My custom holset install - (The H1-3558x), **underway currently**

[DSMTyson]

Very innovative! Lots of useful info. I'm thinking about measuring the oil pressure at my cylinder head to see if it has adequate supply of oil for a holset, for if I ever make up my mind to go with one down the road. BSE and 2G HLA regulator instead of the 1G HLA regulator.

Anyone know the pressure changes that the 2G HLA regulator causes over the 1G HLA regulator?

Subscribed!

 

[turboglenn]

1.)The oil pressure will be different at the turbo vs ofh. EDIT to explain your findingsWhen you say you noticed a 20psi drop when moving the gauge from the OFH to at the turbo i believe you probably moved your gauge to a point that put it behind a smaller restriction in the line than it was previousely having to deal with obstructing oil flow to it, thus giving you a drop in pressure when you put the gauge at the turbo it's self

2.)I will tell you running 80+psi is better than running 30psi.

3.)Was is smoking?

well, here's my answers to those

1.)Not true in most cases, only because i saw you post that before, i tested this by adding 3 EXTRA feet of -4 (spare line) i had in front of the gauge's tap in connector (making my feed 5.5 foot long at that point and my main feed is only a little over 2 feet 4 inches), Plus this extra line, well, it made no difference..this change you have seen i have explained in red above. But, pressure being a result of backed up volume, there's the same pressure an inch from the OFH as their is 3 feet from it. Which, as i stated, i checked and found no difference tonight when deciding to trust the results once i realized i had to mount the gauge at the OFH because the plastic gauge feed would melt being mounted at the turbo. (but this does mean to get accurate readings i must keep any restrictor before the gauge tie in spot). The backed up volume will be at the same pressure it's entire distance, as long as theirs no more restrictors before the turbo and after my gauge tap. And in my case, the smallest restriction is at the very first banjo bolt on the OFH.

think of it like this, if you take away the FMIC where you get pressure drop..you have the same psi of boost at the turbo as you do at the throttle body - again unless there's something in the middle to reduce flow of volume like the front mount to create the volume and pressure drop. And pressure drop exists because the FMIC can't move the same volume as a raw open piece of pipe

2.)I hit 100 past 6k RPM, this was free revving the engine and getting 80psi by 4k RPM, i don't want it to spens sustained time at 100psi during a 3rd or 4th gear pull = I don't think it's gonna like 80-100 psi too long in life

3.) no, but i wasn't spending a ton of time over the max pressure range and my drain seemed to be keeping up... but i can tell there was too much oil because this turbo spins easier by hand than any other turbo i have seen in journal bearing form and it wasn't doing much spinning while moving the car around the driveway like my normal turbo's have all done so i was flooding it for sure (normally i hear them fluttering and spooling around as i maneuver my car out of the garage and into it's spot, i was trying hard and barely getting anything which immediately caught me by surprise making me really think there's too much oil in the turbo right now

Very innovative! Lots of useful info. I'm thinking about measuring the oil pressure at my cylinder head to see if it has adequate supply of oil for a holset(hoping about 50psi at WOT by 7500), if I decide to go with one down the road. I've got a BSE and 2G HLA regulator instead of the 1G HLA regulator.

Subscribed!

Thanks, I'm not sure about the difference in the 1g and 2g HLA reg. but the one i have was a rare one that came on some of the JDM engines which i had ordered one many years ago only to find i had the "rare gem" which has a spring, piston and bypass hole just like the OFH to bypass any volumeof oil causing too much pressure in the head/lifters

Now maybe if i went back to the USDM style regulator in thehead i could get higher pressures there, but then i'd be facing dealing with lifter pump up, but i don't see a ton of people having issues with it, but then again there's a reason they started making aftermarket ones to begin with

 

[bastarddsm]

I had my gauge tee'd into the line, so there was no additional restrictions at all. Obviously, the pressure drop across the line is affected by the pressure at the ofh, the size of the line, the turbo, and any restrictions. My line is about 3/16" id,

Yeah if its over 100, that's too much. Was it cold or warmed up when you measured that?

 

[turboglenn]

warm at 100psi, i had 60psi at idle cold.. once i hit about 6k it holds right about 100psi till i shift, it comes off the valve at 4k RPM and starts to climb from the 72-75psi the relief is at (not sure it's exact rating but i can see a pause there)

I'm gonna try a restrictor tomorrow and if that's no good i'm going right to the head, i don't have days to mess with this. It should have been completed today honestly

 

[BoostedBeaver]

Sorry to hear about the run around on the oil pressure Glenn. I do hope that the restrictor works for you today.

If not, what gaskets are you in need of for the OFH swap. I have a few OFH gaskets sitting around the garage if that is all you need.

Robert

 

[ed1380]

Make your own ofh gasket. I'm even running my own front case gasket with copper spray and no leaks at 105psi on a cold start.

 

[turboglenn]

Robert, I just would need the one OFH gasket i guess, it's a 1990 6 bolt engine with regular OFH.

I didn't get anything done today, either my meds or the carbon minoxide from warming the car up for oil pressure testing got me sick all day. I was sweating and had the worst headache i couldn't even look at a TV until about an hour ago.

I'm hoping to get the restrictor in tomorrow and if that doesn't work i'l oill from the head and stay out of boost untill i get some work done this week and get ahead on money enough to mes with my own stuff some more.

I'll update as i make progress

 

[BoostedBeaver]

Well if you need that gasket, just let me know. I know I at least have two in the garage. I will shoot you the part # so we can make sure.

Robert

 

[turboglenn]

I dont know the part number of the gasket honestly, I just know what the housing looks like and could get a picture, but that's about the best i can do for knowing it's the right part

the restrictor didn't work , pressur eon startup was still in the 60+ range so i'm not gonna waste the time to get it hot and double check, i'm just gonna feed it from the head and if need be go back to a regular 1g or 2g HLA regulator

at least it's made everything for the last 12 years + stay alive, so i'll entrust the holset to it as well.

 

[bastarddsm]

Don't feed it from the head. These turbo's do not have a good track record of being fed from the head.

I'd be willing to bet a rebuild kit it would have been fine the way it was before the restrictor, and it would be fine the way it is now.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

I am sure it is the right one because my car is a 90. I will post a pic and if it was you need shot me your address in PM. If I get it out tommorrow you may get if this weekend.

I can not believe that the restrictor did not change it at all. You did go through the trouble of making the restrictor, so maybe a 10 min warmup would be worth it just to make sure.

Robert

 

[beansblacktsi]

Don't feed it from the head. These turbo's do not have a good track record of being fed from the head.

I'd be willing to bet a rebuild kit it would have been fine the way it was before the restrictor, and it would be fine the way it is now.

Ive been running from the head on my hx35 for about 5000miles of 35+psi and have never had any issues at all. I do have a 12an drain and this is all on a turbo with 200,000miles. I just took it off to upgrade to a 40 and the turbo looks the same as it did before. No balanced shafts and nothing ported.

 

[turboglenn]

i'm baffled on it honestly, the damn pressure is just still too high, and i don't want to start tampering wth the entire system as it's kept the engine alive and happy this long and i don't want to risk its'; reliability to please a turbo, I'd like to hear from others who've had these extreme pressures and what they did because i don't want to restrict it to where it's not getting enough oil to keep the bearings wet and floating just to get the pressure to them down enogh to meet the spec.

justin said there's been other's who've feed from the head with too high pressures else where, so i have this after nooon to figure it out and that's about it becayse i have customer work coming in and MUST have my car for daily transportation in order to get their stuff done

 

[biglady112]

I see you make so many posts like this, just buy another car. There is plenty of them out there for under $1,000.

 

[turboglenn]

I see you make so many posts like this, just buy another car. There is plenty of them out there for under $1,000.

???????????????

who making posts like what? this is the first holset i've put on, all i'm saying is i'd rather feed it from the head and rick the turbo than to start cutting up the oiling system and risk an engine that's been happy for years on the current setup. And if i wanted a car for under a grand i'd be on honda forums If you're talking about me needing a daily driver, i need to swallow my pride and just take my disability check from the government because i can't barely work and damn sure can't get hired with my injuries as i've tried ,many time and many places. so yea, a soon as that money starts coming in i'll have a daily, but i'm going for a v6 pick up.. I've really wanted a frontier for the last 5-6 years, and hoped i'd be able to get back to working but the doctors wont let me do anything strenuouse, so i'm gonna use my disability to go back to school and finish my degree (first accident pulled me out of college for a years recovery) then i'll have something, untill then i scrape by week to week, dollar by dollar. I will accept donations in the form of a reliable DD (i actually just sold my back up vehicle this summer to help a friend get custody of his kids and the damn guy runs it out of gas and lets it get towed and never got it out, it got auctioned before he ever put the title in his name)

Ive been running from the head on my hx35 for about 5000miles of 35+psi and have never had any issues at all. I do have a 12an drain and this is all on a turbo with 200,000miles. I just took it off to upgrade to a 40 and the turbo looks the same as it did before. No balanced shafts and nothing ported.

thanks, that gives me a little more confidence in thehead on the holset. I've fed all mine from there so far, just the holsets seem to be go or no go the way this forum talks and i'm not on any others really so members here are my only source of knowing what "the masses" are doing

So i've got the head feed ran and on this gauge i'm getting 10-12 at idle and intantly going to 30 -32psi and leveling off/holding there rather steady when i rev the engine, I have to finish putting the car back together from changing one IC pipe and needing one more bolt in the DP but after that i'll see how she spools and keep an eye on it for wear, right now the turbo is perfect condition so anything should show up fast if it's going to show up at all

 

[beansblacktsi]

thanks, that gives me a little more confidence in thehead on the holset. I've fed all mine from there so far, just the holsets seem to be go or no go the way this forum talks and i'm not on any others really so members here are my only source of knowing what "the masses" are doing

No problem and I honestly don't think I have actually seen anybody's holset fail because of feeding from the head. (with no balanced shafts at least) A lot of people will tell you they do but I haven't seen anybody with first hand experience. But there probably is someone.

 

[turboglenn]

No problem and I honestly don't think I have actually seen anybody's holset fail because of feeding from the head. (with no balanced shafts at least) A lot of people will tell you they do but I haven't seen anybody with first hand experience. But there probably is someone.

Did you read pressure at the head on yours? I ask because i am using the semi-rare head pressure regulator that keeps the pressure low, and is supposedly the only one besides the aftermarket stuff that does such a good job, but if i can get closer to what the turbo wants with a regular style head regulator i would probably go back to one since i never had much issue with lifter pump up causing me high RPM issues, I just used it because it was known to be a better part when i searched for info on it

Hope this baby spools up and powers out nicely, 3 more bolts await me before i can test it out (a t-bolt clamp and the intake clamps )

if it pushes what i'm hoping it does i may have to get a new clutch on order or keep the boost low until i can put a new clutch in

if spool isn't where i want it i may have to (gasp) put a mitsu style bolt on housing on it would prefer not to because of the amount of work i'd have to put in to go back to mitsu style setup (or th amount of cash i'd have to outlay to avoid that work ) My only other option would be to machine out a .48 a/r housing to fit it, woulde a tough choice to decide which route to go at that point, the .48 would be easier but i don't have a spare one to cut up and would have to buyone, so might as well buy what's proven at that point

 

[gsxtasy]

Glenn, I thought those regulators strictly regulated the pressure to the HLA's, and did not affect the turbo feed pressure port? I could be completely wrong on that, now I'm curious.

I may have to change the oiling for my BW also, unfortunately. I have it fed from the head right now, but I have it installed with a double banjo so i can see pressure at the head, and it gets really low at warm idle.


Edit: Here is a post straight from Kevin Kiggly himself on the dsmlink forums about his HLA regulator, so I guess I don't know if that oem one works the same or not.

I'm sure cost is the reason they 86'd the regulator in OEM trim. That regulator also only dumped to regulate pressure, which isn't in the best interest of keeping your oil pan full. I had big problems with oil starvation start to pop up as soon as the car stayed much above the factory revlimiter for a full pass. Results will vary all over the place though. The more blowby the engine has, the worse it will stack up oil in the head. The blowby has to come up and out of the head drainbacks, and that fights the oil trying to go down them.

My regulator only alters oil pressure to the lifters, which also feed the rocker squirters. Cam oil is still at full pressure, so your turbo feed doesn't change. It would be possible to also feed a ball-bearing turbo off the regulated 15psi if you wanted to, just put a fitting in the lifter gallery off the end of the head. There should be no situation in which the lifters need more than 15psi and all the lifter tech data I've been able to find indicates that lifters perform better at lower pressures than full engine oil pressure.

Kevin

 

[bastarddsm]

I just bought one of his HLA regulators. I have also ran the dsm and jdm regulators. The dsm and jdm ones regulate the pressure by relieving the excess. These should reduce engine oil pressure.

The kiggly one restricts the flow to keep the pressure down. Realistically, it should improve engine oil pressure.

 

[turboglenn]

UPDATE: FIRST DRIVE: ________________________________________


well, a few things.. spool isn't instant like some see, i'm reaching full boost in the late 4K RPM range (i would say by 4600 in second gear) third i didn't have room to test it. also, the main "lag" seems to be in the first 10psi, and isn't linear in anyway because once it' builds that initial bit the thing rockets to the wastegate and is spiking by 4-5psi which is gona require some tweaking of my boost control setup (going back to electric or using both top and bottom WG ports on the manual )

The "holset whistle" is LOUD and in full effect in my car.. you'd almost swear it was coming from the car's radio (but i wanted that from it )

but heres where it gets "interesting" this turbo recovers boost faster than anything i've ever seen for the amount of air it's moving. I mean it's litterally non-existant when it comes to lag between gears, it's hitting so hard it's spiking 30psi when i have it set to 25psi.. From this i know i've got to go back to an EBC or at least using both ports on the wastegate so that the opening is reliable and consistant. I would say it recovers as fast as any 16g car i've ever been in, much better than the 67mm BB turbo and even a good bit better than the 57 trim i've ran for years and recently rebuilt and tested in a ball bearing CHRA,, don't know how holset did it but they made wheels that do perform awesomely and i would atrribute any lag out of the ordinary for a 40/35 style hybrid to be due to my self machined turbine housing and i'm sure this thing couls see spool much faster with a housing built to utilize the turbine wheel exclusively, or even with just a smaller A/R (i'm running a .63 a/r housing)

After hot i'm seeing no less than 12psi at idle from the head.. 25psi once the revs are above 1500 RPM and i can't tell once under load because the gauge is under the hood because i didn't have enough line to run it all the way in the cabin but i do plan to fix this with some more line in the next day or so

Although i'm a little let down with initial spool up i am more than satisfied with it's response between gears, there's absolutely NOTHING to wait for, as fastas i can push the gas the thing is instantly on the gate.

I can't wait to test on dry pavement as first and second were completely loose and third was starting to break loose anytime i got into boost levels reaching the wastegate opening. This should be a really fun turbo to drive on the street. I may have to machine out my only .48 a/r housing (or buy one to machine) at this point because although not stoked about the spool i'm happy with it and a little better spool would be sweet.. I do imagine that the large HX40 compressor has played a factor in spool, and it may improve once i get on dry pavement where there's traction (plus if i put a silencer ring in it i know that will give me a couple hundred RPM back too) but for a wheel measuring 58mm ind. and 83mm exd. the spool isn't bad at all and is much better than the 67mm/88mm ball bearing PTE6776RS turbo was and with this being more in my total power output range i think i definitely made a good move with going to the holset from the ball bearing PTE unit.

And the sound, well normally that sound is something i have to listen for echoing off cement walls with the window half down. But with this turbo you can hear it with the windows up from the moment it starts to gain any wheel RPM...and i'm sure my nice 4" aluminum intake pipe is helping to transmit that sound out into the open as well as into the cabin

As for oiling, For now it's something ill just keep an eye on, maybe test a stock 1g or 2g HLA regulator and decide on from there. there's no haft play in this turbo to speak of and it's litterally got less than most brand new garretts so keeping an eye out for any to start will be easy.. worst case scenario i think i can get hydraulic pressure regulators locally and may try one of those and going back to the OFH, but for now i'm keeping it plumbed off the head.

I guess i'll leave it off there and add more info as i make progress or as it's requested. For anyone who'll actaully read the logs in mircosoft excell, letme know if you wantthem and i'll post them up for download, but if no one is gonna read them i'll save myself the time of hosting them up

thanks for all the help everyone, a lot of you really helped to get this project moving and i apreciate it!@!!!

 

[doesitonall4rs]

Pretty good build! Wondering, how much clearance do you have between the hotside/block running that manifold?

 

[turboglenn]

Pretty good build! Wondering, how much clearance do you have between the hotside/block running that manifold?

will have to measure to be exact but "a lot" with a 5 bolt t3 housing, a 4 bolt will hit the balance shaft hump in the block because of the way it's built.. but just look at how much larger the compressor is than the turbine housing and I wouldn't even have needed to dent the waterpipe if i aimed the housing downward. I would say around 2-3" on the conservative side of guessing, I'll try and measure it when it's light out tomorrow

 

[bastarddsm]

UPDATE: FIRST DRIVE: ________________________________________


well, a few things.. spool isn't instant like some see, i'm reaching full boost in the late 4K RPM range (i would say by 4600 in second gear) third i didn't have room to test it.

Keep in mind that thing has got a 70mm turbine wheel. Thats bigger than a GT35, and the same as a Stage 5. Its pretty huge.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

This is great to hear Glenn!! I hope that the head works out for you and if not I hope that you find a viable solution. I would take a look at those logs if you have some spare time to put them together. Again congrats and let us know how it goes and if any wear starts to occur.

Robert

 

[turboglenn]

Keep in mind that thing has got a 70mm turbine wheel. Thats bigger than a GT35, and the same as a Stage 5. Its pretty huge.

this one has the smaller turbine of the two styles hx 35 and 40 respectively), it's a 60mm exducer, i forget the larger size on the major diamteter though but that might be near 70mm, but either way according to the info we have this is supposed to be the same turbine as the hx35, but either way you're correct on it being least as large as a stage 5 wheel (haven't had a gt35 wheel to look at)

I can immediately see why people like running these above 30psi, it's gaining so much HP with each PSI i feed it and never feels like it "maxing out" or "going flat" at all!! you can't help but want to keep addingboost

i did a few more runs to check oil pressure and never got below 12psi at the head at idle andkept it consistant at alow side of 25psi hot

If i could find a way to bump it up a little without getting past it's "max" spec i would, but in the mean time i'd rather be safe than smoking and slowing the spool any at all.

tomorrow i've got a trans to ship out and a 4 wheeler to get into the shop at night but other than that i'll have time to play a little, and since i've got the cam gears set to the most top end i can get with the slowest spooling setup on them also i might put them back at "zero" and see what that does for lag. should gain a few hundy back (200-300 max maybe) but we shall see

I will post the logs up since at least robert wants to see em, and i'll put some beatings on it and post bearing health status as i go with it.