the hub makes this easier) and aside from that justbe able to recognize if your solder checks just seem "out of the ordinary" when using new bearings especially
Tim Zimmer says he sees values in the .040 +/-.005 or so on both input and intermediate and closer to .050" on the center diff (there's a thread called "Gearbox shimming expert needed" where Tim lays out a good bit of info.
search for it, it's a good read!
