2G Kelford 272/272 vs BC 268/272 on a modified 16g

[OrlandoDSM]

So I’ve been reading other threads on how upgrading to kelford’s wouldn’t be beneficial for Evo 3 16g however, I have a turbo in the works with these specs. I’m currently on BC”s 268/272.

In your opinion guys is it worth it to upgrade cams or stay with that I have?

AGT 52mm DSM/Evo3 Turbocharger

DSM/Evo3 AGT 52mm Turbocharger This Turbo's Features: Flow Rate: 55 lbs/min Compressor wheel: 52x68mm Turbine Wheel: 49x55mm Bearing type: Journal bearing with HD thrust bearing Inlet size: OEM Turbine housing: 7cm Single scroll turbine housing Wastegate: Internal 15 psi...

artgennariturbo.com

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[jdxnc]

I would keep your current cams. You'd need to rev out higher than the turbo will be efficient at and loose some bottom end, especially if it's more of a daily. Keep the bottom end response.

 

[trogador2005]

Jason is right! But what do you plan to do with that car? If it's a daily or you don't race it, save the cash on the cams. If you're going to race it, what are your goals? Is this a 2g? Getting an evo3 intake manifold would be a great upgrade and compliment that turbo and money better spent than cams.

 

[OrlandoDSM]

Currently car has evo 3 intake manifold, with fp exhaust manifold. With support mods and e85. Car isn’t really much of a daily. Just looking to make somewhat over 400whp.

 

[trogador2005]

Oh ok sweet. Well you might have a hard time with that turbo, and you're losing spool with that exhaust manifold on a 16g. For what you have and want, I'd get a bitter turbo and some 272s, anything but BC. You're gonna have to run that 16g at the ragged edge. Sure you could do the cams now and hit your HP goal, but you won't like how the poweband is. 68hta or sl2 20g would be the turbo I'd go to for that goal.

 

[OrlandoDSM]

The turbo specs in my post if I’m not mistaken flows more then the regular evo3 16g which is 36lb. This new turbo flows 55lbs of air. It’s a cross between an fp green and 16g

 

[trogador2005]

The specs of that turbo are a bastard 20g. That is a billet 20g compressor wheel with a td05 turbine wheel, which is the same hot side and turbine wheel for the standard evo3 16g. That's where your limitation will be on the top end.

I think there's a little bit of overselling going on from that turbo manufacturer, cause all of the cars I've built and tuned with this same turbo specs couldn't get near 55lb/min. Even with 272cams.

If you tossed in a bigger turbine wheel, you'd be able to hit your goal much easier.

For reference the specs for an fp green are: CW 52.6/73 - TW 54/61

 

[OrlandoDSM]

68hta turbine wheel with a fp green size compressor wheel.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

I’ve been using the BC 268/272’s for several years, many dog them but they’ve worked well for me and the set ups I’ve used them with. On an Evo 3 16g on e85 I seen 420whp and 430wtq turned all the way out and using those cams. In that scenario I’m convinced I could’ve benefited switching to something like HKS 264’s (though finding them would be a long shot), however I’d still go as far as to say they worked well with that set up. On the opposite side of that I seen 454 with a nice curve on an s363 on pump gas utilizing those cams (never got to go back and turn it up on e85) and they still did well, problem I ran into is it was starting to float valves over 7k rpm with the stock springs so I couldn’t see just how well they were working beyond that. Sure in that scenario with proper springs I could have maybe benefited from something like a Kelford 272, but up until valve float was becoming an issue the BC’s were still showing to work well.

In conclusion if you already have the BC’s and they’re working for you I say stick with them as there’s other places to spend money that may be more beneficial right now. Sure they might not be the BEST camshaft out there or the most optimal, but given the experience I’ve had with them I’d say they’re a pretty good match for your set up especially when the Kelfords could be overkill and in your situation end up hurting more than helping over the BC’s.

 

[trogador2005]

68hta turbine wheel with a fp green size compressor wheel.

That's really not correct.

E316g: CW 48 / 67.9mm - TW 56 / 49mm
Bastard 20g: CW 52 / 68mm - TW 56 / 49mm
Td06sl2 20g: CW 52 / 68mm - TW 61 / 54mm
68hta: CW 52 / 68mm - TW 61 / 54mm
FP Green: CW 52.6 / 73mm - TW 61 / 54mm

The only difference between the 68hta and the green is the compressor wheel. What you just said is what a Green is.

The specs of the turbo you posted are the bastard 20g size.

Also the flow rates for the 68hta is 51lb/min and the green is 57lb/min.

Your flow is limited by your compressor wheel. Which is a 20g wheel.

 

[OrlandoDSM]

Going off the info given to me, regardless I feel this should help reach my goals. I’d be happy to post numbers once everything is completed. Only thing left for me to do I guess is build the bottom end in the future. LSD or AWD aswell.

 

[schafer240]

With what you have you should be able to meet your power goals, the kelfords would be an upgrade but if you are already hitting your goals I don't see the point.

Also might want to think about the Fp Green so you have a little more room to grow and then you're not buying parts twice.

 

[jdxnc]

I still stick with my advice above, keep your current cams. I ran HKS 264/272 back when I was on a 20g and the car went an 11.5, mid 120's, flowing around 52lbs/min