HRC Super 25G turbo turbo sizing compared to GT35R or GT37R ?

[Turbo-addicted]

I have a old but it's still unused Hahn Racecraft Super 25G Turbo and I sold my DSM with the big evo316g in it... So I plan on either use this turbo on my infiniti G35 coupe or sell it to somebody... The problem is HRC have discontinued this turbo production and I don't have any info about it other than it's a TD07s compressor mated w/ a TD06 exhaust wheel. I don't know it's A/R, trim, or lbs per min efficiency. They make a kit for the "G" with the GT35R and GT37R. I remember when I bought this S25G that it was supposed to be close to 700HP rate witch is where I'm gonna be w/ the "G" and it's powerband was from 4k to 10k on a 2.0L that means around 3k to 7.5k on a 3.5L witch is where I'm gonna be w/ the "G". The GT37R flows 75 lbs/ min and the GT35R flows 70 lbs/min. If the hrc s25g flow anything in between I can use it on my car since they all share a T3 flange... If not I have to get rid of it. I've e-mailed HRC but they have not even anwered me that's why I had to ask for help here... Does anybody know the flow rate, trim and a/r of the HRC S25G ? Any help will be greatly appreciated !

 

[spoolin ddub]

The Hahn Super 25G is smaller than a 35R and 37R. It's compressor wheel is only 60.48mm. So it's closer to a 35R. Do you know which turbine you have? Spooling it won't be a problem on your G35. It should get you around the 600whp mark.

Here is the info that was on Hahn's site.

Hahn Racecraft - Turbo Upgrades and Parts

 

[dsm-onster]

A 60mm compressor coupled to a td06 turbine wheel??? sounds like alot of fast spool but going no where up top to merrit the compressor. The turbine housings they use seam to be plenty large though. You should try it out. An hx40 has a 60mm compressor wheel and spools a bit faster on a 2.0L motor. But it's bolton and flows plenty as a bolton for 600whp. Still you should try it if you want. Nothign wrong with MHI hardware.

 

[Turbo-addicted]

The Hahn Super 25G is smaller than a 35R and 37R. It's compressor wheel is only 60.48mm. So it's closer to a 35R. Do you know which turbine you have? Spooling it won't be a problem on your G35. It should get you around the 600whp mark.

Here is the info that was on Hahn's site.

Hahn Racecraft - Turbo Upgrades and Parts

Thank you for that info. So if I really want the 700HP I'd better off going w/ a GT37R correct ?... Seems like they designed this s25g for fast spooling of a 2.0L or 2.4L and it's not rally what I'd look for the G35 since it has a v6 3.5L spooling will be easily done, I thought it had a bigger compressor wheel than 60.48mm since hrc claims it would be good for 700HP.

Oh and I don't know what kind of turbine I have... It's big but I wouldn't know the difference between the td06 and td06h...

A 60mm compressor coupled to a td06 turbine wheel??? sounds like alot of fast spool but going no where up top to merrit the compressor. The turbine housings they use seam to be plenty large though. You should try it out. An hx40 has a 60mm compressor wheel and spools a bit faster on a 2.0L motor. But it's bolton and flows plenty as a bolton for 600whp. Still you should try it if you want. Nothign wrong with MHI hardware.

I'd try if it had a little more flow... I'm aiming for 700HP w/o having to spray it. I'm also gonna run E85 on it, so the s25g seems too small for the G35... MHI on VQ35 Would be cool tho.

 

[JOEY A]

I don't see you making 700hp at all on this turbo. Greddy used this turbo in there singel turbo kits a s it was widley used in japan. Alot of people didnt buy this turbo becUse 20gs" were considered monsters back then.

 

[Turbo-addicted]

I don't see you making 700hp at all on this turbo. Greddy used this turbo in there singel turbo kits a s it was widley used in japan. Alot of people didnt buy this turbo becUse 20gs" were considered monsters back then.

20gs were monsters... imagine 25gs... That's why I thought in using it on the VQ35

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

The Hahn Super 25G is smaller than a 35R and 37R. It's compressor wheel is only 60.48mm. So it's closer to a 35R. Do you know which turbine you have? Spooling it won't be a problem on your G35. It should get you around the 600whp mark.

]

Actually a 25G is bigger than a 35R. The 60mm is the INDUCER size. That 25G wheel has a 78mm exducer. It's what Greddy used to advertise as their T67 turbo.

 

[JusMX141]

The 24V / 25G compressors are not used on any popular turbos for our cars, and there is probably a reason for that.

If your turbo has a TD06 turbine, the air generated by your compressor is going to be limited to whatever the turbine wheel can flow. In other words you can have a giant, laggy 80 lb/min compressor, but if your turbine flows 55 lb/min take a guess on what overall airflow number your turbo is going to make.

With that in mind you should buy a turbo based on it's peak compressor airflow at whatever boost level you're able to run. Limited to less than 20psi? A 25G isn't going to suit you too well. You'd be better off with a 16G mated to a TD06 or 06H turbine in a large turbine housing to support the additional displacement without creating too much backpressure and raising EGT's.

This is the reason you see a turbo like a 17C stock on the Cyclone / Typhoon trucks. The 17C compressor has a nearly identical spec to a Big 16G but is more efficient at lower boost levels than the Big 16G wheel. The engineers found that the 17C compressor mated to a TD06 turbine is exactly what those trucks needed for the boost level they were designed to run from the factory.

The point here is don't buy a GT35R or GT37R to run 8psi or you're going to be disappointed with the lag versus the airflow at that low of a boost level.

 

[spoolin ddub]

Actually a 25G is bigger than a 35R. The 60mm is the INDUCER size. That 25G wheel has a 78mm exducer. It's what Greddy used to advertise as their T67 turbo.

That is incorrect. A 35R has a 61.4mm inducer and a 82mm exducer. So the 35R is slightly larger.


Everyone must remember this is going on a G35 and not a DSM. The question is how much boost do you want to run? For a G35 to make 700whp you are going to have to run like 20+psi. A 35R around 10psi will get you around the mid 400's. You want 700rwhp?

 

[dsm-onster]

Everyone must remember this is going on a G35 and not a DSM. The question is how much boost do you want to run? For a G35 to make 700whp you are going to have to run like 20+psi. A 35R around 10psi will get you around the mid 400's. You want 700rwhp?

Run 20psi with a t3-t4 60-1 or gt3082r or any hybrid with a small turbine wheel on the g35 and you're not going to see 700whp. First, you don't have a map so you are not sure of the boost efficiency. Mainly though, you're forgetting half the turbo.

Compessor:
For ANYTHING to make 700whp you need the same compressor flow potential, no matter the platform; give or take the thermal efficiency (the motor is a compressor pump with an efficieny map like a compressor). Which alters things 5-10%. As well, you will still need to get the same amount of mass flow out the a$$ end. Thus the turbine wheel/housing combination will still need to have a certain flow to exit 700whp of gases or you're never going to have the VE to see it. No 60-61mm compressor likes to see 700whp without being off the map.

Turbine:
No matter what, you're shooting yourself in the foot by running a td06h turbine wheel with the goal of 700whp. To have the td06h turbine flow enough to see the maximum potential of the quaint 60-1 compressor wheel, fp had to clip the hell out of the td06h turbine wheel and put it in the 8cm^2 turbine housing. So you're coupling THAT turbine wheel to a 60mm compressor wheel which doesn't flow enough to see 700whp without ringing it out for all it is worth regardless of how much displacement you have; since no 60mm wheels likes to see 700whp without being off the map. How can you get those gases out of the block which 60mm compressor can allow with such a bottleneck? They post a picture themselves comparing the td06h turbine wheel to the t350 turbine wheel. How much whp has the t350 turbine wheel produced? The td06h turbine wheel is a bit smaller, as visually apparent. You want to run a compressor off the map which requires MUCH more energy, then use a turbine wheel that extracts LESS energy from the exhaust than the wheel that is properly coupled to it.

You need a huge, HUGE turbine housing. Which will compliment your vq35 since it can probably still sustain some semblance of street manners with such a housing. So what housing does this charger have? You're going to take a gamble since it's not been proven ANY housing is large enough to counter the tiny (relative to the compressor) td06h turbine wheel.

We should be contributing information to help the op choose the proper turbo, not one that will eak by on the compressor side and likely never allow it on the turbine side.

Why does hahn say it can support almost 700whp? There has to have been some result, compressor map, something??? If they can't at least produce a map (which would help us folks looking for the 25g compressor map too) and clarify the turbine housing size, then it's alot of smoke in your colon.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

The 24V / 25G compressors are not used on any popular turbos for our cars, and there is probably a reason for that.

That's because Greddy has a license agreement with Mitsu to be the SOLE aftermarket purchaser of these compressor wheels for their "T66" or whatever turbo.

 

[JusMX141]

That's because Greddy has a license agreement with Mitsu to be the SOLE aftermarket purchaser of these compressor wheels for their "T66" or whatever turbo.

Well that explains it....leave it to Greddy to mate a huge compressor to a TD06 turbine and call it a "700hp turbo".

 

[Ceddy]

If the turbo has the TD06H wheel and 10 cm housing the hot side should be near 700 HP capable.

There are plenty of 2.4L Evos running the FP Black making near 700.
The Black has a 67mm turbine wheel, same size as TD06H.
And a 10.5 Twin Scroll housing, smaller then 10 cm Single Scroll.

No idea if the 25G compressor can keep up.


That being said, these Evos are going for the "Stock Frame Turbo" record, and are pushing the turbo to the absolute limit. They run into issues like not being able to turn up boost because the back pressure is so high.

If you want any "easy" 700 HP, a different turbo will get you there quicker.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Guys, the diameter of a wheel is a moot argument to take for airflow capabilities. Please stop using it.

 

[donniekak]

Guys, the diameter of a wheel is a moot argument to take for airflow capabilities. Please stop using it.

Please clarify.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Please clarify.

*sigh*

Turbocharger aero (the thickness, angle, number of blades) is NOT quantified by a simple wheel diameter.

I could call a solid billet a "wheel" of xx diameter and guess what, it would flow exactly nothing.

 

[donniekak]

*sigh*

Turbocharger aero (the thickness, angle, number of blades) is NOT quantified by a simple wheel diameter.

I could call a solid billet a "wheel" of xx diameter and guess what, it would flow exactly nothing.

SIGH Most modern wheels have similar aero tech, and compressors of the same approximate size can be expected to flow within 10-20% of each other, at the wide end of the spectrum. Same with turbines.

 

[dsm-onster]

Tell me about it: condescending "sighs" and "I gots a bs in bs". Lets get into slip factor and cascading and he disappears. Which whining about all the specifics of a compressor wheel serves little purpose here. We have not enough characteristics known of the wheel in question to judge. We do have some across the board trends that guarantee a range of flow.

Yes sir! the aero is all quite close. The big difference is the 10-15% difference. This is why we all know hx40s net similar results to gt35r turbos to s362 turbos on similar setups (with similar hotsides). The small differences is where one compressor works out better than another for a particular setup: small percent difference in efficiency here, small percent difference in flow there, exactly where the flow plots across the map with respect to the properly chosen turbine.

 

[Turbo-addicted]

Run 20psi with a t3-t4 60-1 or gt3082r or any hybrid with a small turbine wheel on the g35 and you're not going to see 700whp. First, you don't have a map so you are not sure of the boost efficiency. Mainly though, you're forgetting half the turbo.

Compessor:
For ANYTHING to make 700whp you need the same compressor flow potential, no matter the platform; give or take the thermal efficiency (the motor is a compressor pump with an efficieny map like a compressor). Which alters things 5-10%. As well, you will still need to get the same amount of mass flow out the a$$ end. Thus the turbine wheel/housing combination will still need to have a certain flow to exit 700whp of gases or you're never going to have the VE to see it. No 60-61mm compressor likes to see 700whp without being off the map.

Turbine:
No matter what, you're shooting yourself in the foot by running a td06h turbine wheel with the goal of 700whp. To have the td06h turbine flow enough to see the maximum potential of the quaint 60-1 compressor wheel, fp had to clip the hell out of the td06h turbine wheel and put it in the 8cm^2 turbine housing. So you're coupling THAT turbine wheel to a 60mm compressor wheel which doesn't flow enough to see 700whp without ringing it out for all it is worth regardless of how much displacement you have; since no 60mm wheels likes to see 700whp without being off the map. How can you get those gases out of the block which 60mm compressor can allow with such a bottleneck? They post a picture themselves comparing the td06h turbine wheel to the t350 turbine wheel. How much whp has the t350 turbine wheel produced? The td06h turbine wheel is a bit smaller, as visually apparent. You want to run a compressor off the map which requires MUCH more energy, then use a turbine wheel that extracts LESS energy from the exhaust than the wheel that is properly coupled to it.

You need a huge, HUGE turbine housing. Which will compliment your vq35 since it can probably still sustain some semblance of street manners with such a housing. So what housing does this charger have? You're going to take a gamble since it's not been proven ANY housing is large enough to counter the tiny (relative to the compressor) td06h turbine wheel.

We should be contributing information to help the op choose the proper turbo, not one that will eak by on the compressor side and likely never allow it on the turbine side.

Why does hahn say it can support almost 700whp? There has to have been some result, compressor map, something??? If they can't at least produce a map (which would help us folks looking for the 25g compressor map too) and clarify the turbine housing size, then it's alot of smoke in your colon.

Thank you ! That's the answer I was looking for ### they say you can make 700HP doesn't necessarily means is the appropriate turbo for that. So I'm guessing my choice will be a GT37R that flows 75lbs/min. I should be good for 700HP using E85 on stock heads and built stage 1 block ( VQ35 ). The small td06 wouldn't make sense for my application.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Lingenfelter used to use twin t25's on their 1000hp corvette.

I think the 25g should do pretty decent in a g35.

 

[dsm-onster]

T25s flow 27lb/min. Two flow about half of what you need for 1000whp

 

[94awdcoupe]

I have run the 25g and 35r back to back on my car no other changes. The 25G is ~57lb/min turbo. The 35R ~62lb/min. The 35r spooled about 600rpm slower but made about 40whp more. The slower spool was very disappointing at first but soon realized spool between shifts was greatly improved. I loved the way the 25g pulled. didnt lay down at all. and that was with 8cm hotside (correct way to run it in my opinion)

the 24V wheel is the advanced replacement for 25g. far better aero. should spool 200rpm faster and flow ~59lb similar to HTA upgrades. pics hta82, 35r, 24v, 25g

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I have new 24v here with anti surge compressor cover and 12cm twin scroll t4 housing. should perform some where between an FP red and black for evo 8/9. will sell cheap . If anyone is interested in special project.

the fp red on Curt browns first fast 1g car was 60-1 with 6h/7cm hotside. 9.6 at 145mph. a 3065 was swapped in and only response between shifts was improved. ran about the same time but was easier to keep in boost.

the FP red and black turbos for evo 8/9 use 6h size wheel. But with one less blade and tweaked aero.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Thank you ! That's the answer I was looking for ### they say you can make 700HP doesn't necessarily means is the appropriate turbo for that. So I'm guessing my choice will be a GT37R that flows 75lbs/min. I should be good for 700HP using E85 on stock heads and built stage 1 block ( VQ35 ). The small td06 wouldn't make sense for my application.

You might want to look into this beautiful piece.

Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP HTA GT3794R Ball Bearing Turbocharger

 

[Turbo-addicted]

Ok so based on my HP goals my unused HRC super 25G is now for sale. Taking the best offer.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Would a standard 7cm turbine housing for a 06h wheel work?