my 16g need answers

[dsmboyeclipse97]

ok so i have a 97 gst and i bought a 16g turbo and the 2g eclipse manifold and i have a greddy emanange ultimate engine management first if i buy delphi 760 injectors then how much boost can i put through my stock internals safely? and i know you can only put 16 psi on the stock injectors but could they handle more or is it not worth it to do that and how much of a difference do you think i will feel? and what kind of fuel pump should i use if i want 20-22 psi of boost?

 

[GSX93DSM]

Fuel mods?

 

[cfelix]

Do you have a egt gauge If you dont get one that's going to help you when starting to tune your car. Im pretty new but I have the same car as for my turbo I have a 14b. Take your time and doit right If I was u I would get 650 and a fuel pump.

 

[SFRacingGST]

Thats a pretty noob question to ask for someone using emange.... The answer to run as much boost the injectors will flow without running in a lean condition and knocking. As for internals, there are people who run 35-30 psi on stock internals all day. Its a good idea to upgrade to some ARP headstuds if you havn't already if you plan on running more than stock boost

 

[dsmboyeclipse97]

i need a fuel pump to but havent looked into any what would be best if i wanted around 20 psi of boost?

 

[dsmboyeclipse97]

and i found some 760 injectors but will those be too much will my emanage be able to handle them?

 

[rEclipserGST]

ok so i have a 97 gst and i bought a 16g turbo and the 2g eclipse manifold and i have a greddy emanange ultimate engine management first if i buy rc 550 injectors then how much boost can i put through my stock internals safely? and i know you can only put 16 psi on the stock injectors but could they handle more or is it not worth it to do that and how much of a difference do you think i will feel?

Why did you buy a 2g manifold if you already have a stock one on your car? Get bigger injectors before trying to push 16 psi. Also, search harder and use correct grammar & punctuation. You also might want to get an oil feed line to feed from the head for an MHI turbo. Search more.

 

[motozachl]

i need a fuel pump to but havent looked into any what would be best if i wanted around 20 psi of boost?

the 190 would be plenty, then you wouldn't need the afpr

 

[GSX93DSM]

A 190 Fuel pump will be fine for 20psi. You planning on upgrading later;get a 255 w/fpr. Also get a wideband. As for the emange I'm not really fimiliar with it. I would recomend eprom with keydiver or eprom w/DSMink. Cash is tight eprom w/keydiver.

 

[Dert]

Why did you buy a 2g manifold if you already have a stock one on your car?




I think he means 16G which probably came with exhaust manifold (probably a 16g with header deal)

 

[Dsmj89]

For the price he pays for a 190 he could get a 255. I'd say get yourself a walbro 255 hp fuel pump, afpr, and you will be set as far as fuel delivery goes.

 

[Spoolin18]

I would get something lower, like in the 600's.

I would get a wally 190lph, I would still get a afpr. I would keep the Greddy, and do more research on it..but I like to be different.

 

[whe3ls]

A 190 Fuel pump will be fine for 20psi. You planning on upgrading later;get a 255 w/fpr. Also get a wideband. As for the emange I'm not really fimiliar with it. I would recomend eprom with keydiver or eprom w/DSMink. Cash is tight eprom w/keydiver.

e manage is pretty good for the price. my buddy is going to be using in his 323 gtx to replace the hks f con.

 

[BulletShiftTSi]

The correct list of mods for a 16g built DSM correctly is very easy and always the same 98% of the time and as follows. I had this set up on my 16g and would recommend it to anyone every time.

everything I list and suggest is all based on the the 16g turbo and amount of boost you desire to run with safety and best results in mind. below i stated that some were optional but recommend because I didn't want you to think that you NEEDED it for your setup. and so people don't flame me for telling you so.

1.255lph walbro fuel pump w/rewire
You get the 255 fuel pump over the 190 because if you ever want more boost or a bigger turbo you will already have the correct fuel pump and they cost the same. and you get the rewire kit because dsms are known for having bad wiring in the fuel pumps stock and for example if you turn your headlights on it will drain power from the pump causing you to get less fuel causing you to lean out and blow up potentially. and the rewire cost like 20 bucks.

2.680cc injectors
You get the 680cc's because you will never max them out on a 16g turbo set up and will work with any tuning system. and they cost the same as any other size injectors. if you go to big on injectors and pump a small amount of gas through them becuase u need so little gas running a little turbo they can cause the car to not run perfect.


3.aftermarket fuel pressure regulator and lines and AN fittings
This is to regulate the amount of gas coming from the 255 pump to your 680 injectors so you don't flood or choke the whole system and you get the upgraded lines and fittings to insure proper fuel delievery and a slight look upgrade.

4.ARP head studs
If your going to run anymore then 14psi of boost on the motor you need to upgrade your head studs (the bolts that hold the head to the block) because if you don't when you boost over 14psi you will stretch the bolts and cause the head to lift of the block which I don't think I need to tell you isn't good at all. these headstuds will hold way more power then you can ever put on w/16g.

5.Multi layer head gasket like the 4 layer from Mitsubishi with copper spray.
Your going to replace the head gasket anyway after the head is off and If your boosting over 14psi you need a MLS head gasket. If you don't use a mls you can blow a hole in a stock headgasket. and you copper spray both sides of the new headgasket to ensure a airtight solid seal.
People will tell you that you can just copper spray a stock head gasket but the mls headgasket is insurance that it def wont pop on your 16g set up. don't bother with aftermarket's like cosmetic or hks when the Mitsubishi 4 layer is better in most opinions.

You can't run more then 14psi safely without adding the arp head studs and mls head gasket or you will stretch the stock head studs or pop the head gasket causing the car to...
A.not run
B.melt holes in pistons from overheating coolant (been there done that not fun)
C.burn off all your oil and coolant and lock the motor or overheat it.
D.run like crap with check engine light on with a slow car making a lot of smoke
E.COMBO OR ALL OF THE ABOVE


6.New OEM timing belt.
You have the head off and need to retime the motor anyways so might as well replace the belt at this point so you don't have to change it for another 60,000 miles.

7.upgraded BOV
in your profile you say you have one so you should be good on that. tho i always recommend Tial.

8.front mount intercooler
again stated in your profile already done.


9.AEM wideband
In order to tune you need to know your air fuel ratio. you stated in your profile that you have a a/f gauge but if it's a narrow band its no good.

*Optional but recommend*
10.Evo 3 o2 housing ported
With the stock o2 housing you will get some boost lag you have a full exhaust might as well replace the last part that will cause restrictions and spool up faster.

*Optional but recommend*
11. hard piping your complete intercooler system including the J-pipe that comes off the turbo

12.better clutch (recommend a ACT 2100)
You didn't state in your profile or thread if you have a auto or 5speed but if you have a manual then...
If your going to be running a 16g setup on 20-22psi your going to have enough torque and hp to when you get on the gas your stock clutch is going to slip which is going to cause you so be a lot slower and smoke from the trans and wear it out until you need a new clutch. I suggest a ACT 2100 pressure plate with a street full disc. And while your in there replace the throwout bearing with OEM.
You will never get enough power to slip the 2100 on a 16g and is COMPLETELY streetable.

*optional but highly recommend*
13.hard pipe intake with cone filter
just allows better airflow into the turbo

*Optional but recommend*
14.get the turbo ported and clipped
Both these things will cause the turbo to spool up faster and the clipping will allow you to hold more psi in the higher rpm range because usually a 16g starts to run out of steam around 5500-6500 give or take depending on tune, psi, clipping, porting, type of 16g, type of gas and other mods.

*optional but recommend*
15.better tires (recommend Falken 912's)
You have FWD so you will have even more traction problems then the AWD guys. you will spin those tires on a 16g so better gripping tires ensures going faster.(You'll probably still spin them in first)

*optional but recommend*
16.bigger cams
If your going to stay on a 16g forever get 272/264 cam combo if you ever think your going with a bigger turbo at any point. just get the 272/272 combo. its been known that the 272/264 is slightly better for the 16g setup but nothing big.

*optional*
17.forced performance exhaust manifold
its only $200 and its bigger flows more and spools the turbo a tiny bit faster completing your entire exhaust system.


18.get it tuned by a shop that knows what they are doing.
At this point you will only be limited by traction, type of gas, and tune. If its a crappy tune you can still blow it up or not be able to run much boost. but tuned by the right people they can max out your tune on 93 octane I see 16g's all day in Chicago tuned by Devin at Strictly modified running 20-23 psi.

The stock internals ability to hold power is not rated in PSI, its in horsepower just about every time,
most people will tell you not to run over 450hp on stock internals and since you have a 16g you will never hit more then 400hp with GOD tuning your car.

I know this was more then you were asking for but I figured I have no life and love helping people out. I also figured I would save a ton of future questions.

If you have anymore questions feel free to PM me I'm on just about everyday.

goodluck

 

[habitatguy187]

4.ARP head studs
If your going to run anymore then 14psi of boost on the motor you need to upgrade your head studs (the bolts that hold the head to the block) because if you don't when you boost over 14psi you will stretch the bolts and cause the head to lift of the block which I don't think I need to tell you isn't good at all.

You can't run more then 14psi safely without adding the arp head studs and mls head gasket or you will stretch the stock head studs or pop the head gasket causing the car to...
A.not run
B.melt holes in pistons from overheating coolant (been there done that not fun)
C.burn off all your oil and coolant and lock the motor or overheat it.
D.run like crap with check engine light on with a slow car making a lot of smoke
E.COMBO OR ALL OF THE ABOVE

WTF Whaaaaaat? There's people running over 25psi with stock headstuds and original head gasket.

 

[juanpac0]

The correct list of mods for a 16g built DSM correctly is very easy and always the same 98% of the time and as follows. I had this set up on my 16g and would recommend it to anyone every time. Just because it's your setup doesn't mean it's correct.

everything I list and suggest is all based on the the 16g turbo and amount of boost you desire to run with safety and best results in mind. below i stated that some were optional but recommend because I didn't want you to think that you NEEDED it for your setup. and so people don't flame me for telling you so.

1.255lph walbro fuel pump w/rewire
You get the 255 fuel pump over the 190 because if you ever want more boost or a bigger turbo you will already have the correct fuel pump and they cost the same. and you get the rewire kit because dsms are known for having bad wiring in the fuel pumps stock and for example if you turn your headlights on it will drain power from the pump causing you to get less fuel causing you to lean out and blow up potentially. and the rewire cost like 20 bucks.

For a 16g setup boosting 20, even 24psi a 190lph pump is fine. Rewiring is always a good idea.

2.680cc injectors
You get the 680cc's because you will never max them out on a 16g turbo set up and will work with any tuning system. and they cost the same as any other size injectors. if you go to big on injectors and pump a small amount of gas through them becuase u need so little gas running a little turbo they can cause the car to not run perfect.

What? That's not the reason why his car wouldn't run without the right tuning with large injectors. If I got 750cc injectors I'd be maxing them out with say, and HX-40 setup but they still wouldnt be compensated for properly without proper tuning.


3.aftermarket fuel pressure regulator and lines and AN fittings
This is to regulate the amount of gas coming from the 255 pump to your 680 injectors so you don't flood or choke the whole system and you get the upgraded lines and fittings to insure proper fuel delievery and a slight look upgrade.

It's unneccesary if you're running a 190LPH pump, which is perfectly sufficient for his setup.

4.ARP head studs
If your going to run anymore then 14psi of boost on the motor you need to upgrade your head studs (the bolts that hold the head to the block) because if you don't when you boost over 14psi you will stretch the bolts and cause the head to lift of the block which I don't think I need to tell you isn't good at all. these headstuds will hold way more power then you can ever put on w/16g.

People run 20lbs of boost on a 16g just fine without lifting the head, it's not about how much boost you're running. It's about how much boost you're running on a specific turbo. 25lbs on an HX-40 is a lot more air than 25lbs on a 14b.

5.Multi layer head gasket like the 4 layer from Mitsubishi with copper spray.
Your going to replace the head gasket anyway after the head is off and If your boosting over 14psi you need a MLS head gasket. If you don't use a mls you can blow a hole in a stock headgasket. and you copper spray both sides of the new headgasket to ensure a airtight solid seal.
People will tell you that you can just copper spray a stock head gasket but the mls headgasket is insurance that it def wont pop on your 16g set up. don't bother with aftermarket's like cosmetic or hks when the Mitsubishi 4 layer is better in most opinions.

Completely unnecessary for his goals.

You can't run more then 14psi safely without adding the arp head studs and mls head gasket or you will stretch the stock head studs or pop the head gasket causing the car to...
A.not run
B.melt holes in pistons from overheating coolant (been there done that not fun)
C.burn off all your oil and coolant and lock the motor or overheat it.
D.run like crap with check engine light on with a slow car making a lot of smoke
E.COMBO OR ALL OF THE ABOVE

F. None of the above.


6.New OEM timing belt.
You have the head off and need to retime the motor anyways so might as well replace the belt at this point so you don't have to change it for another 60,000 miles.

That's part of maintenance, it's not a performance upgrade.

7.upgraded BOV
in your profile you say you have one so you should be good on that. tho i always recommend Tial.

Completely unneccessary yet again, the stock 1g BOV when crushed/dodge garage modded can hold 20+psi.

8.front mount intercooler
again stated in your profile already done.

Also unneccesary, a supra/dejon sidemount would be fine.


9.AEM wideband
In order to tune you need to know your air fuel ratio. you stated in your profile that you have a a/f gauge but if it's a narrow band its no good.

*Optional but recommend*
10.Evo 3 o2 housing ported
With the stock o2 housing you will get some boost lag you have a full exhaust might as well replace the last part that will cause restrictions and spool up faster.

*Optional but recommend*
11. hard piping your complete intercooler system including the J-pipe that comes off the turbo

That's not optional at this point, it's required if he wants to make any power while running those boost levels.

12.better clutch (recommend a ACT 2100)
You didn't state in your profile or thread if you have a auto or 5speed but if you have a manual then...
If your going to be running a 16g setup on 20-22psi your going to have enough torque and hp to when you get on the gas your stock clutch is going to slip which is going to cause you so be a lot slower and smoke from the trans and wear it out until you need a new clutch. I suggest a ACT 2100 pressure plate with a street full disc. And while your in there replace the throwout bearing with OEM.
You will never get enough power to slip the 2100 on a 16g and is COMPLETELY streetable.

I think some 2100 owners would disagree with that last statement and I personally believe that a stock healthy clutch can hold that much power if you're not launching the car anywhere, but his mileage may vary.

*optional but highly recommend*
13.hard pipe intake with cone filter
just allows better airflow into the turbo

*Optional but recommend*
14.get the turbo ported and clipped
Both these things will cause the turbo to spool up faster and the clipping will allow you to hold more psi in the higher rpm range because usually a 16g starts to run out of steam around 5500-6500 give or take depending on tune, psi, clipping, porting, type of 16g, type of gas and other mods.

Clipping SLOWS spool; search.

*optional but recommend*
15.better tires (recommend Falken 912's)
You have FWD so you will have even more traction problems then the AWD guys. you will spin those tires on a 16g so better gripping tires ensures going faster.(You'll probably still spin them in first)

*optional but recommend*
16.bigger cams
If your going to stay on a 16g forever get 272/264 cam combo if you ever think your going with a bigger turbo at any point. just get the 272/272 combo. its been known that the 272/264 is slightly better for the 16g setup but nothing big.

*optional*
17.forced performance exhaust manifold
its only $200 and its bigger flows more and spools the turbo a tiny bit faster completing your entire exhaust system.

2g exhaust mani (especially ported) will be fine for his goals, but I've heard nothing but good things about the FP manifolds.

18.get it tuned by a shop that knows what they are doing.
At this point you will only be limited by traction, type of gas, and tune. If its a crappy tune you can still blow it up or not be able to run much boost. but tuned by the right people they can max out your tune on 93 octane I see 16g's all day in Chicago tuned by Devin at Strictly modified running 20-23 psi.

Or do it yourself and learn something.

The stock internals ability to hold power is not rated in PSI, its in horsepower just about every time,
most people will tell you not to run over 450hp on stock internals and since you have a 16g you will never hit more then 400hp with GOD tuning your car.

A number of people have made 400+ on a 16g.

I know this was more then you were asking for but I figured I have no life and love helping people out. I also figured I would save a ton of future questions.

If you have anymore questions feel free to PM me I'm on just about everyday.

goodluck

Some things about this post bothered me, just wanted to clear some things up.

 

[joshs1074]

thats awesome bulletshifttsi and juanpac0 you answered some of my questions as i am building with a 16g ported and clipped. i have all of that except the cams head gaskets and head studs.what difference would one expect to see with the cams? thanks

 

[JayRolla]

OK dont listen to Bulletshiftsi. I am running 32-34psi on stock head studs. You have a 6 bolt which has a lot better headstuds and dont stretch. They are the same ones on my car since 1991 and has had mulitple heads. Head studs where still within spec.

I would just get the 255lph. Since the 1g's have stronger FPR's the stocker should be fine. I have never ran an AFPR on any 1g and never had any overrun issues. 2g's do overrun.

As for your Emanage, I would keep it. Have a shop tune it or learn it yourself. It has very good injector, fuel map and timing control. Instead of sliders you actually have an excel type grid and you tune off throttle response and rpm, almost like you would in an standalone when tuning off load.

My brother was able to run 24-26psi on his 16g pulling all kinds of timing on pump gas. Very good tuning program. Blows SAFC out of the water.

 

[BulletShiftTSi]

The reason I stated the things I did was for a high end 16g setup and stated above that not all my suggestions were necessary. All mods were thinking safety reliability and long lasting in mind. I know what doesn't work for me works for everyone I was just stating that it did work for me. I know other things will work I was just stating the best of everyworld not how to barely scrap by for parts. and I never said clipping makes faster spool i said porting does. and clipping increases top rpm drop off.

yes you can run more then 450hp on stock block but not safely
you can run a 190lph pump but not if you ever go bigger
yes some head studs have held more but I've seen them go at 15psi
yes stock headgasket works but thats risking it

everything you guys mention is how to get your car as fast as possible for as little money and work possible. i mentioned the route that would make him the fastest, happiest, safest, strongest, and long lasting.

everybad thing i mentioned I have personally seen in that situation it may not always be the norm but would hate to see it happen.

 

[empie1]

The reason I stated the things I did was for a high end 16g setup and stated above that not all my suggestions were necessary. All mods were thinking safety reliability and long lasting in mind. I know what doesn't work for me works for everyone I was just stating that it did work for me. I know other things will work I was just stating the best of everyworld not how to barely scrap by for parts. and I never said clipping makes faster spool i said porting does. and clipping increases top rpm drop off.

yes you can run more then 450hp on stock block but not safely
you can run a 190lph pump but not if you ever go bigger
yes some head studs have held more but I've seen them go at 15psi
yes stock headgasket works but thats risking it

everything you guys mention is how to get your car as fast as possible for as little money and work possible. i mentioned the route that would make him the fastest, happiest, safest, strongest, and long lasting.

everybad thing i mentioned I have personally seen in that situation it may not always be the norm but would hate to see it happen.

Oh boy, time for another "do this not that" argument

 

[my dreamt dsm]

Im still doing16g research. But he does have a point. Better safe then sorry. But who is this newb who doesn't have a 16g to say!!! ... good luck on your build!

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

The reason I stated the things I did was for a high end 16g setup and stated above that not all my suggestions were necessary. All mods were thinking safety reliability and long lasting in mind. I know what doesn't work for me works for everyone I was just stating that it did work for me. I know other things will work I was just stating the best of everyworld not how to barely scrap by for parts. and I never said clipping makes faster spool i said porting does. and clipping increases top rpm drop off.

yes you can run more then 450hp on stock block but not safely
you can run a 190lph pump but not if you ever go bigger
yes some head studs have held more but I've seen them go at 15psi
yes stock headgasket works but thats risking it

everything you guys mention is how to get your car as fast as possible for as little money and work possible. i mentioned the route that would make him the fastest, happiest, safest, strongest, and long lasting.

everybad thing i mentioned I have personally seen in that situation it may not always be the norm but would hate to see it happen.[/QUOTE

450hp on stock internals is completely safe as long as you dont have ridiculous amounts of knock. 190lph is ok and MOST people dont ever need more. If you seen stock headstuds go out at 15psi then they must have been reused. The stock headgasket is the best one.

 

[BulletShiftTSi]

other people have done more with less done to there car I'm talking about safety reliable fun on a daily drivin car.

You can put and do less to your car but you will run a higher risk of damaging something or not having enough upgraded parts for if/when you go with a bigger set up.

other people have seen 500hp+ on stock blocks but safety in mind is 450hp you might be able to get away with out the head studs and mls gasket but you will always run the risk everyday of stretching or blowing the headgasket instead of doing the right work and driving with ease knowing your in the clear.

those are my suggestions.

 

[BulletShiftTSi]

6.6@201mph
1734awhp 73psi on a blown 13g

what? thats total crap thee fastest 4g63 motor in the world held by brent reau is 6.94
and john shephard is at 7.70

a 13g is thee second smallest turbo for these cars. I wouldn't trust too much in what jefferycastgsx has to say if he thinks thats even close to possible.

if your running 201 in the quarter whats your 5th gear ratio?
at 201mph you need two parachutes on the back of your car and a roll cage which you don't have
not even brent nor john have 1700+hp
and in your profile you state you have a sleeper 16g

prove it

 

[e85_4g63]

6.6@201mph
1734awhp 73psi on a blown 13g

what? thats total crap thee fastest 4g63 motor in the world held by brent reau is 6.94
and john shephard is at 7.70

a 13g is thee second smallest turbo for these cars. I wouldn't trust too much in what jefferycastgsx has to say if he thinks thats even close to possible.

if your running 201 in the quarter whats your 5th gear ratio?
at 201mph you need two parachutes on the back of your car and a roll cage which you don't have
not even brent nor john have 1700+hp
and in your profile you state you have a sleeper 16g

prove it

That 13g has a lot of shaft play too! Take it easy man, that's just in his sig. to add humor, everyone knows MY 13g in the t25 hotside (lightly ported mind you) has made way more power then that, not to mention I have VTAK (veriable transistor accumulator kenetizers) in my car! I'll stop now before I get into trouble with the moderator's...