Here is my log BAD or GOOD?

[white90gsx]

Here are my mods:


93 octane
255 walbro pump
550 injectors
NO AFTERMARKET FUEL PRESSURE REG.
act 2100 clutch
3 inch turbo back
hks bov recu.
k and n intake filter on stock intake pipe
safc controller(dont know how to use it yet.)
stock side mount


Now im running about 20 psi due to creep and stays about 18 psi then to 10 psi.

my logger is giving me about 15 knock at 6187 rpms with injp 8.95ms with a injd of 46.0%

Is this ok to keep running like this any ideas to make my car a little faster.

 

[JayRolla]

I would say no its not safe to run that much boost. Anything over 3-4 counts of knock is bad. Do you have a boost controller? If so I would remove it for now. Also creep is when the turbo hits 10psi, stops, then starts to creep up to higher levels of boost. What you mention is a spike of 18psi and drops to 10psi, which is usually caused by a bad or incorrectly installed MBC. Anyways you want to try and get your boost under control before you can start tuning.

Then read the SAFC tuning guide on this website, just do some searching and set your fuel trims up. With the safc and 550's you should be setting the the lo and hi at -18% to compensate for the larger injectors and work your tune off of that. I would say 15-18psi max on the stock sidemount is safe for your setup after some tuning. 12psi max without tuning and the safc compensated for the injectors. Ohh and a wideband o2 should be your next purchase to take the guess work out of tuning.

P.S. Some say you will not beable to get your fuel trims inline without an AFPR but I have never had an issue and either has two of my other buddys. If you cant get the fuel trims inline the FPR may be getting overun.

 

[white90gsx]

ok when you say work your tune what to you mean and the afc is already set at 18%...I will install a new boost controller tomorrow.Why cant I boost that much cant I just increase fuel to compensate for it that should reduce knock right?

 

[white90gsx]

Well what can happen if I keep this setup and can someone post rough fuel trim setups so I can keep this boost because the car runs real good. I'm going to track tomorrow to see what I run. Any input would be greatly appreciated....Thanks all

 

[JayRolla]

Car is not running good because it feels faster. You are going to burn that motor up. SAFC should be -18%. Read the safc tuning guide before asking anymore questions. The intake temps get to hot around 18psi on a 14b and it will cause knock. You need a fmic at least or timing control to pull timing out.

 

[white90gsx]

Ok I ran at track and with that setup I only got 6 counts of knock max.

 

[Black_Bullet]

FWIW; In the higher gears im comfortable with anything under 6 or 7 counts on my motor.
After 10 counts is were i think you should start to worry.
I dont think a DD should be tuned to the edge or knockign all the time, but if you were to tune a little more aggressively in regards to knock counts, Id say you shouldnt see any negligable knock in the first 3 gears and then a little knock in 4th and 5th would be acceptable since those gears are least used at wot ( I hope) and its natural for them to knock easier due to the higher load on the engine.

Try porting out your o2 housing and w.g. hole and it may take away your boost spike or creep or whatever it was yours is doing. That will probably make the car easier to tune. You also have to consider on colder nights when the ambient temp is a lot lower you probably will boost even harder, so 6 counts now could be 15 counts on a really cold night if your boost starts spiking or creeping hard. ( Random example.)

If funds permit, you really should consider tossing the safc and getting sometihng you can adjust timing with ( i.e. dsmlink, dsm chips, aem ) as your timing maps will probably be the largest factor in how much you can get away with on pump gas.

 

[m_0ney_pit]

Did you take the log down? can't see it

 

[white90gsx]

What do you mean take log down would you like me to list the log??Also I don't know about porting anything yet in the next few days im going to be buying the sbr bastard 20g, fmic and header. My goal is to keep the car the most reliable it can be.


Edit---e316g

 

[JayRolla]

So you set it where I said and it has 6 counts max. Not bad. Where you see the knock at a percent or two of fuel on the hi settings and that should bring it down perfect.

 

[white90gsx]

So what your saying is that were I have knock I can increase fuel and that will bring it down? If so I was reading that tuning with the safc but that was for a 420a not sure if it matters but I have not a clue on how to understand that at all. Is there a better tuning guide?

 

[JayRolla]

Yea where you have knock you add just a little fuel and it may bring it down.

Read this word for word and try to understand it and apply it when tuning.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/58403-definitive-piggyback-tuning-guide.html

 

[white90gsx]

Thanks a lot man im just gonna keep the boost down till I put the new turbo and front mount on.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Thanks a lot man im just gonna keep the boost down till I put the new turbo and front mount on.

The turbo and front mount arent your main issue, you need to get sometihng better to tune with and you'd be able to push your current setup much farther.

Now a bigger more efficient fmic and turbo will allow you to push your setup farther but i think you should get something to truely tune the thing first and just keep the boost a little down in the mean time.

Throwing more fuel to mask knock is a bandaid and a sloppy way of tuning.
Though it may work well in some situations, you can actually cause more knock from an overly rich AFR...
I think that can happen with anything under 10.5 afr, hell my car will even start to backfire if I go any richer than that. Just to keep that in mind.

Btw, what kind of spark plugs do you run.
I have recently found good results with running non projected spark plugs,
I run the NGK BR7ES and I used to run the BRP6ES and it cleared up some knock.
Also try sea foaming the engine, I did that recently also because my old tired engine had a lot of carbon build up that acts as hot spots in the cylinder which could cause some detonation. Keeping your engine bay temps down, making ducting for your fmic, perhaps running a cold air intake *( ive done that also with great results) etc. all will help you get more out of your tune in terms of the engines sensitivity to detonation.

Id be willing to bet doing all of what I suggested would take out a significant amount of your current knock counts. GL

 

[white90gsx]

To be honest I don't even know what plugs I am running. My biggest problem now is I think there is something wrong with my wastegate because im on my second mbc and I cant keep the boost down and tonight I ran into some real trouble. Some caviler thought he was tough so I ran him and I was running 25 psi with 47 counts of knock and I cant turn it down and I dont know what to do. What about this sea foam and I think I really need to buy a wideband.

 

[kqodprez]

HOLY CRAP Dude! Turn down the boost and make sure that the boost controller is installed properly. I wouldn't drive the car until I found out the problem. A day or two and patience is way better then shelling out money for a new motor/rebuild. Post your complete logs as well. Was there any timing pulled while knocking because with that high of knock your powerband would drop WAY down. Pull your plugs and see what "type" you are running. That only takes 2 minutes. And what are your safc settings anyway?

 

[white90gsx]

I know thats crazy boost. I don't know how to even use the afc yet but has a -18.0% correction. I'm not even going to look at the plugs im just going to buy the NGK BR7ES. I have the mbc off the nipple right off the turbo then on to the wast gate. I thought maybe I did have it hooked up wrong but I even switched the direction off the mbc and still did the same both mbc.

 

[Black_Bullet]

I know thats crazy boost. I don't know how to even use the afc yet but has a -18.0% correction. I'm not even going to look at the plugs im just going to buy the NGK BR7ES. I have the mbc off the nipple right off the turbo then on to the wast gate. I thought maybe I did have it hooked up wrong but I even switched the direction off the mbc and still did the same both mbc.

Check your w.g. flapper and make sure its opening.
Unhook the rod from the actuator and move the flapper up and down with your hand.

What was changed sinced you started boosting this high? Cause and effect?

Loosen the mbc all the way up to were its on minimum possible boost and see if that changes anything.

47 counts of knock means soon destruction in my opinion if you stay on the throttle.
Therefore dont do a full pull if your boost shoots beyond what you originally set it for until you figure out your problem.

25lbs isnt crazy boost when you can tune for it with proper supporting mods.

 

[white90gsx]

I didn't really do anything I tired to turn the boost down but went high so I turned it the other way and still the same..Well I just sold my benz so that means parts...I'm going to install a e316g and a fmic buy a brand new mbc then go from there..I'm just staying out of high boost till then..So would you be able to tell me what setup to go with when all my stuff is installed or do I have to guess? Meaning air/fuel settings.

 

[Black_Bullet]

I didn't really do anything I tired to turn the boost down but went high so I turned it the other way and still the same..Well I just sold my benz so that means parts...I'm going to install a e316g and a fmic buy a brand new mbc then go from there..I'm just staying out of high boost till then..So would you be able to tell me what setup to go with when all my stuff is installed or do I have to guess? Meaning air/fuel settings.

Dont waist your money on that stuff you mentioned buying,
the main things I think you need are < FMIC; external W.G. setup; dsmlink or dsm chip tune w/ eprom ecu; afpr >
then you'd be straight with your setup right there and ready to advance.

I wouldnt be able to tell you what setup, since every car is different and your car is much different than mines. You just have to tune and find out.

I can give you a rough formula that seems to be the general consensus for these cars,
which is-

AFR's on 93 octane pump gas seem to be fair around 11.0 and 11.5
and anything leaner or richer generally wouldnt be ideal.

Max timing on anything under 9:1 compression should be fine between 16-20 degs.
More or less depending on how much boost, how efficient your setup, and how long you do pulls and even what gear.

Btw, anything under 10 counts of knock I wouldnt even pay attention to honestly.

I have no idea about your boost problem if your mbc is still hooked up properly without anything tee'd into the lines, and you've confirmed that the w.g. flapper is opening completely right? Well thats odd for it to do that suddenly.

Take off the mbc and just take the vacuum hose and tap it from the jpipe and straight to the w.g. actuator with no mbc attached. This should cause you to boost whatever the wastegate spring pressure is. ( I think about 12lbs.)

Then give us the results of how it boosted that way and I could tell you if it sounds like creep or just flat out bizarre boost issues.

 

[white90gsx]

Alright im going to go do that now.If its the wastegate then a new turbo will fix that and also I want to stay away from dsmlink or anything that requires like a computer because this will be my dd. Im ordering the fmic tonight from punishment racing. What I wanted to do is just get the turbo and fmic tune it the best I can then thats it leave it go because once you get to into the dsms thats when they start to break.....

 

[white90gsx]

OK did it and I'm still hitting 25 psi.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Take off the mbc and just take the vacuum hose and tap it from the jpipe and straight to the w.g. actuator with no mbc attached. This should cause you to boost whatever the wastegate spring pressure is. ( I think about 12lbs.)

OK did it and I'm still hitting 25 psi.

Then the only thing reasonable is that there is a problem with your wastegate actuator or yoru waste gate flapper door not operating properly. I can only assume thats the case if you ran the vacuum hose from the jpipe straight to the nipple on the actuator itself with no mbc attached. Perhaps get another w.g. actuator for cheap and verify that the flapper door is opening like it should be. There isnt many things that would cause your issue.

 

[white90gsx]

I think I'm going to just buy the 16g.

 

[white90gsx]

Will an exhaust leak on the o2 house were the down pipe connects cause my wastegate not open right?