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[man_of_saturn]

Just picked up a G4JS-2.4 7bolt thinking it was 4GCS...did I just waste my money?

 

[costas14]

7 bolts in autos dont crank walk......ZWAAAYYYY

 

[blackrosenova40]

I just picked up a 4g64 6 bolt out of a 92 Dodge Colt Vista. Anyone know if there are oil passages that need to be plugged on it?

 

[mobythevan]

Just compare it to your head or head gasket to see.

 

[need2boostpsi]

how many of you guys have your 2.4L up and running. how many miles so far? any tips or information that you found out that wasn't listed in this thread or pieces of info in this thread that you believe to be unnecessary?

Im working on building a 2.4L to replace my stock block and improve my low end and midrange powerband. I plan on revving to 8000RPM's on My T3 .70A/R Hx-40 setup.

 

[1fastlaser]

how many of you guys have your 2.4L up and running. how many miles so far? any tips or information that you found out that wasn't listed in this thread or pieces of info in this thread that you believe to be unnecessary?

Im working on building a 2.4L to replace my stock block and improve my low end and midrange powerband. I plan on revving to 8000RPM's on My T3 .70A/R Hx-40 setup.

Ive had my 2.4 running for over a year. In all ive had it for 6 years. I broke the crank in it 5 years ago. I think the crank had a flaw, and prob other issues+ they cut the crank .

I got lucky, used the same piston rods (they only had 5k on them or so) got a fresh crank and got it back together. I had the crack/clutch/stock 4g63 pulley balanced this time. THIS IS A MUST! The factory 4g63 pulley had to have 3/4 holes drilled on the opposite side of the factory drilled holes to balance it!

Also, I invested in a fluidamper balancer after I got it together, got acl race bearings, and all is good. 26PSI on pump gas with a gt4294 and it rips like no other.


laser beam pulls- Video

 

[need2boostpsi]

Ive had my 2.4 running for over a year. In all ive had it for 6 years. I broke the crank in it 5 years ago. I think the crank had a flaw, and prob other issues+ they cut the crank .

I got lucky, used the same piston rods (they only had 5k on them or so) got a fresh crank and got it back together. I had the crack/clutch/stock 4g63 pulley balanced this time. THIS IS A MUST! The factory 4g63 pulley had to have 3/4 holes drilled on the opposite side of the factory drilled holes to balance it!

Also, I invested in a fluidamper balancer after I got it together, got acl race bearings, and all is good. 26PSI on pump gas with a gt4294 and it rips like no other.


laser beam pulls- Video

using oil squirters?

 

[1fastlaser]

using oil squirters?

No piston squirters.

 

[gixrman]

No piston squirters.

I'm having my 2.4 being built right now and the machine shop insisted on putting the squiters in and B/S's. Stated for a street/ strip motor it was a must plus the harmonic's of the 2.4 are all f'ed up and the motor will not last without them. Also will be using a fluidamper.

 

[dsm-onster]

B-safts have no effect on bearing, wrist pin, or other points of concern in the block at all whatsoever. They merely for your butt. If you have forged pistons, knwo that the manufaturers of forged pistons recommend usign the oil flow elsewhere. Forged pistons do not need nearly as much cooling. I don't know why your machine shop insisted on those two points of your short block build. . . Especially the b-shafts. Bshafts can't stop the crank from jumproping or wabbling. They are only tied to the crank via big fat rubber bands . When the WHOLE MOTOR moves one way, then the bshaft weights move another. It's there to cancel out the 2nd order vibrations (how the whole block vibrates after the crank make rotations), not the crank vibrations that damage parts. . .

 

[DarthBulk]

I have at least 5000 miles on my G4CS with no balance shafts or oil squirters, and everything appears to be doing fine. Even my butt, which gets a massage daily

 

[dsm-onster]

Kiggly runs a stubby.

 

[gixrman]

B-safts have no effect on bearing, wrist pin, or other points of concern in the block at all whatsoever. They merely for your butt. If you have forged pistons, knwo that the manufaturers of forged pistons recommend usign the oil flow elsewhere. Forged pistons do not need nearly as much cooling. I don't know why your machine shop insisted on those two points of your short block build. . . Especially the b-shafts. Bshafts can't stop the crank from jumproping or wabbling. They are only tied to the crank via big fat rubber bands . When the WHOLE MOTOR moves one way, then the bshaft weights move another. It's there to cancel out the 2nd order vibrations (how the whole block vibrates after the crank make rotations), not the crank vibrations that damage parts. . .

Completly understand that, and made that arguement to him. 70% of his business is 4g63's so i'm taking his word it. He could of said "ok" and not done it but insisted that if I wanted a motor that would last I should do it.

 

[1fastlaser]

Completly understand that, and made that arguement to him. 70% of his business is 4g63's so i'm taking his word it. He could of said "ok" and not done it but insisted that if I wanted a motor that would last I should do it.

I already know what place it is, and they told me the same thing...Nothing like having something useless in the motor that could add to taking out the head/valvetrain and pistons. Ask this shop how many cars do they own with both of them, and what kind of numbers they do track/dyno.

Ever see what happens when a balance shaft belt breaks? Well the timing belt usually gets tangled up and jumps off also. I bet they wouldnt warrenty that eather.

Piston squirters are useless in a race motor. And its a race motor, shit will find a way to break.

 

[need2boostpsi]

this stuff is good info, oil squirters have been debated back in forth in my mind, half the time i come up with" they might fail and cause me to loose oil pressure, plus forged pistons and rods wont miss them much" or " I need the squirters for street use, as they not only cool the pistons but keep the skirts and pins lubed too".
I guess ill end up running without them since i dont abuse my motor to much. ie no track use or road racing.

 

[1fastlaser]

this stuff is good info, oil squirters have been debated back in forth in my mind, half the time i come up with" they might fail and cause me to loose oil pressure, plus forged pistons and rods wont miss them much" or " I need the squirters for street use, as they not only cool the pistons but keep the skirts and pins lubed too".
I guess ill end up running without them since i dont abuse my motor to much. ie no track use or road racing.

Yeah I beat the crap out of my car . But the way I see it is, if you dont need it get rid of it. You are just covering your ass in the long run because theres less that will go wrong. Atleast you cant say "damn i killed a motor because my piston squirter failed", or my valve went threw my piston because the balance shaft belt broke.

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!

 

[gixrman]

I already know what place it is, and they told me the same thing...Nothing like having something useless in the motor that could add to taking out the head/valvetrain and pistons. Ask this shop how many cars do they own with both of them, and what kind of numbers they do track/dyno.

Ever see what happens when a balance shaft belt breaks? Well the timing belt usually gets tangled up and jumps off also. I bet they wouldnt warrenty that eather.

Piston squirters are useless in a race motor. And its a race motor, shit will find a way to break.

Yep, they don't and this isn't going to be a all strip motor (mine anyway) so the squirters are going in. And theres reports that stub shafts cause premature oil pump failure so its all a game. So far I don't trust anyone 100% when it come to hipo engine builds but I don't see why he would tell me otherwise.

 

[dsm-onster]

The stub shaft failure was traced to an improper design of the aftermaket stubshaft groove. Or lack thereof to be specific.

You do see why you shouldn't trust that shop. We gave very clear reasons. The balance shafts don't allow anything to last longer. If their motors failed "because of not having a balance shaft assembly", then they don't want to accept what really happened. . . Not good for their clientele.

Squirters don't prolong the life of a motor with forged internals. Race cars get beat on more than street cars. The oil would be there to cool the piston in the event of detonation or excessive heat via planned cylinder pressure. The race motors I come in contact with don't ever break, oil squirting on them or not, unless their cylinder pressure threshold is exceeded. Regardless of miles. Unless you are going to race on the highway AND run at the track, in other words, more racing; I see no point in deviating from the piston manufacturers recommendation for your specific platform. They've had years to know ONLY how the piston works. If you're interested in credentials, there's plenty of good experience at wiseco and ross

And, If you're going to be that frequent with your extreme heat cycles so that you need the cooling for any supposed issues of long term exposure to the heat on the street, you shouldn't be building this car. It should be a track only car. For your sake and others.

I say leave the oil squirters in because it costs a few nickles to remove them. But it's simply not neccesary with a forged motor that uses pistons that can tolerate your goal. That shop's advice so far is extremely suspect. I wouldn't take their word for much after hearing that. I'm sure chinabay get's 70% of the new turbo business too

 

[gixrman]

Well who can you trust? You talk to one vendor and they bash the other, one builder bashes the other. This shop is local so thats why its there. The other local shop almost destroyed my car, so its not going there. The next closest shop is out of business for fraud and a suspicous fire.

This whole motor build has been a major PITA from the beginning and I'm ready to scrap the whole thing.

 

[dsm-onster]

Trust people that have nothing to gain from helping you but the satisfation of helping others do something right. Like us .

Your motor will run if the b-safts are still there and if the oil squirters are still there. But their reasoning for them makes me suspect that they don't know what they are doing. However, if the motor wasn't abusd before it's fairly easy not to screw up a sirius motor rebuild. As long as they don't torque arp 2000 rodbolts to the specs eagle gives you for arp2000 rod bolts with their rod instructions, then you should be fine. For the most part. Line hone the block if you use arp mains. And line hone the big end of some rod brands (I know you don't need to with eagle). Piston to wall clearance is important with any bore job, if it's bored. Follow the ring manufactures gap recommendations. Check crank endplay. Magnaflux the crank BEFORE cutting, if it has to be cut.

But yea, you could have just bought a good 4g64 block and swapped in longer eagle rods and wiseco .060" 4g63 pistons, ask the torque specs for the rodbolts, Bought some l19s, used a composite HG, and be on your way. The longer rod bolts allow for the 4g63 wristpin height that makes 4g63 pistons lighter than 4g64 pistons, and so you would have the same or better safe redline as a stroker vs. the 4g64.

 

[gixrman]

Well heres the build:
2.4 G4CS block
MAGNUS Billet Crank which turned out to be a K1 crank
R&R 156mm Rods which were supposed to be MAGNUS rods
Ross .020 over pistons which are going to have swain tech coating
ACL berrings
Kiggly main girddle
JAM CNC head, cometic head gasket
ARP main and head studs
Fliudampner

Now i have to make a call to argue about the same sht all over again

 

[1fastlaser]

R&R aluminum rods? Sounds like you got your self a race motor there. Im sure some guys will say "why you building such a extreme motor if your not gonna beat it"? But who cares, if you got the money build it so you dont have to worry about it.

I may like to say a suggestion. You can run a felpro permatorque mls headgasket on a 2.4 block. It alittle smaller bore size since its for a 4g63, but not enough to create an issue. Also arps will do, but L19s will be the best way to go.

 

[gixrman]

R&R aluminum rods? Sounds like you got your self a race motor there. Im sure some guys will say "why you building such a extreme motor if your not gonna beat it"? But who cares, if you got the money build it so you dont have to worry about it.

I may like to say a suggestion. You can run a felpro permatorque mls headgasket on a 2.4 block. It alittle smaller bore size since its for a 4g63, but not enough to create an issue. Also arps will do, but L19s will be the best way to go.

They were supposed to be AL rods but I received steel rods instead. When I asked pete about this he stated that the steel rods were better for my aplication and were stronger. I also suggested the Felpro HG but JAM stated that the cometic gasket is special ordered to fit the .020 overbore so I will not have any sealing issues. Trust me I am going to beat on this motor but not like a full blown race motor. My goal is 500hp on pump and 700hp on the spray and race gas.

 

[Savage Talon]

Oil squirter's would be a good thing to help keep the oil pressure down but the balance shafts are pointless on a built motor. I don't have either one and have had my motor for a couple of years now. I had to port the hell out of the oil filter housing to get my oil pressure in check.

 

[need2boostpsi]

well so far my build consist of

G4CS block
8.8:1 Weisco pistons .20 over for the 4G64
Eagle Rods for the 4G63
ACL Race Bearings
Cometic MLS headgasket
Kiggly main griddle
regular ARP head studs

trying to keep it simple for 500whp, my goal with a holset was 450whp but i passed that a long time ago.