Initial S-AFC settings for High/Low- 2g

[kmoore]

Hey guys, first off, I have seen the threads and searched, and that is where the majority of my information is coming from. I would just like to get some help on basic start-up settings for my specific application.

I have read the tuning guides that are in the tech section and I have read through Ludachris' thread.

The car has been put away now since late September, for the winter, and while it was down I slapped a few things on it. So, when I first start it up coming March or so, I'd like it to run decent just to get a good starting point and I know every car is different.

Mods:

(New- Since the car has been put away)
EvoIII 16g
FIC 650 injectors
Everything is ported

Other Mods:
190 fuel pump
S-AFC II
Pocketlogger Logger
Dejon FMIC and Intercooler pipes
Dejon Intake
HKS SSQV BOV
RRE 3" downpipe w/ testpipe
Apexi N1 catback

I have read this formula posted by spyderturbo007:
[(S / N) - 1] * 100 = C

Where,

N = New Injector Size
S = Stock Injector Size
C = SAFC Correction Factor

So, in your case the calculation would be:

[(450 / 750) - 1] * 100 = -40%


Which in my case would be -30 across the board. BUT FOR WHICH BOARD?! I'm assuming the high throttle settings? But, does anybody have any advice for the LOW throttle settings? Thanks a lot

 

[drewvr4]

First I would highly suggest a wideband.

Second the way I always tuned a SAFC on Low was to park the car, and free rev the motor to the certain RPM designations you have set. While doing that adjusting your SAFC for the proper A/F ration that you want. Then while driving you can tweak it to get it right where it needs to be for driving.

The formula you are using if for Hi-Throttle.

 

[kmoore]

Yes, I forgot to mention that a wideband will be in the very near future. I apologize.

Can you elaborate more on how you tune the low throttle settings?

 

[91 Turbo Mitsu]

RRE has a guide to help with setup on the safc. Check the website

 

[kmoore]

RRE has a guide to help with setup on the safc. Check the website

I've read it. I am looking for some help on my specific setup.

 

[steve]

You always start out with the low throttle settings. Did you read Kyle Terry's tuning guide.

You do the low first to set the base corrections, the ones used in closed loop.
Once you have them set so that the fuel trims are as close to 100% as you can get them you copy them to the high settings and proceed to do WOT tuning for when the ECU is out of closed loop.

The wide band help for both but you can do the low throttle setting without one. your just adjusting the corrections to match the O2 narrowband sensor feedback for 14.7:1 AFR.

 

[kmoore]

What do you mean by close to 100%? So what your saying is whatever our low settings are we just just copy them exactly how they are for the high settings? I am extremely new at this.

 

[matthewdesigns]

What do you mean by close to 100%?

For your 2g, you want the trims to be as close to "0" as possible, meaning the ecu is not pulling or adding fuel to keep your a/f ratio stoich. I've never gotten mine to be better than +5 ST and +12 LT, so good luck with that. On a 2g, if the trim is "+12", then that means the ecu is adding fuel to keep up with demand, so you need to add fuel with your afc to get the ecu to stop adding it. If the trim is negative, then remove fuel with the afc.

So what your saying is whatever our low settings are we just just copy them exactly how they are for the high settings? I am extremely new at this.

Yes, mostly. Start with those settings, hook up a logger, and start doing 3rd gear WOT pulls. You'll know by seeing pulled timing (lean knock most likely), and monitoring your WB reading when you get it installed, where you need to add fuel. But I'd start by adding fuel before you do any pulls. Start at around 3K, in a pretty steep curve to about 6K, then mostly leveling off, given you are on an Evo3. That way, you won't run out of fuel and blow up as you are trying to get this worked out. Tweak the settings in 1% increments until you get no knock/timing pulled. And make sure you are WOT when you are doing this, so log the TPS a couple of times to make sure its operating correctly.

I tune only with a logger and my SAFC1. I have 550's on a similar setup at 21psi, and have my lows set around -21 across the board. My highs start at the same place, but as boost starts to build, I add fuel. By redline, my adjustments have risen to -1 to 0. I've pretty much got the fuel system maxed out at that boost level, so your adjustments with 650's may not get as high as mine (they may plateau at -6, for example).

 

[kmoore]

For your 2g, you want the trims to be as close to "0" as possible, meaning the ecu is not pulling or adding fuel to keep your a/f ratio stoich. I've never gotten mine to be better than +5 ST and +12 LT, so good luck with that. On a 2g, if the trim is "+12", then that means the ecu is adding fuel to keep up with demand, so you need to add fuel with your afc to get the ecu to stop adding it. If the trim is negative, then remove fuel with the afc.



Yes, mostly. Start with those settings, hook up a logger, and start doing 3rd gear WOT pulls. You'll know by seeing pulled timing (lean knock most likely), and monitoring your WB reading when you get it installed, where you need to add fuel. But I'd start by adding fuel before you do any pulls. Start at around 3K, in a pretty steep curve to about 6K, then mostly leveling off, given you are on an Evo3. That way, you won't run out of fuel and blow up as you are trying to get this worked out. Tweak the settings in 1% increments until you get no knock/timing pulled. And make sure you are WOT when you are doing this, so log the TPS a couple of times to make sure its operating correctly.

I tune only with a logger and my SAFC1. I have 550's on a similar setup at 21psi, and have my lows set around -21 across the board. My highs start at the same place, but as boost starts to build, I add fuel. By redline, my adjustments have risen to -1 to 0. I've pretty much got the fuel system maxed out at that boost level, so your adjustments with 650's may not get as high as mine (they may plateau at -6, for example).

Good information. Thank you. What I don't understand though is where (on the S-AFC or the logger) do I see if I am at 0 or not? And where can I see what my "trim" is? ST and LT= short trim/long trim correct?

So say I'm at lets say -30 on one RPM setting. If I wanted to ADD fuel (say 2) I would go to -28 correct? Or would I go to -32? Thanks again. Your helping me out a ton.

 

[matthewdesigns]

Correct on the abbreviations. Fuel trims are viewable on a logger. I use PalmNStein and can log ST and LT trims. From the startup screen, I can choose what parameters are to be logged. For logging in general, I try to log the fewest number of parameters possible, so that I get as many points as possible for each parameter. That's why I suggested only doing a couple of pulls logging the TPS. When I do a logged pull, I only log rpms, airflow, and timing. This gives me everything I need to know, once I've checked that all other things are operating normally/within normal values. (Don't know if you've got much time with a logger, so I threw that in just in case.)

And your assumption about adding/subtracting fuel is correct. "0" is no correction at all on the afc, so if you are at -30% you are adding 2% to get to -28%.

Another thing I'll add is that the o2 sensor input wire on the afc should not be used, as it will degrade (some say) the signal from the sensor, thereby creating issues with the ecu reading the sensor properly.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Good information. Thank you. What I don't understand though is where (on the S-AFC or the logger) do I see if I am at 0 or not? And where can I see what my "trim" is? ST and LT= short trim/long trim correct?

So say I'm at lets say -30 on one RPM setting. If I wanted to ADD fuel (say 2) I would go to -28 correct? Or would I go to -32? Thanks again. Your helping me out a ton.

Let me see if I can clairify some of this for you. Steve is correct, as always. You want to address the lo throttle settings first while sitting in your driveway. Set your logger up to display rpm, Short Term Fuel Trim (STFT) and Long Term Fuel Trim (LTFT). Then set all your Ne Points on the SAFC, along with the arrow pointing North East, TPS trigger points at 30% and 80%, along with the sensor type set to Karmen.

Keep in mind that the vehicle needs to be up to operating temperature for the ECU to adjust the fuel trims. The problem becomes that starting the car with the 650's installed and no compensation, is going to lead to a rough running car. The easiest way to combat this problem, is to adjust the lowest Ne point on the low throttle map to something like -15%. Let the car warm up at idle and you can proceed from there.

After doing all that, rev the car to the first Ne Point, watching the rpm reading on either the logger, or the SAFC. Don't use the tach since it's probably off.....Well, at least mine is. You'll want to keep an eye on the FT's on the logger and begin making adjustments. 2g's respond very quickly compared to the 1g's. If you see positive fuel trims, that means the ECU is "seeing" a lean condition and is adding fuel to compensate. In this case, you'll want to add airflow with the SAFC by adjusting the correction more positive. On the other hand, if the FT's are negative, you'll want to decrease the ECU's perceived airflow by moving the correction in the negative direction. Remember, you're actually only removing fuel indirectly, by molesting the airflow frequency before it hits the ECU.

After getting the FT's as close to zero as possible at the first Ne Point, move on to the next and repeat the same process. Keep in mind, that the FT's will cancel each other out, so they both don't have to be zero. If you have a STFT of -5% and a LTFT of +5%, sooner or later, both will be zero. Continue doing this at each subsequent Ne point until you finish with the 4k point. Then, take the correction factor at the 4k point and copy that across all the other points on the Lo throttle map. For example, if 4k = -18%, then make 5k, 6k, 7k, etc all -18%.

No you can move on to the High throttle map. There are two schools of thought on this, so you can choose whatever you are comfortable with. Some people say you should baseline your high throttle map to whatever values you have on the lo throttle map. Personally, I choose to go a different direction. For the Spyder, my lo throttle map wasn't even close to being "mathematically correct". My settings were something between -8% and -12%, which is going to make for a really messed up high throttle map. I recommend that you start with something about 5 - 8% richer than the mathematical correction for your size injector.

For example, if your correction is -31%, I would start about -24%. Both approaches will work just fine, so it's up to you to choose.

 

[matthewdesigns]

^^^ This guy knows his stuff. I've learned a lot from his posts, but apparently not enough. And with that said, disregard what I said regarding how the afc changes trims. I told you the opposite.

*I'll shut up now*

 

[kmoore]

Then, take the correction factor at the 4k point and copy that across all the other points on the Lo throttle map. For example, if 4k = -18%, then make 5k, 6k, 7k, etc all -18%.

First off, spyder I have read the majority of your posts in this tuning section, and you have been a huge help for me already. Thanks a lot for this information.

Real quick though, when you say correction factor, what IS the correction factor? Is there a formula? Does it tell me on the AFC?

And my only concern with my car is that it has been sitting for a while and I took out the battery. Should I wait to adjust these settings until the ECU gets back to normal? Or can I even do that?

 

[spyderturbo007]

First off, spyder I have read the majority of your posts in this tuning section, and you have been a huge help for me already. Thanks a lot for this information.

Thanks, I think I'm blushing. Now if I could learn as much about DSMLink, I could tune my own car.

Real quick though, when you say correction factor, what IS the correction factor? Is there a formula? Does it tell me on the AFC?

You actually choose the correction factor on the SAFC. For example, if you look at the hi throttle map on the SAFC, you will see the correction factor at each Ne point....such as -25%. Then by spinning the dial, you can adjust the factor up or down, as needed.

And my only concern with my car is that it has been sitting for a while and I took out the battery. Should I wait to adjust these settings until the ECU gets back to normal? Or can I even do that?

Nope, it will be fine. A lot of people recommend resetting the ECU before you start working with the lo throttle map anyway, just to bring the trims back to zero. Personally, I don't see any reason to do this on a 2g, only because the trims move so quickly. On a 1g, it takes much longer for the trims to move, so resetting them will save you some time.


EDIT -> I almost forgot, if and when you get your WBO2, let me know and I'll tell you how you can datalog that value along with everything else.

 

[steve]

I see you are in good hands. Pay close attention, ask good questions and you'll learn a lot.

 

[srtkiller]

Would this also apply to a AFC NEO? Also I bought some injectors that the guy said were 550's but my correction perctage is in the range of about -35% and goes up to about -25% in higher rpms. The car was tuned with a wbo2 and the ratios look to be pretty good. What size injector could these possibly be?

 

[spyderturbo007]

Would this also apply to a AFC NEO? Also I bought some injectors that the guy said were 550's but my correction perctage is in the range of about -35% and goes up to about -25% in higher rpms. The car was tuned with a wbo2 and the ratios look to be pretty good. What size injector could these possibly be?

You might want to start your own thread, so we aren't hijacking Kyle's.

The Neo is the same, only you get more Ne Points and the menu is layed out differently. I think it also has provisions built in for VTEC or something like that.

As for injector size, they don't sound like 550's. Standard correction for 550's is ~18% to hit the factory AFR of 9.5:1. Shooting for an 11:1 tune, should put you more negative, but not in the 30's. Do you have the dyno sheet with the AFR trace, or did you tune it yourself? My 650's ran in the 30's, but did dip into the high 20's around the point where the motor reaches highest VE.

The only way to know for sure is to pull the injectors. There is a nice write-up on how to swap injectors here if you decide to go that route.

 

[kmoore]

You actually choose the correction factor on the SAFC. For example, if you look at the hi throttle map on the SAFC, you will see the correction factor at each Ne point....such as -25%. Then by spinning the dial, you can adjust the factor up or down, as needed.

WOW. I feal stupid. Thanks a lot. I guess its one of those things that I just got to get in there and do it. I haven't really played with the S-AFC at all. All I did was 0 it out from a previous settings by the previous owner of the S-AFCII. I have messed around a little bit with my logger. Infact I have done a few logs.

So, just to recap. The first thing I should do is set the lowest NE point to -15. How did you come up with this number? Just curious?

Then I should rev up to each NE point and try to get to 0.

Is all this correct? I hope it gets easier when I actually start to mess with it.

 

[kmoore]

One more quick question. And I know that I'm kind of straying off the path a little bit. But when tuning and looking at the timing curve. When boost hits, whats the lowest degree that I should see? (Only when boost starts) And what should my peak timing degree be? (At the end of the log- say 7000 rpm)If that makes any sense.

 

[spyderturbo007]

WOW. I feal stupid. Thanks a lot.

Don't feel stupid, no one knows these things when they start.

I guess its one of those things that I just got to get in there and do it. I haven't really played with the S-AFC at all. All I did was 0 it out from a previous settings by the previous owner of the S-AFCII. I have messed around a little bit with my logger. Infact I have done a few logs.

Absolutely. The best way is to start getting your hands dirty. Just make sure you are careful about your adjustments and think things through before you start making changes. We don't want to see another thread entitled "I melted my motor".

So, just to recap. The first thing I should do is set the lowest NE point to -15. How did you come up with this number? Just curious?

Truthfully, I just pulled it out of my *censored*. Actually, you just need to get the car running properly while it warms up. Leaving the correction at zero when idling will cause your car to run like crap from loading up with a ton of fuel. I just picked an arbitrary number to get the car running right while you are waiting for it to warm up. You might have to adjust things "on the fly" after starting it up. If it's still rough, just pull out fuel a percent at a time until things feel normal. I know that's not the most scientific approach, but without the ECU cycling the FT's, you are going to have to do things by feel until it warms up.

Although mathematical correction works at WOT, I've never seen a 2g that obeys theory at idle. Most people end up around -15% or so at idle, that's why I choose that number. FT's are affected by a ton of variables, so your's will be different.

Then I should rev up to each NE point and try to get to 0.

Yep.

I hope it gets easier when I actually start to mess with it.

It will. It's one of those things that sound complicated, but once you get in there, you'll figure things out really quickly.

When boost hits, whats the lowest degree that I should see? (Only when boost starts) And what should my peak timing degree be? (At the end of the log- say 7000 rpm)If that makes any sense.

This is where things start to get a little more complicated and leave things open to intpretation. I'll touch on it now, but I won't get too detailed until you start making some WOT pulls. It's going to be really hard to explain without looking at your data.

At WOT the ECU uses things like barometric pressure, airflow, IAT, coolant temp, etc to calculate proper fuel delivery, target AFR and target timing. The problem is that tuning with the SAFC alters the ECU's perception of airflow.....Remember, SAFC stands for Super Airflow Converter, so it only indirectly alters fuel delivery.

When you start making WOT pulls, we can need to look at airflow, coolant temp, and IAT to determine what timing advance the ECU is shooting for. Then we can determine if you are knocking. Without data, I can't tell you what timing you should be getting.

It will all make sense after we get some logs.

Here is a write-up I did in response to a PM:

I got a PM from Chas (NOFX0617) asking for some information about tuning. I ended up writing a long reply and thought I would post it here incase anyone wanted to take a look at it.


Alright, let me see what I can type up here for you before my fingers start to hurt.

The ECU basically has 3 operating modes, closed loop, open loop and limp mode. Limp mode is reserved for potentially damaging proplems the ECU may encounter. The main problem of which, is a nonfunctional MAS. Without feedback from the MAS the ECU has no idea the mass of air passing to the motor. At this point it enters limp mode and runs extremely rich to protect against what could be disaster. This allows you to get your car to the shop or home so it can be repaired immediately.

Closed loop is where you spend most of your time. It is a loop that involves the O2 sensor and the ECU. As the ECU receives a voltage from the O2 sensor it determines if the previous combustion cycle was rich or lean. It then uses the Short Term Fuel Trim (STFT) and Long Term Fuel Trim (LTFT) to adjust the fuel delivery for the next combustion cycle. The ECU is shooting for an AFR of 14.7:1 which is the stoichometric point where all of the fuel is exhausted during the combustion cycle. This allows for maximum use of the fuel injected and gives you the maximum mpg possible. An AFR of 14.7:1 corresponds to an O2 voltage of 0.50v.

If it determines that the previous combustion cycle was lean, i.e O2 voltage <0.50v and AFR >14.7:1, it increases the STFT which corresponds to an increase in IPW (Injector Pulse Width) in an attempt to bring the O2 voltage back to 0.50v. If the previous combustion cycle was rich, i.e O2 voltage >0.50v and AFR <14.7:1, it decreases the STFT which corresponds to a decrease in the the IPW.

STFT is the ECU's display of what is happening right now, whereas, LTFT is pretty much a running average. If the ECU sees a consistent rich or lean condition, it will transfer the STFT value to the LTFT and return the STFT to zero. When running a SAFC, you need to adjust the airflow so the STFT and LTFT add up to zero. For example, if the STFT is +5% and the LTFT is -5%, sooner or later they will cancel each other out and both the LTFT & STFT will be 0.

The other "mode" the ECU operates in is called open loop, this is normally considered WOT. In this "mode" the ECU uses things like barometric pressure, Intake Air Temperature (IAT), coolant temperature, etc. to calculate the mass of air entering the combustion chamber. Based on this air mass calculation, the ECU attempts to inject an appropriate amount of fuel to reach the desired AFR. On a 2g, the factory programmed maps are designed to hit an AFR of 9.5:1. This is rich compared to the closed loop stoichometric value of 14.7:1, but the increase in fuel delivery is used to prevent knock by using the extra fuel to cool the intake charge. When running at WOT, the ECU uses feedback from the knock sensor to monitor engine operation and protect the motor. Keep in mind, that the O2 sensor feedback is completly disregarded during open loop operation.

See, the ECU has what can basically described as 3-dimensional maps for fuel delivery and timing values based on the mass of air being delivered, rpm, etc. For example, at an air mass of 2.1 g/rev the timing is capped by the ECU at 16 degrees of advance. So, if everything is perfect, and within the predefined specs, you will see 16 degrees of timing when running over 2.1g/rev. This isn't always the case. Based on feedback from the other sensors listed above, the ECU will modify the timing value from their preset target. For example, if the IAT is >84 degrees, you will loose 1 degree of timing. So now, at 2.1g/rev, you will only see a maximum advance of 15 degrees.

Timing values are also heavily influenced by feedback from the knock sensor. The ECU uses a linear relationship to pull timing based on the knock count. So the more knock the ECU "hears", the lower your timing value will be. This is how we can use a log to determine knock on a 2g. The 1g guys have it easy, because knock values are output to the OBD port. On a 2g, the ECU does not transmit this value to the OBD-II port. This forces us to "estimate" knock based on the timing curve. For example, you make a WOT pull and you see a steady timing increase from 3k up till you hit 5k. At this point the timing begins to drop, from let's say 15 degrees, down to 13 degrees. Most likely this is caused by knock, but it could also be caused by your coolant temp going over 210 degrees and the IAT going above 84 degrees simultaneously, each of which will cost you 1 degree of advance. What you do in that case, is make another pull and log coolant temp and IAT. If you don't see these values exceeding the limit imposed by the ECU, then you know the problem is caused by knock. At this point, we need to determine what is causing the knock.

Normally with the SAFC, this involves adding fuel in the affected rpm range. But you have to be careful, because there is also rich knock. So, you make the appropriate adjustments on the SAFC and make another pull. If the knock goes away, great! If not, we need to keep making adjustments.

Using the SAFC is like ice skating uphill. As you use the SAFC to molest the mass of air the ECU "sees", the ECU increases timing. Remember, the lower the mass of air seen by the ECU, the higher the ECU will allow the timing to increase. This causes a problem, because we really aren't running a lower value of air, we are just telling the ECU that we are. So as you increase the size of your injectors, you need to remove more and more fuel. See, when you add larger injectors, the ECU doesn't know, and frankly, doesn't care. It treats them as stock and continues to use the programmed IPW. But since the injectors are larger than stock, the same IPW results in additional fuel that the ECU interprets as a rich condition. Seeing a rich condition, it decreases the STFT and LTFT until it runs out of adjustment range. I believe this occurs at -12%. When it hits it's adjustment limit, you get the good old P0170 CEL, Fuel Trim Malfunction (Bank 1).

This is where the SAFC comes in.....By lowering the airflow value before it reaches the ECU, we can manipulate the IPW. Now that the ECU sees less air, it drops the IPW and basically compensates for the larger injectors. This is also what causes problems at WOT. You want larger injectors to support additional flow generated by a turbo upgrade, right? So now we have a turbo that flows significantly more that stock and larger injectors to support the additional flow. So what do we do??? Add a SAFC and manipulate the airflow to the ECU. This works, but causes a big problem. The ECU is now seeing significantly less air than is actually being "ingested" and allows for additional timing over the 2.1g/rev cap of 16 degrees. High timing + high airflow = knock.

This is the problem with running the SAFC, over something like DSMLink. It is "doable" but is definately not the best way to approach the situation. I am running 650cc injectors and a SAFC and have a pretty good tune, so it can be done.

My fingers hurt now, so I'm going to stop typing ....If you want some additional information, let me know, but that should give you something to chew on for now.

Next section:

Ok, I'm going to add to my initial post because I'm bored at work today. No samples to run on the XRF. Let's talk a little more about the SAFC's manipulation of airflow since the question of g/rev was brought up.

The Karmen sensor inside the MAS sends a frequency to the ECU based on the mass of air flowing into the system. The sensor contains a vortex generator that creates small swirling within the intake stream. When properly detected, the frequency of the vortices are proportional to the mass of air passing through the sensor. As the vortices are created, they are directed to a sensor within the MAS and begin to vibrate a piece of reflective, metallic foil. As the metallic foil vibrates, it causes light to be reflected to, or away from a photoelectric sensor. This creates a square voltage wave within the sensor that is transmitted to the ECU. The faster the airflow through the intake, the faster the foil vibrates, the higher the frequency value passed to the ECU.

Wow, that was fun, wasn't it.....This is what I get for paying attention durning physics class. Alright, so what do we do with this frequency once it gets to the ECU?? Well, why don't we screw around with it and see what happens. Remember that SAFC stands for Super Airflow Convertor and only alters fuel delivery indirectly. So, as you drop the airflow signal with the SAFC, the frequency is manipulated to a percentage lower than what we started with. An opposite effect is produced when you add airflow with the SAFC. As I decribed in my initial post, this leads to a increase or decrease in the fuel delivered by the ECU. We use this ablility to manipulate the airflow signal to compensate for larger injectors or lean out the AFR from the factory 9.5:1.

So now that the SAFC has minipulated the airflow frequency and the ECU has used that information, it gets output to the OBD-II port. One thing everyone forgets, is that the airflow shown on your logger, isn't the actual airflow value. You are getting this airflow value after it has been molested by the SAFC. So, if you want to find the actual airflow, we need to convert using the highest airflow value output to the logger, the rpm at which that airflow value occurs and the corresponding SAFC Hi Throttle correction factor.

Here is the calculation:

Airflow (Value from logger) / ( 1 - SAFC Correction Factor in decimal form corresponding to peak airflow rpm) = Actual airflow

So, for example, let's say your logger shows 26lbs/min of airflow at 6200rpm. You check your Hi Throttle table and see that you have a -21% correction factor at 6200rpm. So, the calculation becomes:

26 lbs/min / (1 - 0.21) = 32.91 lbs/min

What do we do with that number you might ask? I use it whenever I am increasing boost and also to determine what boost I should be running. Why boost more when you aren't getting a higher flow. Higher boost increases the temperature of the intake charge and leads to an increased chance of knock. So why push 20 psi when you can create the same flow at 17psi.

You can also use this to evaluate the effectiveness of an upgrade. Back when I installed my UICP, I made a baseline log after the installation at 17psi and was flowing 30.26 lbs/min. Prior to the upgrade, boosting 17psi I would see a peak airflow of 28.50 lbs/min. I cranked up the boost to 19psi and saw an increase to 32.15 lbs/min. Before installing the UICP, I was seeing a minimal airflow increase when upping the boost, so it would have been self defeating to increase the boost and not get a proportional increase in flow.

So, let's say that we want to determine if we have been placed on the ECU's highest timing map. If so, we can definitively see if we are knocking, which is always a hard thing to determine on a 2g.

We need to convert the airflow value from lbs/min to g/rev, but which airflow value do we use. We need to use the airflow displayed on the logger, not the value after the calculation.

To convert to g/rev you need to use this equation:

(A * 453.59) / R = Airflow in g/rev

Where:

A = maximum airflow displayed on the logger
R = rpm value of A

Cheers I'm going for a smoke break.

 

[kmoore]

WOW. Thanks again Nathan. I appreciate it. I will let you know how everything goes when I first start it up. And I'm sure I'll have more questions when that time comes. Thanks man.

 

[kmoore]

Alright guys, well I started the car today and tried to get it to idle correctly. I primed the turbo and fired her up. Since I drained the oil before the turbo install, I only filled it up about 3 quarts full. So I started it, maybe let it run for 30 seconds and turned it off, to check/fill up with some more oil. During those 30 seconds, the idle was way off (sounded like I had some lumpy cams) so I tried to turn the 1st NE point (1000 rpm in the STFT) down in negative incriments and the idle sounded like it was getting better.

I was a little nervous though because of the short oil level, that I turned the car off. What I noticed though, is that the STFT on the logger did not move from 0%. Is this because the car was not normal operating temperature?

After shutting the car off I check the oil level and it seemed that the oil level was lower than when I first checked it?WTF Now I thought, that it was a little weird, and I also noticed that it looked like there was oil seeping out of my EGT probe. I un-screwed my egt probe and it looks like there was oil inside of the manifold. There wasn't a TON of oil, it was just a THIN layer of oil. What could have caused this?!

So what I would like to know is do I need to wait for my car to get to full operating temperature before I adjust the 1000 rpm STFT setting? I thought I could do that without it being at full temp.?

And also, I started the car and let it run for 30 seconds. Is that enough, that I DON'T need to prime the turbo again or should I prime it again before starting it up again tomorrow?

I have been through 4 quarts of oil and I am only half way in between the two notches in the dip stick. The parts stores (Advanced, Zone, O'reilys, etc.) are all closed. Is it alright if I let the car sit over night and then put some more oil in it tomorrow morning? Oh yeah, there are NO oil leaks what-so-ever. Probably should have added that.

 

[2gGSX]

Alright guys, well I started the car today and tried to get it to idle correctly. I primed the turbo and fired her up. Since I drained the oil before the turbo install, I only filled it up about 3 quarts full. So I started it, maybe let it run for 30 seconds and turned it off, to check/fill up with some more oil. During those 30 seconds, the idle was way off (sounded like I had some lumpy cams) so I tried to turn the 1st NE point (1000 rpm in the STFT) down in negative incriments and the idle sounded like it was getting better.

I was a little nervous though because of the short oil level, that I turned the car off. What I noticed though, is that the STFT on the logger did not move from 0%. Is this because the car was not normal operating temperature?

STFT will not move until the O2 sensor is warmed up, which takes roughly a minute on my car based on my logs.

After shutting the car off I check the oil level and it seemed that the oil level was lower than when I first checked it?WTF Now I thought, that it was a little weird, and I also noticed that it looked like there was oil seeping out of my EGT probe. I un-screwed my egt probe and it looks like there was oil inside of the manifold. There wasn't a TON of oil, it was just a THIN layer of oil. What could have caused this?!

There is an oil passage behind one of the manifold studs. Did you possibly damage any of the studs while doing this work?

So what I would like to know is do I need to wait for my car to get to full operating temperature before I adjust the 1000 rpm STFT setting? I thought I could do that without it being at full temp.?

The way STFT/LTFT work is that when the car is in learn mode (coolant temp must be above or equal to 180 degrees F, intake temp must be below 133 degrees F, and baro pressure as read by the MAS must be between 22.9 inHg and 31.6 inHg), STFT will slowly adjust LTFT Lo or Mid depending on raw MAF reading (~50 for LTFT Lo, 150-400 for LTFT Mid).

For example--if you just got done driving and are parked in your garage. Your STFT is at -10% and your LTFT Lo is at 5%. Given time, they would equilibrate where STFT hovers around zero, and LTFT Lo has changed to something like -5%.

I'm not sure if you tune the actual STFT itself with SAFCs, but in my experience it's just been a value that works with LTFTs, which is what you actually want to change. Nathan will probably have a better answer for this.

And also, I started the car and let it run for 30 seconds. Is that enough, that I DON'T need to prime the turbo again or should I prime it again before starting it up again tomorrow?

Unfortunately, that's not how you prime a turbo before the first start. You also can't prime it again, so don't worry about it. To prime it, you're supposed to pull the coil pack connector and the "Engine" fuse, then crank the engine for a few reps of ~5-10 seconds. This gets oil into the CHRA before you start the engine for the first time, so the CHRA doesn't have to be oil-less for a while when you first start the engine.

I have been through 4 quarts of oil and I am only half way in between the two notches in the dip stick. The parts stores (Advanced, Zone, O'reilys, etc.) are all closed. Is it alright if I let the car sit over night and then put some more oil in it tomorrow morning? Oh yeah, there are NO oil leaks what-so-ever. Probably should have added that.

Answers in bold above.

 

[kmoore]

Unfortunately, that's not how you prime a turbo before the first start. You also can't prime it again, so don't worry about it. To prime it, you're supposed to pull the coil pack connector and the "Engine" fuse, then crank the engine for a few reps of ~5-10 seconds. This gets oil into the CHRA before you start the engine for the first time, so the CHRA doesn't have to be oil-less for a while when you first start the engine.

. I'm sorry, I must not have made myself clear enough. Yes, I did prime the turbo. (Pulled the 20amp fuse marked Motuer and cranked it over 4X for 10 seconds each.) What I'm asking though, is because I only let the car run for 30 seconds, I don't need to prime the turbo again, do I?

The way STFT/LTFT work is that when the car is in learn mode (coolant temp must be above or equal to 180 degrees F, intake temp must be below 133 degrees F, and baro pressure as read by the MAS must be between 22.9 inHg and 31.6 inHg), STFT will slowly adjust LTFT Lo or Mid depending on raw MAF reading (~50 for LTFT Lo, 150-400 for LTFT Mid).

For example--if you just got done driving and are parked in your garage. Your STFT is at -10% and your LTFT Lo is at 5%. Given time, they would equilibrate where STFT hovers around zero, and LTFT Lo has changed to something like -5%.

I'm not sure if you tune the actual STFT itself with SAFCs, but in my experience it's just been a value that works with LTFTs, which is what you actually want to change. Nathan will probably have a better answer for this.

See, I think that you answered my question by saying the the STFT won't change (% wise on my logger) until the car is at normal temperature. And since I only let the car run for 30 seconds, it obviously didn't get up to normal operating temperature. So there for, I couldn't make any changes.

There is an oil passage behind one of the manifold studs. Did you possibly damage any of the studs while doing this work?

And what stud might this be?

STFT will not move until the O2 sensor is warmed up, which takes roughly a minute on my car based on my logs.

One more quick question about this. And it is probably a stupid question but how do I know exactly when my car is up to operating temp? When ever the LTFT % starts to change? Or when the needle in the gauge cluster, for temp, settles in the middle?

Thanks, I really appreciate it.

 

[2gGSX]

. I'm sorry, I must not have made myself clear enough. Yes, I did prime the turbo. (Pulled the 20amp fuse marked Motuer and cranked it over 4X for 10 seconds each.) What I'm asking though, is because I only let the car run for 30 seconds, I don't need to prime the turbo again, do I?

Nope.

And what stud might this be?

It's one of the exhaust manifold studs but I can't remember which one it is exactly. If this were the issue it would be pretty apparent though--oil all over the base of one of the studs. This is a slim possibility though IMO, so don't freak out over it since I'm most likely wrong.

Are you sure that it was oil even? The oil level will rise once your engine is at operating temperature. If you did have a profuse amount of oil going into your exhaust manifold, you'll get tons of black smoke out the exhaust. It's unlikely that you actually damaged anything.

One more quick question about this. And it is probably a stupid question but how do I know exactly when my car is up to operating temp? When ever the LTFT % starts to change? Or when the needle in the gauge cluster, for temp, settles in the middle?

The front O2 sensor will start cycling when it heats up (in closed loop, not open loop). You could just log coolant temp to find out when you're above the threshold for learn mode. I don't actually know what position on the stock gauge that corresponds to.