maf translator help for a newbie

[ratatack]

ok so i have this major problem maybe some one can direct me about it. to start out with im new to the dsm world i purchased a 97 eclipse gst spyder that needed new rod barrings upon getting it i decided it would be wise to have the whole engine overhauled and have the crank turned or replaced and so on well i dont knw anything really about this car i got it bc i was in need of a car and i was tired of hondas and wanted something new and would get enjoyment out of i paid a guy to pull the engine and take it to a engine shop where id have the work professionally done with a warrenty and so fourth 2700 dollars later i get the engine back in runs mechanically sound but has a idoling problem i get it home and realize the black box (translator box) isnt hooked up (this should be the idoling problem i have? ) i dont know about this box this is where i need you guys help for advice in hooking it up right and i can get it tuned id really apreciate all the help i can get bc i dont know what im doing i have a friend that semi knows but needs some guidance bc he has never seen a translator box like this bf HELP

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[JMiller]

In pic 1-3 those are normally capped off when people remove there emissions stuff and they leave them plugged in so it wont throw a code, i would assume on the top of the throttle body there are between 2 and 4 nipples capped off. Now for pics 4 and 5, Picture 4 looks like the BCS(not %100 sure) and if there is a MBC or EBC there shouldn't be anything connected to it(but leave it plugged in so it won't throw a code). For Picture 5 i have no idea, if it wasn't 4:30 in the morning i would go check my car and find out. If no one chimes in on pic 5 by the time i wake up I'll go out and see what it is and where it goes.

Vaccum Diagram
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/198327-taboo-speed-shop-vacuum-diagram-removal-1g-2g.html

Virtual Tour of 2G engine
Virtual Tour of the DSM Engine Bay - 1G Visual Index

And 1G
Virtual Tour of the DSM Engine Bay - 1G Visual Index

 

[ratatack]

"]thank you so much this should help me at least under stand im a 26 year old single female when my friends work on my car sometimes they are talking about a part on the car for instance cam sensor normally i wouldnt know what the heck they were talking about bc i usually dont bother with my engine take it to a shop and have it fixed but now with this car i need to learn and not to mention i would probably have to shell out major money that i dont have at a shop and possibly not done right this virtual tour is going to serve as my dummy guide and hopefully next time my buddies ask me where something is ill know for real ..........[/COLOR]

 

[rush2252]

EDIT to the taboo speed shop vacuum diagram reference DO NOT use the "T" for you boost source to the Manual Boost Controller and Wastegate on the turbo. Run the Boost source for the WGA (wastegate actuator) on the turbo from either the compressor housing nipple (stock T25) or the Jpipe nipple if youve swappd to an MHI turbo. Then run an independent line from the Large nipple on the intake manifold to the BOV blow off valve. Other than that the link is awesome

The two plugs close to the intake that arent being used are for the MAP sensor on the 2g mani. You have the 1g which doesnt use the MAP sensor. Then the 2g plugs on the driver side near the timing cover are for the stock coil pack and A/C or they look like them. Hard to tell from the bottom pics in your first post.

As for your "speed sensor" Those plugs are used to manually engage the fuel pump for testing fuel pressure (brown) And the ground terminal for checking timing (blue)

The CAM sensor is toast get it replaced.


I just re-read the entire post... If the CAMS are set to +5* and you have no other way to tune except the MAFT this is most likely the issue. You can still line up the Dowel pins to 12 oclock on both cam and then the timing mark on the crank to TDC. Set your timing back to base or I would then adjust the BISS to get it to idle. (screw on the throttle body frontside)

If your mechanical timing is off (cam gears) Then your going to have trouble getting the car to idle or run correctly as the 2gs have no way to adjust electronic timing. I see you did a 6bolt swap but kept the 2gb 97-99 non adjustable CAS (CAM sensor) as well. USUALLY You go wth the 1g CAS (similar to your honda distributor you move it one way to advance timing and the other to retard ).

Just from the pics I can see alot of things that are going to give you fits. I cant upload the vid becaue im not an Apple user


And to clear things it looks like you have a 1g motor most likely a 6bolt with a 1ghead and intake manifold. The CAS looks to be a 97-99CAS the non adjutable type

 

[eclipse-gs-t]

well did ever try to find about some other dsm guy around your area that will be a lot of help.
I cant see that video there is a way you can download it in other web like google os streetfire.net, youtube

 

[snowborder714]

video link...
http://www.projectviper.com/dsm/100_1884.MOV
(Although not directly related to this thread, I said speed "control" sensor when I meant "speed sensor"...)

First and foremost, you need to go to borrow an OBDII reader from somewhere and pull whatever codes are being thrown. I believe your Check Engine Light is on, and I'm curious as to why.

Please double check which plugs you have hanging on the drivers end of the fuel rail (2nd to last picture in the first post in this thread). I'd guess crankshaft position sensor (because of having a 1g engine) and A/C, but I'd like verification.

The thing in the video (the power transistor) can be left hanging wherever you please.

That plug in the video that was found was probably the MDP sensor so please double check the wire colors, however they might be different. My reasoning being it's in that same general area (MDP sensor sits on top of the 2g manifold), it has 3 pins, and it's not used. If it's not please post up the wire colors and I'll try and find the plug.

That's one thing I'm lost at... this thing has a ton of vacuum ports on all sorts of sensors, which I'm not sure are even needed. You will find photos of all of the sensors that have vacuum ports on them that lead nowhere. Please advise which ones can be unplugged (if any) and also if they need vacuum hoses plugged in, to where they're suppose to be routed.

PIC1

PIC2

PIC3

PIC4

PIC5
Hard to make out, but the white vacuum port that is under the battery.

Those can just be left alone and don't need to be capped off. They don't see any boost/vacuum, so there will be no leaks there. Just make sure they stay plugged in.

On that 2gen connector thread, there is an Engine Speed Detection Connector. I searched and finally found it taped up with electrical tape... it looks like this.... Is it not suppose to be plugged in?

No, that does not need to be plugged in. That is just a test connector, along with the one next to it for the fuel pump (black connector)

This is something else I found while I was checking all of the sensors...
CAM SENSOR
This can't be good. Although the connection is not broken, the plastic part of the sensor itself is. May be a problem, if not down the road.

Yes, that is a pretty big problem, especially if there was damage to the electrical components. This sensor controls spark and fuel, so if it's not working, you'll get neither. I would get a new one. Here's a classified ad with someone selling 2g CAS sensors.
Message - DSM Classifieds

I would not get a 1g CAS sensor right now as Kolby had suggested as that will just give you a bigger headache if not wired in correctly. Get it up and running and then you can worry about it. Here is some more info on the 2gb CAS.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/151751965-post348.html

Unfortunately I have not. I have yet to buy the supplies to make one. I will eventually need to make one for both turbo cars.

Here are two links to help, if you haven't seen them.
IC Pipe Tester
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...-boost-leak-test-how-boostpro-net-tester.html

The adjustable cam gears were pre adjusted before the car was bought, I knew nothing about them so didn't want to mess with them. They were not adjusted when new engine went in. The previous owner had set both intake and exhaust gears to 10 degrees advanced (which is 5 hash marks on each gear.) I didn't want to touch them because they are supposedly custom ground cams....

Ok, then just leave them alone for right now.

In pic 1-3 those are normally capped off when people remove there emissions stuff and they leave them plugged in so it wont throw a code, i would assume on the top of the throttle body there are between 2 and 4 nipples capped off. Now for pics 4 and 5, Picture 4 looks like the BCS(not %100 sure) and if there is a MBC or EBC there shouldn't be anything connected to it(but leave it plugged in so it won't throw a code). For Picture 5 i have no idea, if it wasn't 4:30 in the morning i would go check my car and find out. If no one chimes in on pic 5 by the time i wake up I'll go out and see what it is and where it goes.

Typically, those are actually left open since they won't leak or cause any issues.

The BCS is not shown in any of those pictures. Pictures 4 and 5 are the charcoal canister area.

EDIT to the taboo speed shop vacuum diagram reference DO NOT use the "T" for you boost source to the Manual Boost Controller and Wastegate on the turbo. Run the Boost source for the WGA (wastegate actuator) on the turbo from either the compressor housing nipple (stock T25) or the Jpipe nipple if youve swappd to an MHI turbo. Then run an independent line from the Large nipple on the intake manifold to the BOV blow off valve. Other than that the link is awesome

Make sure if you use nipple on the intake manifold it's one on the front. There's a large nipple on the back, but that's for the brake booster. For right now, I would just make sure there's a line running to your wastegate from a boost source (compressor housing possibly).

The two plugs close to the intake that arent being used are for the MAP sensor on the 2g mani. You have the 1g which doesnt use the MAP sensor. Then the 2g plugs on the driver side near the timing cover are for the stock coil pack and A/C or they look like them. Hard to tell from the bottom pics in your first post.

It's actually an MDP (manifold differential pressure) sensor and not a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor.

As for your "speed sensor" Those plugs are used to manually engage the fuel pump for testing fuel pressure (brown) And the ground terminal for checking timing (blue)

The black is for fuel pump, the blue is for engine speed, and the tan ('95 only - possibly '96 as well) is for timing ground.

And to clear things it looks like you have a 1g motor most likely a 6bolt with a 1ghead and intake manifold. The CAS looks to be a 97-99CAS the non adjutable type

How can you tell what block they have? The only real way to tell what block they have is to look at the oil pan/front case. Or they could look at the water lines. If there's a water line coming from the block (as seen in the first few pictures here), it's a 2g 7 bolt block. If not, it's some variety of a 1g, which would have to be determined by the oil pan/front case.



*whew*

 

[rush2252]

Ah I didnt notice it has the factory 2g mount as well. So its a 2g 7bolt block my apologies. but its definately got a 1g intake manifold and I hope the 1g head.

As for the test connectors brian, the tan connector on my 95 is for the fuel pump and you wouldnt suggest fixing the cams to make sure everything is back to base since she is unsure what all is done to the car? Her profile says they are a 264 intake a 272 exhaust.

 

[snowborder714]

What do you mean "it has the factory 2g mount"?

If the profile is correct, then yes, I'd put them back at 0. But the friend mentioned custom grind. So maybe custom = aftermarket?

Oh, and I want proof on all 3 of your connectors then! Sounds like someone may have done some rewiring or something, because that is not normal.

 

[rush2252]

The driver side mount. Its not all hacked up like when you do the 6bolt swap. You were right about it being a 2g 7bolt. WHY on earth would anybody throw a 1g 7bolt in it?

 

[snowborder714]

I never said it was a 2g 7 bolt. I was just giving her/them some things to look at to help determine what block it is.

Kolby, do you even know what you're talking about?

When you do a 6 bolt swap, you don't have to "hack up" the drivers side motor mount. It just requires a bit of cutting/grinding to clear the water pump. Which you can't see in any of those pictures.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b39/thelmasofast/timing/IMG_1433.jpg

 

[rush2252]

Im doing a horrible job today at explaining things. I guess "modified" mount would be better terms brian. Im just going to take a dose of stfu. Brian 4 Kolby 0

 

[eclipse-gs-t]

can you make another video but this time with the translator, now it looks like the intake doesnt have a filter? cant see.
I dont know if it is only with my computer but this video is so small that i can not see anything? and please let us have a bigger view of the hole engine. thank you

 

[snowborder714]

That is because the video was probably shot at a low resolution. My guess is the translator isn't going to make a difference.

 

[ratatack]

i took a few more shots...

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[snowborder714]

No more updates - just pictures?

 

[ratatack]

i got to shoot another video i guess with the translator on and one with the stock maf on

 

[ratatack]

First and foremost, you need to go to borrow an OBDII reader from somewhere and pull whatever codes are being thrown. I believe your Check Engine Light is on, and I'm curious as to why.

She posted the codes from the reader in a previous post. I'll re-check them and post for you guys...

Please double check which plugs you have hanging on the drivers end of the fuel rail (2nd to last picture in the first post in this thread). I'd guess crankshaft position sensor (because of having a 1g engine) and A/C, but I'd like verification.

Yes, one is the crank sensor, plugged in, the other went to the A/C compressor (which is now gone.)

If the profile is correct, then yes, I'd put them back at 0. But the friend mentioned custom grind. So maybe custom = aftermarket?

Well, the previous owner had said they we're "custom grind" cams... If they make 264/272 sized cams in an aftermarket brand (crower, crane, etc) then that's probably what they are. I'll try resetting the cams back to 0 and re-trying. I'm probably going to replace the CAS this evening as well and try again.

That is because the video was probably shot at a low resolution. My guess is the translator isn't going to make a difference.

Yes, it was... I'll shoot in 640x480 next go around. I'm not even trying the translator until I can get it started and idling correctly without it.

About to get on the car and back to you guys...

As always, thanks again!

S

 

[snowborder714]

Ya, I must've missed the codes, so if you could get them again, that'd be great. That way we have the most up to date codes. Just don't disconnect the battery or they'll be gone!

If the crankshaft position sensor plug is currently plugged in, that means you have a 2g bottom end with a 1g head. I wonder if they tapped the intake cam to accept the sensor...

If you want to know what cams you have, just pop the valve cover off and look for some markings. On that car, "custom grinds" (which usually refer to some very heavy duty cams) are probably just aftermarket ones that you could buy off a shelf. 264 and 272 are very common upgrades.

 

[ratatack]

http://www.projectviper.com/dsm/100_1931.MOV
YouTube - 97 4g63 attempted startup

Any idea?? Like I stated in the video, I've been adjusting the IAC and throttle screws on both IAC and TB... can't seem to find the sweet spot.

Oh, and on the codes, They came up as the same from the last scan with the exception of the first one, Cam Sensor bank 1 Malfunction, MAF or VAF P Circuit Malfunction, IAT Sensor Circuit Malfuntion, MAP/BARO Circuit Malfuntion. I cleared the codes to see if any other ones come up afterwards... so far, no repeats. I've replaced the cam sensor before I shot that video btw.

I didn't want to reset the cams just yet. Below a bill that was supplied with the car and was specifically stated by the previous owner that when worked on, strictly follow these cam specs. Does it make sense to you guys? (Lines I-N)

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Thanks,
S

 

[snowborder714]

Well, that doesn't sound good either way.

Ya, I'd probably leave the cam gears alone for now.

Have you verified your starter solenoid plug is connected (little black plug on starter)?

Have you double checked all the fuses/relays in the fuse box?

I'd suggest removing the ECU (disconnect battery first) and take a bunch of pictures of the board. Something may have blown on there causing the issue.

The ISC is not adjustable. However, I'd remove it and test it with a multimeter to verify it's in good working order.
DmTaLoN's Idle Speed Control Test/Fix Page!



And for the CEL errors, can you get the codes and not the descriptions? You'll have to do this before disconnecting the battery, if you don't have them already.

 

[jeffo]

I'm more than a little confused looking at your pictures. I see the original 2G MAS still installed, and the MAFT box sitting there with the wires hanging out in all directions. Does the MAF Translator have a 2G MAS connector on it, to plug into your MAS harness? Is it plugged in now? Those IAT and BARO codes are caused by the MAFT not being powered up or connected properly, the brown and gray wires. That box generates fake signals to feed to the ECU, to keep from getting MIL's from the factory MAS being missing.
Jeff O.

 

[rush2252]

what in the hell is that fluttering pecking knocking noise in the 2nd video? It really acts like the thing is waaay out of time but I have been wrong in the past "Brian 4 Kolby 0" You could always use a timing light. Do what brian says and keep the timing situation in the back of your mind +5* on both cams seems a little much IMO.

-Kolby

 

[snowborder714]

I guess no one has asked them to verify timing marks Kolby (I forget though), so that might be a good idea to line everything up.

 

[rush2252]

They state earlier that both cams were degreed +5* even for aftermarket cams that seems like quite a bit.

Haha I see what the deal is. Look at the hand written receipt. It says intake exhaust 23*BTDC he probably didnt ground the timing pin when he stuck a light on it and my guess would be he tinkered with the cam gears and that is why they are all screwy. I just noticed that He has probably never messed with a DSM before...

Those cams are specified as 264/272 NEVER heard of timing like he has hand written out there. Take five minutes and check it. Set the dowel pins on both cams at 12 oclock with the crank and TDC then adjust the gears to 0 and see if it will start and run better.

I wouldnt trust anything that mechanic says did you see what he charged?
He flagged 8.0 hours the check the charging system and exhaust leak WTF

 

[-red97rum-]

I guess no one has asked them to verify timing marks Kolby (I forget though), so that might be a good idea to line everything up.

I would do exactly that and also verify the timing marks are all lined up per the timing belt article in the vfaq.

Can you contact the original owner to get some better info about those cams?

Tap a tach signal for the white wire on the MAFT as well. My car idled pretty bad when I first installed my MAFT due to running really lean at idle. Try adjusting the idle knob on the translator box while someone keeps it running to see if it helps at all.

Check the ground for the throttle position sensor, i had a bad ground on my 1g once and the thing idled/ran like absolute shit.

Also, do you have an SAFC in that car by chance? If yes verify the sensor type is karman and zero out all the lo-throttle and hi-throttle points.

There is a specific way to set the idle on these cars, make sure you get familiar with the "bible" found here: VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions

Good luck

 

[ratatack]

Wow! Those last few posts have a lot of info. Definitely gives me a good start. I was kinda leaning towards timing issues looking at the cam gears and these "cams. I do not have a timing light, but will pick one up tomorrow or Thursday.

I'll definitely pop the valve cover off and check for info on them.

I'm more than a little confused looking at your pictures. I see the original 2G MAS still installed, and the MAFT box sitting there with the wires hanging out in all directions. Does the MAF Translator have a 2G MAS connector on it, to plug into your MAS harness? Is it plugged in now? Those IAT and BARO codes are caused by the MAFT not being powered up or connected properly, the brown and gray wires. That box generates fake signals to feed to the ECU, to keep from getting MIL's from the factory MAS being missing.
Jeff O.

Currently the stock MAF is hooked up and plugged in. I've ditched the MAF-T for now until I can get it running without the MAF-T. I've left the GM MAF in place for now mainly because I do not have the hardpipe to tb. This shouldn't necessarily affect the airflow (or would it?) I think the codes were thrown when we unplugged the MAF-T before we had a stock MAF.

And on the reciept, yeah, that shop charged a LOT imo... Those specs kinda lost me too. Unfortunately I do not have a S-AFC, but it has been stated that she needs one in the past. I'll keep you guys updated...

S