Kelford 264 vs HKS 272

[NOSLO2PT0]

I'm looking to build an 11 sec. street car. Nothing serious. I don't even want to spend the money on upgraded valvetrain. I keep hearing these Kelford's are the hottest cam out there, making the most hp. I don't need the most hp, just enough to compliment a bolt-on 60 trim. I know the HKS 272's can be spun to 8k on stock valvetrain. Can the same be said for the Kelford 264's, since they seem to be more aggressive than the HKS 272's?

I'm actually leaning towards the Delta regrinds, but not sure which cam to get yet. This car is being built with 100% budget in mind. So no $600 real cams will be an option. I'm just lookin for a little more insight as I haven't followed the latest trends in parts in a few years.

 

[Rob10_99]

Your timeslip says you have an 11 second car... soo....

 

[jrohner]

Any cams should get you to 11's with a 60-trim turbo; I don't see why the stock ones wouldn't.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

I also made this profile in 2002, which is when I was running 11's.....on pump gas. This is a different car I'm building, but thanks for the input.

 

[snowborder714]

Consider updating your profile then to reflect the new car and not the old one? A lot of us use profile information to base our responses on.

 

[dsm-onster]

The kelford 264s have more duration at .05" than fp2s or hks 272s. . . That is why they perform better againts other cams of the same advertized duration. Common marketing scheme. But they are good cam profiles. Kelford 264s would be plenty for your goal.

And J, the garret t4 60-trim compressor flows SLIGHTLY more than a 50-trim compressor. A bolton 60-trim with maybe a t3 stage 5 (t350 turbine wheel) MAYBE could do this with stock cams. But you're going to need alot of boost. If this is a 60-trim with a properly sized turbine wheel like the t31 wheel with a bolton housing, then cams should definately be an early upgrade in a quest for 11s.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

For the sake of this thread, I'll post the relevent mods pertaining to THIS car, since I'm working on updating the profile.

1994 Talon Tsi AWD
Auto trans
shift kit
4k stall converter

2g/evo maf
bolt-on 60 trim
ebay 4" fmic w/3" piping
2G intake mani
2g head
evo9 rods/pistons
HKS272 or Kelford 264 cams )reason for this post)

Walbro 255
FIC 680's (maybe upgrading to 880s)
E85

Car will either be on DSMLink or AFC. Haven't decided yet.

The kelford 264s have more duration at .05" than fp2s or hks 272s. . . That is why they perform better againts other cams of the same advertized duration. Common marketing scheme. But they are good cam profiles. Kelford 264s would be plenty for your goal.

Guess my biggest question would be "Can I run the Kelford 264's on a stock valvetrain to 8k?"

 

[dsm-onster]

I'd just get the delta regrinds. That's plenty of cam. And less duration is better for auto. Though, you have enough stall, I think .

Well, let me ask first which turbine wheel do you have? Which bolton housing do you have?

 

[this_tsi_8urV8]

Hey Mike, get the Kelfords. If you are worried about the valvetrain, you can upgrade to Evo8 springs/retainers, like I did. I take my Kels 272 to 8k with the Evo springs/retainers.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

I'd just get the delta regrinds. That's plenty of cam. And less duration is better for auto. Though, you have enough stall, I think .

Well, let me ask first which turbine wheel do you have? Which bolton housing do you have?

I'm totally planning on the regrinds. I just have NO idea which ones to get. Kelford 264 (do i need upgraded springs?) or the HKS 272's (which i KNOW i can run on stock valvetrain).

Hey Mike, get the Kelfords. If you are worried about the valvetrain, you can upgrade to Evo8 springs/retainers, like I did. I take my Kels 272 to 8k with the Evo springs/retainers.

I'm trying to avoid upgrading what I don't have to. Hell..I might not even need to take the car up to 8k. Seems every time I tried to swap valvetrain, I jacked up the valve stem seals somehow. But that was using ST Duals. This head I have was recently rebuilt, and I don't wanna pay a machine shop to swap the valvetrain and put in new seals. I CAN swap the springs. That's no problem. I just don't know if I'm messing up the seals on my own or what.

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm totally planning on the regrinds. I just have NO idea which ones to get. Kelford 264 (do i need upgraded springs?) or the HKS 272's (which i KNOW i can run on stock valvetrain).

I confused??? delta doesn't regrind kelford specs. I don't know of ANY place that does. So if you get regrinds, you cant get kelford 264s you stuck with hks272 or hks264 like specs or other less common like crower.

 

[snowborder714]

Matt, in the Delta cam test thread, someone mentioned bringing in a set of Kelford 272's for them to analyze and try to get a copy so they can offer Kelford 272-spec regrinds.

 

[dsm-onster]

That would bring me big s ! I may look at doing a cam upgrade if that works out.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

My impression is that they can do Kelford 272's for $300, but they are more than your avg regrind becaus they are made from new cores, not regrinding your old cams. I just got word that they don't have the tooling to do the Kelford 264's So it looks like I'm grabbing some old HKS 272's. Unless there is something else out there that I'm missing.

Matt,
I forgot to answer the second part of your question regarding my turbine wheel and housing. I honestly don't know. I know NOTHING about the Bullseye bolt-on stuff in the smaller series. I went from an FP Green to a 3065, so anything smaller never interested me. Only reason I'm slapping it on is because I got it free and it's gonna cost me little to get rebuilt. Plus it will make more power than the 16G I got on the car now.

Is the a/r (size) cast on the side of the housing anywhere? I can go grab it and take a look. Might even be able to measure out the turbine wheel. Got a site where I can look up the specs for the wheels that came with these turbos?

 

[Delta Cam]

Correct, a camshaft profile is basically a mathematical equation, therefore it can't be copyrighted. Sometimes a company can design and produce a cam profile for a certain engine that produced large gains in HP and torque, then find out it was copied and sent offshore. Because in the "lift" part of the equation you can have identical specs but somewhere past the decimal point it will vary .... which makes it a different profile.

 

[matthewdesigns]

For the sake of this thread, I'll post the relevent mods pertaining to THIS car, since I'm working on updating the profile.

FIC 680's (maybe upgrading to 880s)
E85

I know this is a cam thread, but you'll definitely need bigger injectors than the 680's to flow enough fuel to run 11's on e85, and the 880's would even be borderline I suspect.

See this thread for a rough guide.

Good luck with the build!

 

[HurleyTSi]

Why not get Crowers for like $350 a set?

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT BC!!!!!!!!! but daddy Crower himself. The good ones. Extreme PSI has them for dirt cheap. If I didnt get such a good deal on my HKS cams I wouldve gotten them.

$700 for cams or $350? You said budget and that (or DKS cams) will be your best bet for a good budget cam.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

I know this is a cam thread, but you'll definitely need bigger injectors than the 680's to flow enough fuel to run 11's on e85, and the 880's would even be borderline I suspect.

I totally understand the needs of E85. I built a mid 10 sec. E85 car back in 07. The plan WAS to have a simple 16G powered car, and the 680's would have been ok. However, with the new plan of the 60 trim going on, I'm obviously going to have to start looking at bigger. I don't wanna go TOO big, in the event that I end up using an AFC, I want to be able to control things somewhat.

Why not get Crowers for like $350 a set?

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT BC!!!!!!!!! but daddy Crower himself. The good ones. Extreme PSI has them for dirt cheap. If I didnt get such a good deal on my HKS cams I wouldve gotten them.

$700 for cams or $350? You said budget and that (or DKS cams) will be your best bet for a good budget cam.

Budget to me is $190 for the regrinds. . If I can get HKS 272 regrinds for $150 less than the Crowers and actually make as much power, why not?

 

[HurleyTSi]

Budget to me is $190 for the regrinds. . If I can get HKS 272 regrinds for $150 less than the Crowers and actually make as much power, why not?

Well you were talking about Kelfords before so I thought you were also talking about real HKS cams when you brought it up.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Well you were talking about Kelfords before so I thought you were also talking about real HKS cams when you brought it up.

Only because Delta Cams was offering a Kelford 272 regrind for $300.

 

[HurleyTSi]

Only because Delta Cams was offering a Kelford 272 regrind for $300.

Just do that.

Kelford > HKS like said before.

If the re-grind is absolutely legit then you're all set. it's cheap enough as it is and the real plus side about Kelfords is they have the most baseline hp gains without degreeing with adjustable cam gears. Which I assume you're not gonna be buying with this budget right?

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Just do that.

Kelford > HKS like said before.

If the re-grind is absolutely legit then you're all set. it's cheap enough as it is and the real plus side about Kelfords is they have the most baseline hp gains without degreeing with adjustable cam gears. Which I assume you're not gonna be buying with this budget right?

Nope. That's why I'm going with the HS 272 regrinds. They don't need to be degreed nor need adj. cam gears. Yes, the Kelfords will make more hp. Enough more that I can justify spending almost $200 more vs the HKS cams? Nah. Not that serious about this car. That's what the other car is for!

 

[HurleyTSi]

Nope. That's why I'm going with the HS 272 regrinds. They don't need to be degreed nor need adj. cam gears. Yes, the Kelfords will make more hp. Enough more that I can justify spending almost $200 more vs the HKS cams? Nah. Not that serious about this car. That's what the other car is for!

never said HKS 'needs' to be degreed. Just saying the whole Kelford > All Others was because the Kelfords made the most base power out of the box without degreeing.

Adj cam gears will wake up any cams really.