Is 400awhp possible without aftermarket internals?

[tsi1991awd]

As the title says....or are cams, rods and pistons a must? Mods include (and will include within the next month) GT Concepts Evo3 GT turbo, 750cc injectors, AFPR, 255HP Walbro, 2g MAF, Supra SMIC, dejon upper/lower piping, Dejon intake, evo 3 exhaust manifold, PR O2 dump, 3" open DP, ECMLink

 

[toofast82]

This is true. Im upgrading and I have to pay for the oil lines, new o2 housing, wastegate. It does get expensive.

There's also the housing expense($2-300) unless you use the holset one. If you go t3, you'd also need a manifold or adapter plate as well. You'll probably need a slim fan too on a 1g, at least I did years ago. This stuff adds up to quite a bit more than the "bolt-on" 16g

 

[dsm-onster]

The turbos may compare in price, but actually having it on the car running costs a little more for the hx35

MHI evo3 16g.

$300 for the hx35. $250 for the housing. $100 (at the most) for oil lines. I rigged up reliable oil lines for about $25. So from $575 to $650.

A little more? maybe. Worth it? . . . It's still a bit less than a td06sl2-18g.

 

[toofast82]

Nope. $300 for the hx35. $250 for the housing. $100 (at the most) for oil lines. I rigged up reliable oil lines for about $25. So from $575 to $650.

I guess if we're talking used, I bought a b16g with a clipped turbine for $125 a month ago and it was on the car 30mins after I got it and didn't cost an extra $.01.
Not bashing the hx35, but it is not as "simple as slapping a 16g" as many have been led to believe.

 

[canada4g63]

bigger turbo, injectors pump, and fmic. and something to tune

 

[keger]

i had a sleeper 16g on my talon and was makin about 400 hp but also on race gas went 11.67 at 119 mph

 

[tsi1991awd]

Whats a good meth kit thats not doing to run me $800 to $1000? I cant justify paying that much and not knowing that I will hit close to 400. And youre right, I dont think anyone knows how much the GT turbo can push out. I havent seen anything on here about people trying. I will let you all know what I put down when the time comes. The turbo came right after a fresh rebuild. I put 6,000 miles on it so far at 15psi with no shaft play or broken blades. Its holding up strong so I can see it pushing at least 25psi.

 

[dsm-onster]

It's not about boost it about volume flow. You can do 25psi on that turbo now but will it hold up with a cam upgrade, and other airflow upgrades, at that same 25psi. The wheels are spinning ALOT faster to maintain the same boost when you upgrade airflow components.




A good meth kit is a shurflo pump, decent hose (poly is best), a solenoid valve, and a hobbs pressure switch.

It's just as effective. If you want a smother turnon to full pressure replace the solenoid valve with a 20-22psi cracking pressure check valve that can handle the pump pressure. The pump will cut on and have to build pressure in the line from the cracking pressure to the final pressure you choose. So this will make the flow ramp up instead of instantly high. The pump pressure is even variable so there's some tunign you can do with this setup. Plus the hobbs switch is variable, so the activation point along the boost curve can be changed.

A quality kit is right here for $200: Click. I used this kit for years on several different platforms.

I guess if we're talking used, I bought a b16g with a clipped turbine for $125 a month ago and it was on the car 30mins after I got it and didn't cost an extra $.01.
Not bashing the hx35, but it is not as "simple as slapping a 16g" as many have been led to believe.

For the spool speed and the topend, 'is it worth the difference?' is the question. I understand what you are saying. Your clipped 16g would have spools later BTW

 

[toofast82]

For the spool speed and the topend, 'is it worth the difference?' is the question. I understand what you are saying. Your clipped 16g would have spools later BTW

In a box, in my garage, I have an HX-40 6/12 ready to kick some ass next year
I'm really just looking to push the 16g this year as it is well within the range of my goals. Im well aware what the clip does, but I have no complaints with spool!
I ran the HX-35 almost 4years ago and never got to run more than 22psi because of internal wastegate issues and the turbo went out after about 3k miles

 

[tsi1991awd]

That becool kit looks great for the price. Whats that valve you were talking about? Where would I get it? And not to sound like a dumbass but is the meth/water on at all times or do you turn it on when "racing" or what? And what type of gain could be expected from it?

 

[99gst_racer]

<---- My dyno numbers were on a stock 7-bolt longblock. Stock cams, intake manifold, head bolts, composite HG, etc... 50-trim at 27 psi and some 110 leaded fuel. Aside from being FWD back them, the car was a riot to drive. I'm pretty sure if I had cams and a SMIM, I would have been able to use pump gas and make the same power, if not a little more.

The 16G is a great turbo, but I'd recommend you step up to a slightly larger turbo. It's going to be much easier to hit your HP goals with something larger, not to mention you probably don't want 400 WHP with something that's going to fall off long before redline.

Also, the Be Cooling kits are a great deal. The owner of the company is a good friend of mine and lives about 20 minutes away. He runs one of his kits on his 2G and ran a 10.0 @ 140 mph last fall on pump gas.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

9:1cr and 25psi on that e316g will be around 400

 

[99gst_racer]

9:1cr and 25psi on that e316g will be around 400

Not on pump gas with a stock intake manifold and cams.

 

[toofast82]

<---- My dyno numbers were on a stock 7-bolt longblock. Stock cams, intake manifold, head bolts, composite HG, etc... 50-trim at 27 psi and some 110 leaded fuel.

Pretty impressive for the amount of boost on stock head bolts! No coolant pushing?


Bottom line to this thread is:
Yes, it is very possible to make 400whp on stock internals and here's a perfect example
The turbo and supporting mods you choose to attempt it, is up to you and another discussion altogether.

 

[99gst_racer]

Pretty impressive for the amount of boost on stock head bolts! No coolant pushing?

Not a drop. I also ran 21* peak timing advance. The car ran freakishly perfect.
I eventually hit 40+ psi by accident (self inflicted wastegate issue) and it hooked all of the rods. Head gasket still held strong.

 

[toofast82]

Not a drop. I also ran 21* peak timing advance. The car ran freakishly perfect.
I eventually hit 40+ psi by accident (self inflicted wastegate issue) and it hooked all of the rods. Head gasket still held strong.

That's why they say "it's all in the tune"

You didn't blame the rods on crankwalk, you chose the 40psi+

 

[99gst_racer]

That's why they say "it's all in the tune"

You didn't blame the rods on crankwalk, you chose the 40psi+

It's definitely all about the tune. First dyno run was 347 WHP. After making changes to the boost level, fuel map, and timing map, we eventually squeezed 403 WHP out of it. And the 347 pull was done on a very good street tune, so it's not like we went there with an untuned car.

 

[JayRolla]

MHI evo3 16g.

$300 for the hx35. $250 for the housing. $100 (at the most) for oil lines. I rigged up reliable oil lines for about $25. So from $575 to $650.

A little more? maybe. Worth it? . . . It's still a bit less than a td06sl2-18g.

You forgot to add the external wastegate and somewhere to mount it if you dont have a place. Its also expensive to go internal with a good actuator which is still expensive and boost control sucks.

 

[dsm-onster]

Boost control sucks with an evo3 16g. You'll have better results with low boost with the mhi actuator from your 14 becuse the bolton housing flapper is 38mm. And with the STOCK holset actuator you can run high boost just fine with that internal gate.

I still recomment the external gate. You don't buy this turbo not to use it properly. But it's still a little rediculous to choose a 42lb/min turbo for a 400whp goal. The OP of course doesn't have this high of a goal.

 

[untouchablecc]

Im not sure why you wouldnt want to upgrade cams its not a hard swap an you can make your goal easier. Shep as others have gone 11s and under without a smim manifold but every bit makes your goal easier. It sounds like you want an all bolt on engine. Now i dunno if your forgetting arp hardware but yes i think you might need that to make 400 and a mls head gasket. This is going to be your daily so do you want a top end freak because once you start going after market intake manifold and big fmic and big turbo your kissing your bottom end further an further away. 400 hp is a very tricky thing to do an keep your bottom end power to rip around town. Without changing engine internals for higher compression and a stroker kit to retain your bottom end your going to be changing your power band a lot. The trick is using a turbo that will keep your goal in perspective without going over kill an having a laggy turbo. 350 whp is not a far goal for a e316g but more then that an your really starting to slow down the reliability of that turbo, not saying it wont last but it has its limits. Hx35 is prob is arguably one of the best street turbos. Spools in the neighborhood of a 16g an you have a much higher shift point, 7500 rpm is not a big deal for that thing.

 

[JayRolla]

Boost control sucks with an evo3 16g. You'll have better results with low boost with the mhi actuator from your 14 becuse the bolton housing flapper is 38mm. And with the STOCK holset actuator you can run high boost just fine with that internal gate.

I still recomment the external gate. You don't buy this turbo not to use it properly. But it's still a little rediculous to choose a 42lb/min turbo for a 400whp goal. The OP of course doesn't have this high of a goal.

Hmm. My 16g with just an MBC at max setting hits 32psi and holds 26psi till 7k rpms. Even on an external the 16g cant hold boost. Almost every hx35 internal gated logs Ive seen drops too about 24-28psi also by redline. Thats why Ive decided on an hx40. Even external gated hx35's drop boost as the rpms rise from logs ive seen.

 

[dsm-onster]

I know, but you also have lower boost creeping issues as is. MY evo3 16g blew open the stock unported flapper/hole at 28psi And bleed down to 23psi. Must be the air up there .

If you can hold the flapper shut on an evo3 16g, you can do it on an internal hx35. Same thing has to be done, same costs involved, same time.

 

[2slow4utsi]

Get some Kelfords and a JM Fab SMIM.

 

[BrokenTsi]

I am sure I am in the 400whp ballpark with my mods which can be seen in my profile. You will not make it with those mods though. Cams are a big help. I will try to find a datalog to see what the hp estimate is for my car at 26psi.

your car is running now? when did that happen?

 

[1992awdlaser]

your car is running now? when did that happen?

Been a while. My friend and I are gonna tow it to NY in the next couple of months. I will PM you my new number.

 

[Hcaruso4]

you can definitely make that power but whether or not it will hold for months is a different story