My old highschool car

[chrisman287]

What would be causing the knock? These are pics before and during and after.

Looks like you have the same issue as me... alternator isn't keeping up at WOT.

 

[awdtsi_90]

Sounds like an alternator is in my future then. I did get the wire clipped back onto the power steering pump.

Car dose have heater now!!!

Found out the radiator fans are not coming on tho at all tho. I have mishimoto slim fans and checked on dsmlink to turn them on but couldn't find that setting at all.

Looked online and I guess 1g dosnt have that option. Maybe the relay or the switch at the bottom of the radiator is the culprit because when I sold the car they worked.

 

[We're on Boost]

I looked at the knock and it does get way too bad.
So I think for a first shot at it, just reduce the timing to 16 degrees in all these cells that I greyed out in the MaxOct timing table. That's everything at load factors of 1.2 or more and rpm of 3500 and more, just set the timing down to 16 degrees in all those cells. Make the same change in the MinOct timing table.
See how that goes.

 

[awdtsi_90]

thank you so mucu gary!!. I will get this done and see how that works and let you know. I had th4 car running and it was at 13v. With a gauge on the battery. dsm link shows almost a volt lower? Is link not very accurate with th4 voltage. I have no light that dim and it will go down then back up but never shows 13v on link ut thr cause hookednup to it shows 13. Maybe wires are dirty or bad. Thr power & ground wires maybe. It sucks it's getting cold here tho haha. I want warm weather to work on this car

 

[awdtsi_90]

That worked gary Thank you so much! Highest the knock went to was 3.5 degress and i saw a 15 of boost & have seen 17 in previous drives.. Thank you so much .

What all did that do? Not have the timing be so aggressive? If i had everything in the green would that be safer then having the rest of it in yellow & red?

Here is the log of drive after that adjustment

 

[We're on Boost]

That worked gary Thank you so much! Highest the knock went to was 3.5 degress and i saw a 15 of boost & have seen 17 in previous drives.. Thank you so much .

What all did that do? Not have the timing be so aggressive? If i had everything in the green would that be safer then having the rest of it in yellow & red?

Here is the log of drive after that adjustment

Yeah that looks a lot better than before.
Now there's still too much knock after you go above a load factor of 1.6.
So try this - reduce the timing to 14 degrees in all these cells that I grayed out.
That's everything at load factors of 1.6 or more and rpm of 3500 and more, just set the timing down to 14 degrees in all those cells.
Make the same change in the MinOct timing map.

The timing that you had before was too high for 15 psi of boost on the stock intercooler.
You can't just put everything in the green though. It doesn't work that way.

You are using the stock sidemount intercooler aren't you?
When my car was like this, at 15 psi boost, I was on the stock intercooler still.
My timing at WOT was around 15 - 16 degrees in the high torque part of the rev range (around 4000 to 5500 rpm) and then when it got to 6000 rpm it would go up, to about 18 degrees at 6500 and 7000 rpm. Approximately. I can check it closer later. But that's about how it should work, and that's how Jeff Oberholtzer had it set up in the DSM Chips modified ecu that I bought from him in 2009 which was about a year after that log that I showed a few posts up.

In fact, I have a shot of the abbreviated spec list laying on the ecu which I took a shot of when it was nice and fresh , and it would be worth looking at. Those are specs that Jeff cooked up that he thought would be good for how my car was at the time, and would still be good for taking more mods, bigger turbo, and probably up to 400 hp or so.

 

[We're on Boost]

Your battery voltage logs, looks like in most cruise conditions the log says 12.0 to 12.2 volts. Under those same conditions my logs would way 13.5 volts. So that is quite a difference. I've never done anything to clean up my fuse boxes. My battery terminals on top of the battery are always good, and my ground wire from battery to firewall is new and good, and my alternator is still good I think. It doesn't have a lot of miles on it, and it's always had that heat shield to the left of it.

When you do a pull, your voltage goes down to 11.6 volts (like at 410.930 in the last log) and my car's voltage goes down during a pull to. It's probably the fuel pump(s). On my car the 2nd fuel pump kicks in whenever boost is more than a few psi. I can kind of see it in my battery voltage. From no boost to full boost, my voltage will go down from 13.5 to 12.5 by the end of the pull. 1 volt.

On your car it only goes down by half a volt during a pull. Well, 1 fuel pump.
As boost goes up, the fuel pump works harder and draws more amps because fuel pressure has to go up with manifold pressure. My car with 2 fuel pumps and about 10 more psi of boost and a lot more fuel flow, the effect on voltage is twice as much.
My alternator is one of the 75 amp ones that was made for the automatic cars. It's a NAPA reman. So it's a good alternator but it's not a big amp monster.

 

[awdtsi_90]

Those adjustments will be made today before i go home. Looked at the log I sent you and the min table didn't save the changes. Do I need to save each table after making adjustments before going to the other one? I made the changes to both tables but it didn't save on the min table for some reason

Yes, I am still on the stock side mount intercooler. In my garage I do have a fmic I would love to put on with the 255 fuel pump & 1,000 cc injectors in garage which in time will happen. Today I should have my lower radiator hose, the one currently on it has a small pin size hole.

There is no adjustments to be made for the radiator fans on link for a 1g is there? Only on the 2g you can adjust when the fans come on correct?

here are the changes I made yesterday. today I will make the other changes today and will be looking and reading on this stuff over the weekend.


Everyone have a safe Thanksgiving

 

[We're on Boost]

There is no adjustments to be made for the radiator fans on link for a 1g is there? Only on the 2g you can adjust when the fans come on correct?

Right, we don't get that feature on the 1g.

Do I need to save each table after making adjustments before going to the other one? I made the changes to both tables but it didn't save on the min table for some reason

Right, "Copy to ECU" just saves the page you are on. "Copy all to ECU" saves everything everywhere, all pages.
I always just save one page at a time.

Yes, I am still on the stock side mount intercooler. In my garage I do have a fmic I would love to put on with the 255 fuel pump & 1,000 cc injectors in garage which in time will happen.

What downpipe is on the car?
And what about the cat? What do you have where the cat was - or is there still a cat there?

 

[awdtsi_90]

I made those changes and saved each page at a time, but did forget to save the log of my drive home.

There is a aftermarket downpipe on the car and I believe there are 2 resonators in the exhaust. It's what it looks like idk. I couldn't tell you the brand or name of the down pipe tho. It was on the car when i first got it back in highschool. around 2006 is when I got it.

Also I put the gray selected zones down to 14 like you said.

 

[chrisman287]

I still think your lack of battery voltage is playing a role in this knock situation.

 

[We're on Boost]

I believe there are 2 resonators in the exhaust.

Oh do you think there is a resonator where the cat was originally? In other words, no cat probably?

 

[awdtsi_90]

Only reason I say 2 resonators is because they are the same and don't look any different. If cats and resonators look the same then it might be 1 cat & 1 resonator

I still think your lack of battery voltage is playing a role in this knock situation.

I will definitely be putting a new alternator on there. Just right now funds are extremely tight and waiting untill I am able to get one. Been thinking about taking the one off my eclipse tho tbh. It needs a clutch and can't drive it so minus well take it offbecause it solves thr voltage issue. only problem is it's cold but it will get done tho .

I am shooting for this weekend to get them switched over.

 

[chrisman287]

I will definitely be putting a new alternator on there.

I feel that. I have a used Galant 90a on the way it was $50 shipped

 

[awdtsi_90]

I checked the voltage before i took the alternator off the eclipse and it tested good. That's what the pic of voltage gauge is showing from the alternator on the eclipse before I took it off.

The 2 alternators are to compare. The one off talon looks so old . Thr other pic shows the newer alternator installed on the talon.

Now it reads a lower voltage then the one I replaced and now the battery light is on the gauge cluster. I have no dash lights, no radio, no headlights, no interior lights.

Wtf happend. what fuses do I need to check.

 

[awdtsi_90]

Got it resolved!!! I just disconnected everything and re connected it and bam. Now it all works and reading higher voltage then the original alternator did.

I was in the middle of making a log and my computer died, so I will be making a log tomorrow. So much relief that after the connections everything came back and is working great!!!!!

 

[We're on Boost]

Got it resolved!!! I just disconnected everything and re connected it and bam. Now it all works and reading higher voltage then the original alternator did.

I was in the middle of making a log and my computer died, so I will be making a log tomorrow. So much relief that after the connections everything came back and is working great!!!!!

Good deal! Will be interesting to see logged battery voltage now. I think you can still figure that the logged battery voltage will be about half a volt lower than what is actually on the battery terminals while you are driving.

 

[awdtsi_90]

On the log as I was driving it was 13 volts. If I had headlights and fans on it was like 12.6-12.7 volts. turned them off snd it went right back to 13. I don't think I ever saw anything above 13.0 on link.

I will get a log tomorow and get it posted!!

I am still stumped on what happend tho with the battery light on and no dash lights or headlights. Apparently a loose connection was the culprit. Crazy tho

 

[We're on Boost]

Here's a chart from the 1991 electrical FSM that shows what are supposedly the "Standard Value" voltages from the alternator at various temperatures. Note that voltage goes down at higher temps, and the ok voltage ranges they give are pretty wide.

On page 8-146 and 147 they specify the conditions for doing this voltage check - amperage and engine rpm.
They say keep all lights and accessories off. Alternator output current less than 10 amps. Engine speed about 2,500 rpm.
Then the actual battery + terminal voltage should be within the ranges on the chart.

 

[awdtsi_90]

On the first log the highest the knock retard was 4.2 and the voltage went from 12.5-13. I did have headlights and fan on with cruise control I was kinda testing everything.

On the 2nd log the highest the knock retard was 6.3 and the voltage went from 12.7 to 13.5. On this 2nd log the voltage mainly stayed above 13 volts.

On the voltage gauge i still was not reading as high as it was on the eclipse but it is around 13.7 i would say but almost 14. With the same alternator & battery in the eclipse it read about 14.7 so i am assuming the wires are dirty and need to be cleaned up or replaced.

Here are the pics of the same alternator & same battery just on different cars. First one is talon & 2nd is eclipse

 

[We're on Boost]

In your 2nd log I think your voltages are not much different than mine. I made a video today after a drive, a short one to show voltages on my car.

But the knock in both logs is disappointing.
You are run out of injector now (it's getting to 95%) so you can't make it any richer, and richer might not help anyway.
In any case we don't know what your AFRs are.
Your airflow is pretty high, the MAF Hz over 1900, that's about it for the stock 1g MAF unless you hack the MAF or use MAF Clamp in ECMLink - but you'd need full V3 to use MAF Clamp, V3 Lite doesn't have it.

Your coolant temps are a little high in the places where the knock is happening. I guess 190 deg F was stock for the 1g thermostat but 180 degrees is better. Pretty much everybody changed to 180 thermostats as far as I know, and that's what I've always used. I'd get that 190 out of there and put in a 180. It might help. Am I remembering this wrong? Didn't you put in a 190? At this time of year, your coolant temps can easily be lower than 206-210.

I think for a quick easy thing just to keep down the knock for now, just try even lower timing in that whole part of the timing charts where you have 14 degrees now. Change that to, I don't know, 10 degrees probably. For load factor of 1.6 and above.

If you watch my voltage video you can kind of compare it to your measurements. I think it's really not much different.
Those YouTube bastards published it as a Short without even asking me first if I wanted that, which I didn't. But maybe that's better for watching on a cell phone. You can still get the Description field from the 3 dots in a short, and I did put a lot of info in there. I actually like YouTube BTW but google changes things about every 5 minutes and it gets a little nutty! This time they wouldn't let me choose from different thumbnail pictures. Have never had that happen before.
View as a regular video
View as a Short

 

[CrackedDSM]

Those YouTube bastards published it as a Short without even asking me first if I wanted that, which I didn't.

If you film in portrait mode(hold phone vertical) and its under a certain amount of time, it's automatically uploaded as a short.

If you film in Landscape mode(holding the phone sideways) it's uploaded as a regular video no matter how short it is.

 

[We're on Boost]

If you film in portrait mode(hold phone vertical) and its under a certain amount of time, it's automatically uploaded as a short.

If you film in Landscape mode(holding the phone sideways) it's uploaded as a regular video no matter how short it is.

Yeah, I filmed in square aspect, 1:1, but I was holding the phone upright, never thought about holding it sideways!
Thanks, I will try it someday on an upload.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Yeah, I filmed in square aspect, 1:1, but I was holding the phone upright, never thought about holding it sideways!
Thanks, I will try it someday on an upload.

Yep! Found it out by accident because it was always annoying trying to embed videos here on Tuners never worked with shorts. (Found a neat workaround though, if anyone's interested I'll post it. Super easy.)

 

[We're on Boost]

Nick, I think try this:
Put 10 degrees in the TmngMaxOct map in all the cells where you have 14 now.
Then in the TmngMinOct map put something even lower, like 7 degrees, in all those same cells.
Then look in your list of Captured Values, see if "Octane" is in there. If it's there, turn it on so we can Display it in the logs.