HTA68 and Evo III 16g pics

[pboglio]

For the WRX, that 400 w.h.p. was impressive, more like 407 w.h.p. if I remember. That car had NO upgraded cams and a small topmount intercooler and your basic bolt-ons. Outfitted like my GSX is with cams (HKS 264) and big fmic, it would have crushed the 400 w.h.p. mark.

As far as what is worth what. I paid $815 for the Kelford 272 cams and such, didn't install them yet, but the gains MIGHT be 30 h.p. Or I spend $849 for the FP 68HTA and pickup 30 h.p. without compromised driveability.

 

[toofast82]

As far as what is worth what. I paid $815 for the Kelford 272 cams and such, didn't install them yet, but the gains MIGHT be 30 h.p. Or I spend $849 for the FP 68HTA and pickup 30 h.p. without compromised driveability.

True, but the cams will still have value or are useful when you crave more power in the future and it becomes necessary for a larger turbo.
I still feel HTA68 would be a much better option with a larger turbine offered.

 

[dsm-onster]

For the WRX, that 400 w.h.p. was impressive, more like 407 w.h.p. if I remember. That car had NO upgraded cams and a small topmount intercooler and your basic bolt-ons. Outfitted like my GSX is with cams (HKS 264) and big fmic, it would have crushed the 400 w.h.p. mark.

As far as what is worth what. I paid $815 for the Kelford 272 cams and such, didn't install them yet, but the gains MIGHT be 30 h.p. Or I spend $849 for the FP 68HTA and pickup 30 h.p. without compromised driveability.

There's several much better balanced turbos that are so close to that cost. And no dsm or wrx or open housing setup has gained 30whp. The evo did, which presents a vastly superior turbine housing design of which nulls the consequenses of high backpressure.

Yes, a compressor that flows as much as a 20g really is better balanced with a turbine wheel that flows more.







EDIT: Apparently they DO use a larger turbine wheel: Click! I know Greg. and I don't think he's mistaken in what Aniel said. As I said, the td05h turbine wheel in the td05h 7cm^2 turbine housing does NOT make sense with a compressor that flows as much as a 20g. If this turbo has a superior turbine wheel like the td06sl2 wheel, then I'm all about this upgrade in the case that you want sleeper and still quaility flow potential over the evo3 16g. Not as affordable as the much higher flowing hx35, but spool will be a little faster and it will look completely stock on a 1g car if you have one.

 

[autotalon]

Yes, a compressor that flows as much as a 20g really is better balanced with a turbine wheel that flows more.

So, in comparison to a bastard 16g (which has a 20g compressor). It would do better if it had a bigger hot side? Like what exactly? 8cm^2 housing? Or MachV's 10cm^2? What other wheels will fit into the DSM 7cm^2 housing?

 

[toofast82]

So, in comparison to a bastard 16g (which has a 20g compressor). It would do better if it had a bigger hot side? Like what exactly? 8cm^2 housing? Or MachV's 10cm^2? What other wheels will fit into the DSM 7cm^2 housing?

A larger turbine housing will help, but these guys are really talking about he turbine wheel itself.
The turbine housing must be machined for the proper turbine wheel. Most likely if you buy a 7cm housing, it will be machined already for a tdo5h turbine. If you were to go to a larger turbine such as a td06sl2 or tdo6h for example., it would need to be machined to accomodate the larger turbine.
The specialty turbines like the 8cm and 10cm, depending on where you bought them, may give you the option to buy it pre-machined for a larger turbine.

 

[pboglio]

The debate of whether this wheel or that, or which turbine housing or that is raging over at NASIOC. Most feel the 7cm turbine housing on a WRX 2.5 Liter motor is too small. Some say the 8cm housing is the way to go. As is stands, I have the option to easily go 8cm housing on the WRX 68HTA if testing shows the off throttle response is similar and the topend opens up. And I think its safe to assume a TD05H wheel can flow just fine with an 8cm housing, especially with a 47 lb/min flow cap.

DSMers are probably screwed here though.

 

[toofast82]

The debate of whether this wheel or that, or which turbine housing or that is raging over at NASIOC. Most feel the 7cm turbine housing on a WRX 2.5 Liter motor is too small. Some say the 8cm housing is the way to go. As is stands, I have the option to easily go 8cm housing on the WRX 68HTA if testing shows the off throttle response is similar and the topend opens up. And I think its safe to assume a TD05H wheel can flow just fine with an 8cm housing, especially with a 47 lb/min flow cap.

DSMers are probably screwed here though.

If you plan on getting to the point of maxing out the 68hta compressor in the pretty near future, I would most likely get the 8cm.
I would think you should have plenty of boost response with the 8cm given the 2.5l of displacement. Plus it will aid in maxing out the compressor over the 7cm.

If you plan on making say 380-400whp now on the sti and staying that way for a bit, then you may be better off with the 7cm if you already have it because you will still be in its realm of efficiency and maintain the slightly better boost response.
Then in the future when you need a little more turbine flow to max out the compressor, then the 8cm will be of use and an easy upgrade.

But from experience of going from a 6cm-7cm on a 14b, I would have never put the 6cm back on and I would assume you would feel that way about the 7&8cms if you tried both on the sti

 

[dsm-onster]

The turbine WHEEL determines flow. The turbine HOUSING tweeks flow for spool. IF you have a larger or better flowing turbine wheel, you will do the same or better than upgrading the housing. A 20g compressor can definately be pushed to the limits of its flow with a 7cm^2 turbine housing using a td06 turbine wheel.

As long as you have a better flowing turbine wheel pboglio, I can go to sleep at night at easy with your fp68hta purchase . . . Didn't you look at the turbine wheel? You know what a td05h turbine wheel looks like

. . . No one should buy a something without knowing what they are getting.

 

[pboglio]

I'll know what I'm up against when I run it. The STi is a poor choice for testing as it will have basic mods and no cams, but its all I can afford.

I don't argue the 68HTA could do better with a bigger turbine wheel. I'm going to safely make the claim that adding the turbine wheel will either a) raise the price by at least $200, or b) they will eat the cost. I'm going with a) here. How they speced out their 18g with the TD06Sl2 wheel was by sourcing half the turbo from China, as they clearly stated here on DSMTuners when pushed for details. Thats how they controlled costs. No thanks.

 

[dsm-onster]

Aniel said that to turn an e3 16g into an fp68hta, it has to have more work done to it than swapping/machining the compressor side. So what's left?

So you didn't look at the fp68 hta turbine side when you bought it? The differences that would encourage flow over the td05h turbine wheel would probably be difficult to see at first glance, i know. Just wondering if theres any way to see the wheel. . . The pick of the turbine wheel in this thread is definately not enough. Comparison pics of this vs. any old 14b on the a$$ end without turbine housings would be fine. Not trying to steal secrets. But not many are going to fall for dumping their money into a turbo that has the same flow as a 16g hotside. They can get those a dime a dozen. No one's going to be foolish enough to buy it without knowing what they're getting. Chuck Norris' thumb up or not

 

[E116]

But not many are going to fall for dumping their money into a turbo that has the same flow as a 16g hotside. They can get those a dime a dozen. No one's going to be foolish enough to buy it without knowing what they're getting. Chuck Norris' thumb up or not

Im in this group for sure. I have read every post I can find about this turbo on this site, on talk, and on the link forums. And sure curt brown and lucas english are saying to buy it but they are also had the turbo on A LOT better motors, and with A LOT better supporting mods than I will have. This is not enough for me to spend another $400 on the turbo over a 16g. But if the turbine wheel is better than the td05h, and someone dyno's this turbo and it has a much flatter line and holds power up top then this is probably the turbo I will get.

 

[94awdcoupe]

This discussion ensued breifly on evo forums when the evo black came out. The evo black 68lb/min uses the same exhuast wheel as evo red 60lb/min. Robert jumped in and quoted that at 30psi there was less backpressure with the black. Here are a couple of pics of red and black wheel. personally I think the hta68 is a great idea if you were planning on a 16g build. if you already have 16g it kinda pricey upgrade and likely not worth it to most.
1. black, red, green. middle=caliper diameter of black.
2. red wheel getting lost in black cover.

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[pboglio]

Aniel said that to turn an e3 16g into an fp68hta, it has to have more work done to it than swapping/machining the compressor side. So what's left?

So you didn't look at the fp68 hta turbine side when you bought it? The differences that would encourage flow over the td05h turbine wheel would probably be difficult to see at first glance, i know. Just wondering if theres any way to see the wheel. . . The pick of the turbine wheel in this thread is definately not enough. Comparison pics of this vs. any old 14b on the a$$ end without turbine housings would be fine. Not trying to steal secrets. But not many are going to fall for dumping their money into a turbo that has the same flow as a 16g hotside. They can get those a dime a dozen. No one's going to be foolish enough to buy it without knowing what they're getting. Chuck Norris' thumb up or not

Matt,

Yes I looked, its box stock MHI TD05H. A bigger turbine wheel is nice if it doesn't affect the bottom end or midrange torque, but we all know it does. And in a turbo of this size, I don't see the point of giving up those areas for only +3 lb/min on the topend. I'll deal with the backpressure by running racing gas to suppress knock. It would also push this turbo well up over $1000, again, a hard sell. Personally, what FP did was a no-brainer. The FP White was a dying breed and they leveraged the design for a new DSM product that takes things one step further. It fills a niche for us 16g/small turbo guys who don't need or want a bigger, laggier turbo.

 

[gofer]

For everyone thats posted in this thread, heres my results from switching from an E3 16g to a HTA68... logs attached.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/365929-fp-hta68-fp2-cams-e85.html