Megan Racing EZ Series good for DD?

[pboglio]

What cait sith is describing is dead on for a new set of Ksports. They can't handle/absorb small bumps without dialing down the adjustment knob, which it then makes it harder for the strut to control the stiff as hell springs on larger bumps. If you dial up the compression/rebound settings, then the car will hop sideways midcorner if the roads are not pool table smooth. The suspension travel is also short, I've gotten launched full airborne in long sweeping high speed corners that had a dip in the road, not a bump. The high frequency bouncing at highway speeds is a given with stiff spring setups and I can handle that. But what is hard to stomach is the fact every small bump or drop in the road feels like you got dropped off a cliff, not fun.

These coilovers are also extremely susceptible to dirt contamination, taking out the internal seals. The anodized aluminum corrodes and freezes the spring perch and locking nuts, making strut removal impossible. If they are over adjusted on compression settings, then they tend to have no give and blow out, easy thing to do. You are paying $700 suspension that will stay in mint shape for maybe 2-3 years, afterwards you need to start purchasing replacement struts. Its cheaper to pay for a quality suspension system in the long run.

My OEM suspension on the 05 STi is as stiff as the K-sports, yet it'll suck up all the small bumps, no launching in the air cause the rates are progressive and I have tons of suspension travel, and doesn't skitter sideways when encountering small mid corner bumps, has more roll resistance, etc. They also are going on close to 7 years without any deterioration.

 

[cait sith]

To be fair, my JIC setup also went to crap in 2 years also after driving them through the New England winter, which should really point people to Koni if they want something that will last a long(er) time.

 

[Doubleot]

My Megan street series coilovers have been threw 2 utah winters daily driven, no squeaks or leaks or any problems to this day.

 

[Ludachris]

If you dig deeper you'll figure out who used them at the track and can tell you they're crap. They're cheap for a reason, not because Megan magically found a way to make an Ohlins shock at a KYB price, but because you're sacrificing performance for price. Read up on Dennis Grant's site about what most of the popular coilovers have in common. His research is a little dated, but it still applies to most of the garbage the average DSMer buys today.

Simply put, they're a cheap coilover for people who just want to be able to lower their car. Sure, they might not have a reputation of breaking while you drive, but if that's your only requirement, you're asking the wrong questions. If you're looking for dyno plots on them to prove they're not junk, you won't find too many of them because not enough people have access to a shock dyno. Dennis Grant did some testing and posted his findings. Read those and you'll come away wanting to buy Konis instead. What you'll find more of is real world experience at the track, which will relate to the street in many ways - I'd suggest spending some time in the Road Racing forum and doing more research there.

I understand you're looking for someone to prove why these are junk to help you justify your decision to buy them. But instead of just writing off all the discussions you came across because you didn't see dyno plots, listen to what some of the gurus are saying and pay attention to the guys who have had track experience. Don't just dismiss their experience thinking they're just being ignorant about these coilovers simply because they're cheap.

The DSM community is losing good quality parts every day because people continue to buy the cheap crap. 1g guys already lost out when Koni recently stopped making the rear shocks.

 

[Leonthefaded]

I think the topic got so far off what the OP asked in the beginning which was are the megan racing ez series good for his dd .

Me personally if I had a DD Eclipse and hit the track on some weekends. Id try the megans out. If I didn't like them I could just switch them out to what it was before, and resell the megans.

 

[Ludachris]

Well I've read about people talking about a great coilover setup running like 2k, but I've only seen tein coilovers running that much. I'm not wanting to get into competive racing, just the occasional track day. I'm running bike track days right now, and hopefully within the next couple years, I can earn an MCRA license or a CCS license.

A quality, well designed coilover for the DSM runs at least $2k - that's not a true racing coilover. That's a quality coilover. Think Muellerized JIC coilovers, Robispec Variant 3's, Hot Bits, and even the Dennis Grant custom coilovers based on Koni shocks that people are building for their 2g these days.

Very few shops will even carry those. The really good stuff will be much more expensive - Ohlins, Penske, etc. You won't find those being sold anywhere though.

Required reading for 2g suspension, with some insight on coilovers:
Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - Suspension
Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - Buying Shocks

 

[Leonthefaded]

A quality, well designed coilover for the DSM runs at least $2k - that's not a true racing coilover. That's a quality coilover. Think Muellerized JIC coilovers, Robispec Variant 3's, Hot Bits, and even the Dennis Grant custom coilovers based on Koni shocks that people are building for their 2g these days.

Very few shops will even carry those. The really good stuff will be much more expensive - Ohlins, Penske, etc. You won't find those being sold anywhere though.

Required reading for 2g suspension, with some insight on coilovers:
Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - Suspension
Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - Buying Shocks

Thank you for that article; its going to be very useful in many ways. Over the next year and a half

 

[Ludachris]

I think the topic got so far off what the OP asked in the beginning which was are the megan racing ez series good for his dd .

Me personally if I had a DD Eclipse and hit the track on some weekends. Id try the megans out. If I didn't like them I could just switch them out to what it was before, and resell the megans.

Again, for daily driving and someone who just wants to lower their car and doesn't really care about true handling characteristics, the cheap Megans are going to be fine.

But the OP also made comments about how the suspension gurus were stating that they were crap without evidence, which is untrue. If he wants to justify his purchase without taking some of the experience around here into consideration, that's fine. But don't dismiss the findings around here just because you don't see dyno plots, and don't expect us to provide the proof and findings of the community to show that what we've been saying is true. It's up to the person looking for information to do the research, not for us to prove his theories wrong. There has been plenty of real world track experience that has gone into the discussions about the cheap coilovers and more than enough data to pull from. If you want to dismiss all of that to feel better about a purchase of an inferior product to save some money, so be it.

It seems all people really want to hear is - these coilovers are fine. You can pay less than half the price of a quality set of coilovers and they'll do just fine for you. If that's what the person wants to hear, who are we to steer them in a different direction? If they're not going to believe us without seeing a dyno plot, oh well. The decision has already been made. The burden of proof always lands on our shoulders to show exactly why the cheap coilovers are junk for some reason. It's become futile.

Maybe someone can show me a list of DSMers that have won autocross, Time Trials, or club racing championships with cheap coilvers (again, using a DSM, not another car). Maybe they can provide that proof and show that what some of us have found is incorrect - instead of always expecting the proof to come from the naysayers.

 

[Ludachris]

Thank you for that article; its going to be very useful in many ways. Over the next year and a half

It took Dennis (and others who have competed with DSMs) several years to work through the suspension of these cars by trial and error. If someone is really looking for real world proof about what's good and why, it's going to take some reading.

 

[Ludachris]

Not a single user on this community claims he truely tested the Megan EZs and found the coilovers are bad. The gurus keep telling the Megans are cheap so they are junk. Where are the dynos or the numbers that prove they are right? Sure, the EZ Series is not comparable with KW V3 or 16k$ racing coils, but I couldn't find any information about how the EZs failed in daily driving. That's why I started that thread.

There are a lot of posts and threads where people talk about installation and driving right after installation (it's obvious a car with new cheap coilovers will handle better than with 100k miles old stock ones), but there are only a few posts (no reviews, neither good nor bad) of users who had them for a year or longer. Did everybody die in a horrible crash caused by the cheap coils?

I remember seeing some reviews by people who tried them at the track. They're not believed to be bad because they break prematurely. They're known to be a cheap design and they don't handle that well. Sure, they feel sporty and tight and allow you to lower the car, but that doesn't constitute good handling. Let's put it this way - I haven't found any DSMer competing in any type of racing (that requires turning of the wheel) at any level that has had succes with Megan coilovers. They might be out there, but it's definitely not common.

If you're looking for something that won't break while daily driving, I'm sure these will do fine for you. I haven't read anything catastrophic happening to people using them. But don't expect the quality of a Koni shock in terms of performance, consistency and wear. When I buy tools at Harbor Freight I know not to expect Craftsman quality. So long as you understand that, you're okay.

 

[Ludachris]

I would buy the megan ezs, but I have better investments I can consider for my project and build. Other bolt ons and maintenance parts I can get ahead of time.

FYI IMO my stock suspension has proved to be the "Best" ride I've ever experianced in these cars. I've ridden on tein basics, cut springs, and have driven another friends car on ksports.

Have you driven a DSM with Konis?

 

[Leonthefaded]

Have you driven a DSM with Konis?

Not yet, but from the number of users in this community that have. I know that Konis are a very good option for myself. Right now I'm on stock, which are great for the moment, later down the line ill need something "better" than stock.

Off the top of my head my choices which change daily are
1 Hotbits
2 Koni ( based on user community success)
3 Tein (based on previous ownership)

 

[Ludachris]

You should really consider the Muellierized JIC kit too. John Mueller has been working with these for quite a while and builds them specifically to suit your car. I believe Greg Collier was using Muellerized JIC's on his championship winning 1g some years back. Mueller knows his stuff. Even though Dennis Grant has stated that JIC is crap, the fact that Collier was able to win with them, it makes me believe Mueller has a good recipe.

Robispec is another big name in suspension. He takes the KW V3 and puts his own magic into them with a 2g kit. He's been killing it with other cars and the few that have ponied up the cash to buy them for a 2g have had great things to say about them. If I had the cash I'd have Robispec make me a club kit for my 1g in a heart beat (which is the track version - the V3 is a street kit that is more compliant).

Hotbits are known more in the rally world but they've put out some good kits for road racing DSMs too. Really good stuff but less information floating around about them.

If I couldn't afford any of these for the 2g I'd go with the Dennis Grant plan which features Konis and sourced parts that he's spec'd out on his site. It's easily the cheapest option out there and would be the best coilovers for the buck, beating out anything in the $700-2000 price range in terms of performance, quality, and compliance on the street and the track.

 

[Leonthefaded]

You should really consider the Muellierized JIC kit too. John Mueller has been working with these for quite a while and builds them specifically to suit your car. I believe Greg Collier was using Muellerized JIC's on his championship winning 1g some years back. Mueller knows his stuff. Even though Dennis Grant has stated that JIC is crap, the fact that Collier was able to win with them, it makes me believe Mueller has a good recipe.

Robispec is another big name in suspension. He takes the KW V3 and puts his own magic into them with a 2g kit. He's been killing it with other cars and the few that have ponied up the cash to buy them for a 2g have had great things to say about them. If I had the cash I'd have Robispec make me a club kit for my 1g in a heart beat (which is the track version - the V3 is a street kit that is more compliant).

Hotbits are known more in the rally world but they've put out some good kits for road racing DSMs too. Really good stuff but less information floating around about them.

If I couldn't afford any of these for the 2g I'd go with the Dennis Grant plan which features Konis and sourced parts that he's spec'd out on his site. It's easily the cheapest option out there and would be the best coilovers for the buck, beating out anything in the $700-2000 price range in terms of performance, quality, and compliance on the street and the track.

I took a look at the Muellerized ones just now and I'll have to give these guys an email or call about these. 2000 dollars seems much but then again I was going to pay double that for Hotbits. From the picture the construction looks alot better than Tein I'll have to read some reviews and talk to some owners of this set.

 

[Ludachris]

I took a look at the Muellerized ones just now and I'll have to give these guys an email or call about these. 2000 dollars seems much but then again I was going to pay double that for Hotbits. From the picture the construction looks alot better than Tein I'll have to read some reviews and talk to some owners of this set.

Just to give you some background on the Muellerized JIC kit - there haven't been a whole lot of guys who have run a DSM in road racing. Mueller has worked with RRE for quite some time now and everyone knows RRE is one of the few shops that raced the 1g on road courses back in the day. The road racing heritage at RRE makes them easily one of the trusted resources when it comes to handling for DSMs. And Mueller has been part of that for quite a while. He took the JICs and customized the kit (not sure about the details, as he keeps his recipe secret). He's since moved on to newer cars like the Evo, but he'll still build you a set of JICs.

The fact that he's worked with RRE alone is one of the reasons I'd trust him to build me some JICs. Combine that with the success he's had with racing and suspension building, and how can you go wrong? These are the guys that Greg Collier trusted when he was winning NASA Super Unlimited championships in his 1g. Not everyone wants to road race their cars, but the products used for road racing tend to do well on the street as well simply because it's quality stuff. See who's winning and what they're winning with.

 

[Leonthefaded]

Those are some interesting facts and some names I will be looking into, especially for my build. I know where my money is going to be invested, when time comes. I know its still little off topic but how long does it take him to build a set off hand?

I sent him an email!!!!! Highhopes for me

 

[snowborder714]

I took a look at the Muellerized ones just now and I'll have to give these guys an email or call about these. 2000 dollars seems much but then again I was going to pay double that for Hotbits. From the picture the construction looks alot better than Tein I'll have to read some reviews and talk to some owners of this set.

Wait...you were going to pay a ton for Hotbits, but yet you promote K-Sport/Megans? WTF

 

[Leonthefaded]

Wait...you were going to pay a ton for Hotbits, but yet you promote K-Sport/Megans? WTF

Promote is a strong word.

I would use Ksports on a DD, or a civic to raise or lower my car. I wouldnt have too high of expecations on performance, but more so astetics and flash.

Megans I would use for my DD, also to raise or lower my vehicle, I would expect them to have better "performance" then Ksports. Astetics and flash

Tein I would use for my DD or projectcar, raise and lower, track and street. I would expect Tein to uphold to all of my previous experiances and "out perform" Ksports and Megans.

My eyes are strongly fixed on Muellerized JICs

Keep in mind when I use the word "performance" or "perform" I'm talking about the overall experiance to include everything from ride quality, ease of use to function.

 

[snowborder714]

Just curious why you don't really like or seem to consider Koni yellows. Is it because it'll take work to piece together the whole system?

 

[Leonthefaded]

Just curious why you don't really like or seem to consider Koni yellows. Is it because it'll take work to piece together the whole system?

That is a big reason.

 

[Ludachris]

Just curious why you don't really like or seem to consider Koni yellows. Is it because it'll take work to piece together the whole system?

I'm sure that's the big draw back for most, as it's the only real explanation as to why anyone would choose one of the cheaper popular 2g coilover kits that have the big design flaw of no front upper pillow ball mount. Any 2g coilover kit that does not include a front upper pillow ball mount to prevent the spring from sitting directly on the upper top mount is not considered to be a performance coilover, at all. The car will likely handle worse than stock, even if it feels more sporty. It's a major design issue and is the main reason why the coilover is cheap in the first place. The problem is most 2g owners don't know about that design issue and don't care enough about the drawbacks to spend the money on the right product. So long as the car is lower and feels more sporty and doesn't break, they're content and give the coilover a glowing review. Then everyone thinks it's a good product.

 

[cait sith]

Just a slight correction for you, it's not just pillow ball that's important, it's the coaxial hat plus the pillow ball that makes things so important for 2G front suspension.

 

[Ludachris]

Just a slight correction for you, it's not just pillow ball that's important, it's the coaxial hat plus the pillow ball that makes things so important for 2G front suspension.

thanks - that's what I meant... just worded it wrong.

 

[Leonthefaded]

I'm glad there are people out there that know about stuff like suspension systems that can explain this. I don't know a lot about them. I fall into the same category luda explained. As long as it doesn't break, feels sporty, doesn't fall below my limited unknowledgeble expectations. Ill call it good.

Hardcore, or better performance enthusiasts and more educated individuals know better.