Multiple codes, running lean, no power, bogs down

[ChiTownHussla]

Hi all, I am back with a new dsm under my belt. Traded my original one for a del sol because my mechanical abilities weren't up to par to keep my dsm up and running right. Plus my budget was really tight .

Anyways I have a 2g 1997 GSX AWD mostly stock. Problems that I know about are a fuel sender unit gasket leak. This will be fixed by next week. I will order gasket on Friday when I get paid.

I am getting multiple codes at once here.
p0170_ from what I understand it means its running lean
p0136- again I found out its bank 1 o2 sensor
p0141- bank 2 o2 sensor
p1500- Alternator or failed ECU
p0443-evap code (guessing cause of the gasket)
p1105- unknown what it can be to me

What would make all of these go at once? now I have cleared the system this morning and am waiting to see what comes back up.Can it be the CAS sensor?

what do you guys recommend my plan of attack to be? I would rather not spend over 150$ in o2 sensor if something else is causing the lean condition.

 

[Theturdburgler]

The sending gasket is causing the evap codes. The pump could be installed incorrectly causing the lean condition. Make sure the o ring for the pump isn't torn.

 

[ChiTownHussla]

Ok wellvthe guy u traded for it said it was running great a few months ago. He rarely used the car because of the sender leak. So it's almost like out of the blue just started running lean can I apply 12 volts directly to the pump using a jumper wire and see if that helps? Maybe it's not getting enough juice? It's a wally 190

 

[andrewshowers]

May sound dumb but check your fuel filter, it could be clogged causing a fuel flow problem. Also do you have a way to check the fuel pressure?

 

[ChiTownHussla]

Filter was already swapped for a new one. Previous owner did 6 an from tank to filter. New filter is in. I will try to check fuel pressure tomorrow. Any other things to check while I am at my teachers shop.?

 

[delta448]

Fuel sender gasket, as in the dash fuel level gauge or an aftermarket fuel pressure gauge? Cause if the leak is at the tank, it needs fixed but that's probably not going to cause any of this.

p0136 Downstream O2 Sensor
p0141 Downstream O2 Sensor Heater

These two are because there is no rear O2 sensor plugged in to the harness. It's probably not there because there's also no longer a catalytic convertor on your car.

p0170 Fuel trim

You probably either have an exhaust leak before the front O2 sensor, a clogged injector (less likely) or the front O2 sensor is dying/dead. This code is set when the ECU maxes out the long term fuel trim at plus or minus 12.5% fuel.

p0443 Evaporative Emissions solenoid

This solenoid is on the firewall and vents gas fume emissions from the gas tank into the intake manifold. If the solenoid is still there and connected to the wiring harness, it's no good anymore.

p1105 Fuel Pressure Solenoid

This solenoid is on the driver's side of the firewall connected between the intake manifold and the fuel pressure regulator. Same deal as with the Evap solenoid, if it's still there, it's toast.

p1500 Alternator field FR terminal

Alternator needs replaced immediately. You will fry your ECU and other electronics when the alternator starts outputting 18V instead of 14V.


Do you have a tuning solution that allows you to disable certain DTC's? If so, replace the alternator right away, the front O2 sensor as soon as possible and then see if you still get p0170.
Ignore the other codes.

Oh, and No, it's not your CAS.

 

[ChiTownHussla]

Thank you wiseman . I will get on your suggestions immediately. U said ALternator, and front o2. and then reset codes right? I will have this done by monday. rent is coming up if not I would do now

ok guys UPDATE TIME:

I went to O Reillys and got a new upstream o2 sensor. REmoved the old one, and put in new only to find the connector was a circle instead of the square like my harness needs. Needless to say I returned it but I have to wait until tomorrow to get the new square kind one. Old one looked old and blackish.

As far as the rear o2 sensor goes, I dont have one i guess . I see no catalytic converter only a test pipe. So that knocks out 2 codes right there.

And as far as the alternator goes I am getting 14 volts at battery so I don;t think its overcharging. What I did see though, was that there is a bracket on the alternator wires with a bolt hole for a bolt. I believe this is for a ground but I have an aftermarket Downpipe. Can I just run a jumper wire from a body ground to that hole? please give me your opinions.

Thanks in advance Wisemen!!!

 

[ChiTownHussla]

Ok guys. Replaced the front 02 sensor. Slight difference but still runs lean and has no power with hesitation. Will that bolt for what I think is the ground really needed? Can I just jumper wire it? Andvalso how can I do the rear o2 simulation without link or wideband?

 

[snowborder714]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...making-your-own-rear-o2-bypass-simulator.html

 

[delta448]

I am getting 14 volts at battery so I don;t think its overcharging.

If you're getting p1500, the ECU is not restricting the field current of the alternator with respect to electrical load. The alternator may continue to overcharge until something blows up.

What I did see though, was that there is a bracket on the alternator wires with a bolt hole for a bolt. I believe this is for a ground but I have an aftermarket Downpipe.

Will that bolt for what I think is the ground really needed? Can I just jumper wire it?

If there's less than 0.5 Ohms resistance between the alternator case and the battery negative terminal, then it's properly grounded.

I think you should get the battery and alternator tested at the parts store ASAP.

Replaced the front 02 sensor. Slight difference but still runs lean and has no power with hesitation.

How do you know it's running lean?
Did you reset the ECU's fuel trims by pulling off the battery terminal?
Have you used seafoam to verify that there are no exhaust leaks before the sensor?

Do you have a datalogger?

 

[ChiTownHussla]

If you're getting p1500, the ECU is not restricting the field current of the alternator with respect to electrical load. The alternator may continue to overcharge until something blows up.


If there's less than 0.5 Ohms resistance between the alternator case and the battery negative terminal, then it's properly grounded.

I will check resistance now.

I think you should get the battery and alternator tested at the parts store ASAP.
battery and alternator were replaced by previous owner but alternators are known to be faulty


How do you know it's running lean?
Did you reset the ECU's fuel trims by pulling off the battery terminal?
Have you used seafoam to verify that there are no exhaust leaks before the sensor?
I know its running lean because narrowband gauge? maybe thats bad but also the car has no power and hesitates and bogs down.
I will use seafoam tomorrow to check for leaks.


Do you have a datalogger?

No I do not have a datalogger

Ok guys this isnt a bump but more of an update, I made a video. You can see boost build and hear it, but u can also see rpms not rly going anywhere. maybe a video can help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAu0YWuTQA0&list=UUiICsFgDxcQmXiMznojJ74w&index=1&feature=plpp_video

Any ideas and or comments? I pulled the plugs and they are bpr6es11. I thought we are supposed to use bpr7? Can this make an issue? I am basically stock.

And also video is now up

OK guys update time,

I have only codes for the rear o2 sensor heater and bank1 sensor 2.

I have evap code (### of the leak at fuel tank gasket)
will fix ^^^ this next week

last one was 1500. Above it says that the alternator is overcharging but that is not the case. I put a snap on scanner and did real time data logging. I hit a max of 14.3 then went down to 12.9-13.7.
So I don't think that is the problem.

Some things I did figure out though, is when I take off the vacuum hose off of the Fuel Pressure Regulator, nothing happens. even if I take off the driverside most vacuum hose off the intake Mani, nothing happens... Vacuum is at idle a steady 19 in HG.

What is the fitting for the fuel rail so I can hook up the fuel pressure tester?

Fuel I think is the issue , now I need to know why. Thanks for the help .

 

[ChiTownHussla]

Ok guys update time:

Found a pre o2 sensor leak at downpipe to turbo. Will fix it today. my o2 sensor was reading like .020 volts so like 20 MV. So that means supersuper lean.

Also I had the ST fuel trim go from 12.5-17.5
And had the LT fuel trim at 12.5

This led me to believe that o2 leak or fuel issue. I checked the easier of the 2 which was o2 and found the leak. New gasket today should clear it up.

I will report back as soon as I can and update

ok update #2 for today. changed the downpipe gasket. cleared up 85% of the issues. now my narrow band reads much more time in stoich than lean . but still pegs at lean sometimes. boost hits nice but I feel like I am not receiving enough fuel. any ideas? I will do the fuel tank gasket tomorrow hopefully.

 

[ChiTownHussla]

OK guys new update. Car is still running crappy. I will try to test my fuel pressure. one thing I did notice when I was at junkyard today looking for parts for other car, was that the junkyard car had a ground on the alternator. Mine does not. i took the nut from the junkyard one because I know I have a ground just hanging next to alternator thinking I can just hook it up. Well when I got back to my car, mine has no post for it!!! wtf? Hopefully autozone has the correct tool to check the fuel pressure. I will also swap out FPR with junkyard one , maybe that is it also. any ideas questions or comments pleases tell me. I will trade ECU from a local member on Saturday I think also.

 

[ChiTownHussla]

New update. Swapped ecu out and drove for like 6 min. No codes. I'm sure the rear o2 sensor code takes more time than that. But the 1500 is gone. Or at least didn't show up in that time frame. The car seemed to run better until boost. Same issue. Hesitation and the a backfire. I looked at my fuel pump wires and whatnot to make sure wires were soldered. They are. And it also had "full blown " on the pump cover. I will order the special adaptors to test the fuel pressure. Also the fpr doesn't cure my long start issue.

 

[cnordelo]

If you get some time test the voltage from each injector
Also look into the injector pulses. There has to be something that caused the ecu to flip out.

 

[ChiTownHussla]

I do remember checking the milliseconds for injectors and my teacher said those were OK. Butbi will check voltage later today if I can. Any suggestions?

 

[delta448]

I pulled the plugs and they are bpr6es11. I thought we are supposed to use bpr7? Can this make an issue? I am basically stock.

BPR6ES are OE spec plugs, 7's are one step colder.

Some things I did figure out though, is when I take off the vacuum hose off of the Fuel Pressure Regulator, nothing happens. even if I take off the driverside most vacuum hose off the intake Mani, nothing happens... Vacuum is at idle a steady 19 in HG.

Is it a stock FPR?

What is the fitting for the fuel rail so I can hook up the fuel pressure tester?

If you have a stock FPR, you have to install a T adapter between the high pressure hose and the fuel rail. MD998742 is the adapter, MD998709 is the hose and gauge. If you have an aftermarket AFPR, there is usually a port on it for a screw in type pressure gauge.

Ok guys update time:

Found a pre o2 sensor leak at downpipe to turbo. Will fix it today. my o2 sensor was reading like .020 volts so like 20 MV. So that means supersuper lean.

Also I had the ST fuel trim go from 12.5-17.5
And had the LT fuel trim at 12.5

This led me to believe that o2 leak or fuel issue. I checked the easier of the 2 which was o2 and found the leak. New gasket today should clear it up.

I will report back as soon as I can and update

I'm sure you know, but if the O2 sensor is seeing oxygen from an exhaust leak, it is going to tell you you're lean even when you definitely aren't. Also, the ECU adjusts fuel trims by the O2 sensor feedback, so when the sensor reads more oxygen and tells the ECU it's lean, the ECU increases fueling with the fuel trims until the fuel trims run out of adjustment.

ok update #2 for today. changed the downpipe gasket. cleared up 85% of the issues. now my narrow band reads much more time in stoich than lean . but still pegs at lean sometimes. boost hits nice but I feel like I am not receiving enough fuel. any ideas? I will do the fuel tank gasket tomorrow hopefully.

It should go lean after a short pause when you let off the throttle at moderate rpm, the ECU shuts off the injectors during engine braking.

Sounds like fuel pressure is not rising with boost or you have a fuel leak.

It's a wally 190

How sure are you? Just one pump?

New update. Swapped ecu out and drove for like 6 min. No codes. I'm sure the rear o2 sensor code takes more time than that. But the 1500 is gone. Or at least didn't show up in that time frame. The car seemed to run better until boost. Same issue. Hesitation and the a backfire. I looked at my fuel pump wires and whatnot to make sure wires were soldered. They are. And it also had "full blown " on the pump cover. I will order the special adaptors to test the fuel pressure. Also the fpr doesn't cure my long start issue.

Zeroing the fuel trims back out by resetting the ECU probably did much more than swapping the ECU out.

Is this the pump hanger/cover you have?

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If you get some time test the voltage from each injector

Disconnect and test the injector resistor pack's resistance and the individual injector resistance instead of injector voltages. The only voltage to check is between the resistor pack input (pin 3) and ground, which should be ~12-13V with the engine off and the ignition switch on run. The resistor pack provides a dropped voltage level to all of the OEM low impedance injectors, the ECU simply grounds the other terminal of each injector in order to fire it.

The injectors should be 2-3 Ohms between the two pins.

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[bryanwheat]

Do you have an AEM wideband so you can see exactly where you stand on the fuel air ratio.

No he has a narrowband o2 sensor.

I do remember checking the milliseconds for injectors and my teacher said those were OK. Butbi will check voltage later today if I can. Any suggestions?

I would stop relying on that narrowband o2 sensor and check for boost leaks. It sounds more like you have a rich condition under boost. What do the plugs look like, are they black, or white on the tip. Also the part on the alternator that you are talking about being a ground isn't a ground, it is just a tab that holds the wiring harness to the back of the alternator. The alternator grounds thru the mounting bolts.

 

[ChiTownHussla]

thanks for the more than great advice guys. I will buy new bpr6 plugs this weekend.
Yes my fpr is stock.
I am buying the AN lines to adapt my teachers fuel pressure tester tonight. I should receive by this weekend.
The previous owner said it was a double pumper.
Yes I have the purple cover that says full blown with the little turbo picture.
And I will check injector pack resistor by friday also.

The narrowband is not as accurate I know, but I just got the car and don't really want to add more to it. Kinda wanna keep it stockish. For now it just serves as a guide. I am not using it for any tuning purpose, just as a visual aid. I will update when I have relelvant info to add.

AGAIN THANKS GUYS

 

[delta448]

I would stop relying on that narrowband o2 sensor and check for boost leaks. It sounds more like you have a rich condition under boost. What do the plugs look like, are they black, or white on the tip.

I agree.

...

Stop relying on a NB and just fix all the exhaust and boost leaks.

As long as the 7 plugs aren't fouled with soot and are gapped properly, leave them alone.
If you have a stock FPR and return line but are running a dual pump hanger with two 190lph pumps, you are probably overrunning the FPR.
The resistor pack is probably fine, I only added that FSM snip because someone said to measure voltage.

 

[ChiTownHussla]

If I am overrrunning the fpr , would that cause these issues? if so I will buy the afpr. Just wanna know what to buy

I will check resistance today at 3 pm. Will check spark plug gap and also take pics of them for you guys. I found a local guy with a really cheap afpr . Will get that on sunday. Will update later to day with pics and what I found for resistance values

 

[ChiTownHussla]

Ok guys , update time!!!
Went out and bought a AFPR. it says my Fuel pressure at idle is about 34PSI. It was unsuccessful at changing it to make it higher, but it could make it go lower. I did all this with the guy who sold me the AFPR and he says I have something clogged perhaps? Any IDeas? I will log and check codes tomorrow to see what came up. I drove aver 125 miles with no major hiccups. Just the issue while in boost.

One thing I did notice though, was that when I started to take her out she would stutter alot. Then I fueled up about 20$ worth. And she was back up and running decently. This is odd but maybe the double pumper setup needs more fuel in tank to work properly? I am just throwing out ideas and hopefully someone can say I am right or shoot me down and tell me why.

Again thanks guys.

My next plan of attack is to remove fuel pump(s) because I have to replace that gasket anyways. I will then proceed to check the socks for dirtyness or big debris. Is there a way to check the check valve at the pump? That causes a long start issue right? because of lack of pressure?

 

[ChiTownHussla]

Anybody?

 

[delta448]

Check the pumps and fix the gasket. Might want to do a relay/heavy gauge re-wire while you're at it.

I think you have a bad fuel leak in-tank in the double hanger setup. Do you still have the car's stock pump hanger?

 

[ChiTownHussla]

What is meant by checking the pumps? I will open that all up and rewire also when I get th gasket from stm. I do see fuel "pooling " on top of the purple hangar. And no I do not have stock hangar and if I did I have 6 AN lines so I would need to modify