I need ideas. What is the best choice?

[Lashes09]

I really want to add some speed now that I've got the looks. (I know I should have done this first, but its too late now) The only problem is, I dont really know what I want to do.. I have a basically stock (engine wise) 95 Eclipse rs with intake and exhaust (big time, right?).. So you can see why I want to do something to it.

I've been told before to rebuild the engine I have now and just beef it up (If you think that is what I should do what are your recommendations on what all parts and stuff like that) maybe turbo?

I've considered swapping a 4g63 into it (maybe just finding a gst that is parting out and take everything out of it). But i've heard it takes a TON of work.. any ideas or specifics on what all I would have to do to swap this?

And today I just came across the idea of swapping an srt-4 engine into it but I've never heard much about it so I have no idea how much work that would be or how much that would cost.

And of couse I'm still open to any other suggestions.

I hope to hear some ideas

 

[BoostedBeaver]

This could go so many ways at this point. Turbo would be a good choice (4g63) but these other ideas are not apealing to me at all. If you stay N/T here is a link for basic upgrades Tech Guide - DSMtuners This will help you pave the way for that car you are looking for. If you decide to go turbo a LOT will be involved so make sure that if you do it, you do your research. Hope this helps and Good luck.

 

[project sleeper]

nice dude i like the srt-4 idea i have thought the samething my self just watch out for that hood clearence that the neons have sa far as the 4g63 goes your motor mounts r backwards so unless you r a good welder and fabricator i would stay away from that

 

[project sleeper]

nice dude i like the srt-4 idea i have thought the samething my self just watch out for that hood clearence that the neons have sa far as the 4g63 goes your motor mounts r backwards so unless you r a good welder and fabricator i would stay away from that

 

[Lashes09]

well when i heard the srt-4 idea i thought it would be pretty good because its the same engine isnt it? and i've heard the whole 1g and fbody thing before.. but i like to look good too, and i just love the looks of the 2g's

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

If your not considering selling your car then the best bet is to turbo what you have. A 4g63 swap is too much work with not a BIG outcome, and about the only good thing about swapping a srt-4 is that its .4l bigger and it has a stronger bottom end. For the trouble of swapping a srt-4 into your car, i would just rather swap (its nearly all bolt-in) a forged internal cloud car 2.4 bottom end into your car and then basically you have the same motor.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...uild-420a-stage-2-turbo-kit-under-1000-a.html

 

[Lashes09]

Alright.. so i can get that whole turbo kit for a descent price.. but wont I still have to replace other parts of the engine? or build it up more?

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

Yes and no, every engine has a point to where it can take a certain amount of abuse and not be damaged. The 420a is a pretty stout engine and many people make 250fwhp on factory stock blocks, though of course if you want more then it would be advised that you upgrade to forged/stronger internals.

 

[nothingfiction]

Most people will say the 420A is crap once you go past about 300HP because the head will seperate from the block or some crap like that... i am here to show you that Hahn Racecraft built a 450HP Eclipse RS 10 years ago all the while still staying predominately stock.

Hahn Racecraft 450HP 11.7 second Eclipse RS

Taken from: Hahn Racecraft - Automotive Turbosystems

Our first prototype vehicle for 420A Turbosystem testing was our own 1998 Eclipse RS. This long-term testbed vehicle was at first used to engineer our Stage I and II turbosystems.

During this period, we were surprised and pleased to learn that the 420A looked promising and amazingly modern when inspected internally. As it is a truly new engine (1995 was its introduction), its CAD design and contemporary design improvements were apparent upon close inspection. The design concepts we noted in the 420A suggested strongly that our current and future power and durability aspirations should meet with success:

In the first year of testing, we studied the effects of our Stage I and II turbosystems on COMPLETELY STOCK ENGINES. This long term testing was crucial to determining the safe upgrade limits for these otherwise stock engines and drivetrains. Over thousands of street miles through all types of climates, with dozens of drag strip passes in between, our prototypes were put through their paces. The stock engines proved quite well suited to the 250 to 275 HP that our Stage II kit produces.

After a year of successful turbosystem and durability development with the stock engines, the time had come to explore the next level. With a target of 375-400 HP, new engines were prepared with forged pistons and billet connecting rods. One was installed in our Eclipse, another in the Neon. These units were carefully assembled, but were intentionally left OTHERWISE COMPLETELY STOCK except for the pistons and rods. We also upgraded the fuel systems to full programmable units, while adding a more powerful ignition amplifier. These changes allowed the turbo and intercooler that are standard in Stage I and II systems to run higher boost and produce their maximum airflow of almost 400HP.

The next step in power, was tested with our Eclipse RS. In addition to the fuel system and engine internal mods, we added a larger intercooler and converted the turbo to Super 20G specs. Remapping of the programmable fuel system we had previously installed allowed us to take advantage of the additional airflow provided by the larger turbo and front-mounted intercooler. Here the 420A engine proved itself yet again: it was now producing 450+HP, enough to propel the 2900 lb. Eclipse to 122 MPH in 11.7 seconds. Yet the car is compliant and cooperative in street driving, still wears air conditioning and goes anywhere!

It is important to note that our 450+HP Eclipse 420A engines are still STOCK in terms of airflow. For the sake of turbosystem economy and simplicity, as well as good street manners, we decided to explore the maximum amount of power available while still blowing through a stock throttle body, intake manifold, cylinder head, cams and valves. The outcome is impressive, to say the least. Although the durability improvement provided by the piston and rod upgrades is essential to the use of these engines over 300HP, the pistons and rods do not help produce more power. The power gains are strictly achieved through the capabilities of the HRC turbo and fuel systems. 450+HP is enough for most, and readily achievable. Yet a brave few will try to imagine what results could be achieved with the addition of cylinder head / manifold improvements!

For Hahn RaceCraft, the next step will be to do just that. Our continuing development of the 420A will now explore what we can achieve when we are not limiting ourselves to the 450 or so HP airflow of the stock components. Moving effectively to the next level prompts us to finally take off the stock manifold and other parts that had performed so well to date. It's a bittersweet moment, for while we look forward to the huge power gains enabled by the new parts, we will miss the outright simplicity, ease and affordability of the stock parts. No matter. In order to maintain our position as the authority on these engines under high output, we will now forge ahead to ever-higher power levels. The information learned as we cross the 500HP mark will continue to benefit all of our 420A Turbosystems and engine components. We plan to persist until we have achieved the 400+HP per liter of engine displacement we have achieved with some of our other notable engine programs

P.S.: The transaxle these engines are coupled to is a nice piece in its own right. Its durability definitely makes the engine's strong points even more viable. In the worst case scenario we've been able to come up with, our 98 Eclipse RS has withstood thousands of miles of turbocharged street use and 11.7 second quarter miles. It weighs about 2900 lbs. with driver and has a completely stock transaxle, uses slicks at the track and has had ZERO transmission issues. I've never missed a gear in it in over a hundred dragstrip passes. It's a perfect marriage with the Stage IV clutch we provide. I drive it hard, and if it holds up to what I dish out, then it's a durable gearbox! The fact that the stock components have held up to this brutal power level for so long is evidence of the durability that you can expect.

Long story short " Little did we know at that time that we would be building over 450HP with this exceptional engine by late 1999" Thats 10 years ago!!! and HRC is located in illinois so you know that they do get all different climates unlike florida or california and nevada n such

 

[Lashes09]

well if im going to go through the process of putting a turbo in it i might as well do the other stuff. plus i have a small leak somewhere in the back of the engine (i cant remember exactly where they said it was) and the only way to fix it is to pull the engine completely.. so my next question i guess is what all internals should i be looking at and how much should i expect to spend?

 

[LD25Delta9]

Okay first off let me say thanks for providing a post that violates rule one of owning a 420a: Never give the 4g63 guys ammo. Second, it's also frowned upon in the forums for them to reply with "Sell your 420A and get a 4g63" so thanks for giving them that opportunity, too. That kind of banter used to be relegated to the 4g63 forums....

420A: It can handle power.... Lots of Power. More than what most 4g63 guys will ever see....Right now the famed DSM-ZERO is close to 700hp. Last I knew, it was 661hp, but he's changing his setup. So as far as the 420A is concerned....How deep are your pockets?

4g63: Your ONLY option is the EVO 8 motor. It's the only 4g63 motor that can mount into our bay. We have a completely backwards side motor mount position than the GS-T or GSX. So again...How deep are your Pockets? Oh, and whoever said something about it not being a big gain: IT"S A FRICKEN EVO MOTOR!!!!

2.4: IMO, for the cost, you are better off building your current block and having just as much fun. There's not much it can do that the 420A can't. If you want unique, then I say go for it.

All in all, it all depends on your goals. If you want a 1200hp goal, start praying to Brent Rau. If you want a 500hp DD/Weekend Warrior, stick with the 420a.

Rock1t: Really? The F Body suggestion? You should be discommunicated as a DSMer. That's just plasphemy. That actually ruined my night.

 

[Lashes09]

well.. say i wanted to get around 300-400hp? I mean im in high school, lettering in two different sports. I dont really have the time to make a ton on money.. so I cant really go crazy i dont think. how much damage to the wallet do you think that would do? And what type of things am I looking at doing?

 

[nothingfiction]

Hahn Racecraft stage 2 on bone stock eclipse... roughly 250 - 275 WHP

you list having exhaust done... what brand and what size (2.25? 2.5? 3 inch?) is it just a fartcan replacing the muffler? or is it a true cat-back exhaust?
id ask about the headers/intake but going turbo both of those are scrapped anyway.
You will need to upgrade your tires to Z rated tires (H rated should be banned to sell to begin with)
Get some Crane or Crower cams

you should be in the bracket you're looking for.

HRC S2= 3,749.54
Crower 2's = $403.95 from summit racing

Anyone have actual HP specs on how much cams can give you on a stock engine? i read somewhere 90HP but can this be verified or "busted" ?

 

[#40Fan]

To the OP, this stuff isn't cheap. If you are still in HS, then stick with what you have. Keep up with maintaining the engine and enjoy what you have. After HS, if you have the bank for it, then build it up.

The 2.4l is a good option for the most bang for the buck. Even a stock 2.4l with the low end torque will waken up your car. I have only read a few posts about people putting them in an Eclipse/Avenger setup, but over on neons.org, they are a dime a dozen. Only draw back to the SRT-4 swap is the backwards head of the 420a to the Neon/SRT-4 set up. You could use your head, but the exhaust manifold/turbo won't work without mods because it will put the turbo on top of your P/S pump.

The 2.4 is almost a drop in and go if you use your head. The front engine (passenger side mount) would be the only thing to worry about. I can't remember from the threads that I read what they had to do to it.

 

[Lashes09]

so nothingfiction. your saying just do turbo and cams? and i've heard good things about port and polishing and a 3 angle valve job? and it is a true turbo cat back exhaust.. im drawing a blank on the brand right now though..

 

[nothingfiction]

a good port and polish would help a lot. and the job itself shouldn't cost more than 250-300... but thats if you give the machine shop the bare head already. which means you have to strip it down and then build it back up Roughly 2 weeks turn around should be expected from the machine shop. Other wise you could spend over 600 dollars plus the 250-300 on top of that for them to build it up and tear it down (not to mention gaskets and oil and such you will need as well for a complete rebuild set. Then you're still left with very very little gains as, yes you have opened the exhaust and intake up a little but you still have very few supporting mods to make a valve job beneficial.

My thoughts on the turbo and cams was based on what you could do without getting yourself into a huge teardown/build-up, just running pretty much stock equipment what would give you the most bang for the buck.

Now for just being a highschool student with a limited budget you may findthe 2GNT upgrade path more helpful.
Tech Guide: 2G 420A Power Upgrades - DSMtuners
ignore getting headers if you ever plan to turbo. the HP increase from headers is very minimal and if you go turbo that is money wasted.

Also keep in mind with the valve job / PnP...

Cylinder Head Porting
Greatly increase air flow through the cylinder head. You may need to compensate with more fuel, which means you'll need an aftermarket Air/Fuel Controller.

Keep that last part in mind... YOU MAY NEED an aftermarket AFC.

How you decide to do this is up to you. it's your car and i'm not here to tell you or persuade you what to do.
But if you're going to do something... Do it ONCE!. Don't get a stage 1 cam (which are usually described as being "too close to stock") and wish you got the stage 2. Don't get a stage 1 turbo and then wish you got a stage 2 because many stage 1 turbo parts will be altered, removed, replaced, ect. Don't get into a heavy teardown/build up and complain that your car hasn't been running for a year. You can do all of these if you want. i won't stop you. if you have the time, money, patience... go for it.
i just want you know what to expect is all. My suggestion was for a more simple bolt on technique. Cams are simple as hell to do. i'm doing them this week with my dad in his garage, even changing the valve springs too. the turbo you may want to have professionally installed but that is definitely the quickest and most successful way to get horsepower out of the RS. You can go with Hahn or Starkit or build your own. it's all up to you. Just know what you're getting into before you jump.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

The OP didn't ask whether he should sell his car and buy a GS-T or GSX, so don't suggest it. Doing so is explicitly against the rules of this forum.

 

[1995eternal]

yea, I say build up what you got. Its easy to say just throw another motor in it. But easier said than done. Dropping in another engine cost time and money, and if your not doing is yourself the time can cost you even more money in labor charges. I have a 95 RS. CIA, hi-flow cat, cat back exhaust. Even with that Im still wanting A LOT more out of my car. But being on a budget and not having the ability to rip apart an engine myself limits what I can do. Im staying with my original engine and adding to it and eventually going turbo. A whole new engine would be nice but I dont have a couple grand on me just for my car... To the OP, try keeping your stock engine and slowly add to it. Also having a plan is always good. I think a turbo kit would be your best bet. Good luck!

 

[Lashes09]

Alright.. so on my list I have cams and the turbo kit, along with a few small apperence things. I'm going to have to either pull the engine myself or have a shop do it to fix the leak in the back.. so is there anything special i should do while its out? Or what all else should i be adding to the list?

And to those who voted other.. what are you thinking? other than sell it because thats out of the question. i love my car.

Also.. with these upgrades will i have to replace my tranny or anything like that? (I'm already planning on upgrading my brakes) Or should i hold off on the brakes for a little bit? like if i dont need them right away i could build the engine that much faster.

 

[nothingfiction]

Depending on where exactly you are leaking from... back headgasket? back valve cover? an oil seal?
if it is the headgasket... perfect time to do the cams since everything is apart already. You do not need the engine all apart to do cams but if it is apart all of that gets taken out anyway so when putting it back on ditch the stockers and just upgrade. Or you may find this to be the time to do your engine port and polish you mentioned. Don't expect too much from it but the more you grow in your modifying process you will be glad you did it because it will start evening out later down the road. Just up to you and how much of a budget you are really looking into getting into.

 

[Lashes09]

Well unfortunately the leaking is coming from my rear main seal.. The guys said the engine would have to be pulled to fix it.. and i dont really wana pull it just to fix a little leak. So I was thinking maybe buy another 420a, build it and do whatever to it while its out and then just swap the engines? then sell the one i have now to make up for some of it.

 

[nothingfiction]

That could be good. Good thinking and it will be a lot easier then doing things a piece at a time. However it's up to you and your cash flow. Of course the more cash flow you have the more you can get done quicker. with little cash flow you could spend a very long time building the secondary engine. So again it just goes to how patient you are and how much you're putting into this. i don't really care to hear the dollar amount. i'm not intrusive like that. Just as long as you know what you have, how much you can spend, and the time frame you are wanting this done by. As far as "building" it... the sky is the limit really... pistons, rods, cams, springs, valves, pulleys, and many other things can be upgraded. But our parts are expensive. Even after replacing and upgrading those you will still not have really big gains. Yes the engine will be able to handle a lot more anything you want to throw at it. But it is still limited by the ECU. ebay chips do not work on our cars so don't even bother looking at them. For our cars you have pretty much only two options for ECU replacements... Howell Automotive's AFX unit, or MegaSquirt. AEM also sells a ecu for our cars... but for that price you could buy the AFX ecu and megasquirt and just use MS as a piggyback to the afx.

Then on top of that when dealing with airflow into the engine you are building you will have to upgrade your fuel system as well. (injectors, pump, maybe even fuel rail) Now, i'm not saying this has to be done... but it all depends solely on how big of a build are you aiming for. Which of course means you need more parts (gauges, regulators, ect) so that you can monitor what you have done and make sure it is all healthy.

if i had the money and time to do this i would (having the second engine to work on i mean). But... i've only got a blown engine with a hole in the block. So i can only work on what's in/on the head and above that. But it's a good start and better than nothing.

 

[Lashes09]

Best case scenario.. I could probably get up to around 3-4 grand.. within a few months that is. probably around 6-7 if i save a ton of it through the winter and just wait for next spring. Which i really dont wana do.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

AEM also sells a ecu for our cars... but for that price you could buy the AFX ecu and megasquirt and just use MS as a piggyback to the afx.

AEM sells a universal EMS system that can work with the 420A given enough time, money and effort; it's hardly an ECU for the 420A.

There's no point in using a Megasquirt EMS ECU with an AF/X ECU when the Megasquirt ECU can do it all.

 

[nothingfiction]

AEM sells a universal EMS system that can work with the 420A given enough time, money and effort; it's hardly an ECU for the 420A.

There's no point in using a Megasquirt EMS ECU with an AF/X ECU when the Megasquirt ECU can do it all.

i didn't say that there would be a point to a piggyback like that. just said for the AEM unit's price that's what you could do.