ECMlink Help with tuning SD. What next?

[justacanuck]

So, we got the car running fairly good. SD is all hooked up and logging, including WB data collected over EGR input on ECU using an "Autometer Phantom" which is 0V at 10:1 and 4V at 17:1.

I made some small adjustments to the top left portion of the SD table based on casual driving at under 30% throttle and little to no boost. Based on those adjustments, I also adjusted a good portion of the rest of the SD table DOWN a bit (i.e. -5%) to help lean it out a bit.

Not sure what we should be doing next, so I would appreciate any feedback on our log.

 

[justacanuck]

The above tune was using the 2G timing and 1G fuel map.

Thinking about this log, it seemed like it was too rich, and the timing was fairly conservative, so I decided to turn the boost controller down a bit, and switch to EVO8 Fuel and Timing map. I put the rev limiter down to 5500 just to make sure I didn't push it too hard until I could see the injector duty cycle.

The car runs even stronger and we did not run out of injector like we did previously. We encountered a couple degrees of knock in a couple spots, but nothing that seemed too serious. I'll work on pulling a little bit of timing in a couple spots before I try it again and probably try a little more boost.

It is relatively cold today, but I'm really thinking we have an issue with the thermostat. It must be stuck open because while we are driving, it will not stay above 160F, even with some cardboard covering a good portion of the radiator.

I'm really liking this speed density setup but I don't really have any experience tuning, so I would welcome any feedback on our log (attached).

 

[evil_eagletalon]

Have you watched the videos over at ecmlink.com? They are very imformative.

 

[justacanuck]

Have you watched the videos over at ecmlink.com? They are very imformative.

I have watched quite a few videos already, but not many from ECMLink themselves. They certainly know their stuff.

Thanks for that advice. I will certainly endeavor to watch more from them.

 

[jed344]

Very low timing. The air fuel ratio was fine but technically lean 1 point from your target. I would adjust the DA table to reflect the air fuel target you want then adjust the SD table to hit it. Looking at SD table i am going to guess that will get you close too 100 ve at wide open and confirm your injector global setting is correct.

 

[justacanuck]

Have you watched the videos over at ecmlink.com? They are very imformative.

I'm glad I went back and watched a couple of those videos again. I think I am close but I also I missed a couple of steps.

The Fuel Trim video here http://www.ecmtuning.com/demos/fueltrim.mp4 , in the 5-6 minute timeframe, shows how to set the Injector dead time properly. It also goes into some detail showing how to extend the closed loop operation to collect more data to help auto-tune everything.

I'm going to have to go backward a little bit, and make sure I have the injector deadtime dialed in properly.

 

[justacanuck]

Very low timing. The air fuel ratio was fine but technically lean 1 point from your target. I would adjust the DA table to reflect the air fuel target you want then adjust the SD table to hit it. Looking at SD table i am going to guess that will get you close too 100 ve at wide open and confirm your injector global setting is correct.

Yeah, I could not figure out why AFR seems to jump, the STFT/CombinedFT would not always stay within target. The logs seem to indicate I am getting close to where we need to be, but it does seem I am still running a fair little leaner than it should be, particularly when it switches to open loop.

I think the basics of the injector global settings are setup properly, except that I didn't tweak my injector dead time setup as explained in this video linked above. I think I need to go back and get that done, before I do much more to the SD table.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Your dead times will effect your idle fuel the greatest. I would get the car completely warmed up, then adjust your deadtimes till your stft and selectedltft are as close to zero as you can get them. In your log near the end your fuel trims stay very close to zero but are mostly positive 0-5%. I would only add maybe 10 or 15 uSEC to deadtime until the fuel trims are dancing back and forth between negative and positive. Other than that the deadtime is fine and doesn't need any further changes.

Short term fuel is an immediate response to fueling in relation to your front o2 sensor. As your o2 goes up and down so will your STFT. Long term fuel trim is a timed average of your STFT applied to fueling. So if your STFT rests at +10% the ECU will over time move your LTFT towards your STFT. So as LTFT moves up towards 10% STFT will move towards zero. So in this situation when the LTFT hits 5% STFT would then be 5%. The total of both LTFT and STFT is called combined fuel trim and is a log-able value called CombinedFT. 5% LTFT and 5% STFT would be 10% CombinedFT, which shows a 10% overall adjustment.

 

[justacanuck]

Your dead times will effect your idle fuel the greatest. I would get the car completely warmed up, then adjust your deadtimes till your stft and selectedltft are as close to zero as you can get them. In your log near the end your fuel trims stay very close to zero but are mostly positive 0-5%. I would only add maybe 10 or 15 uSEC to deadtime until the fuel trims are dancing back and forth between negative and positive. Other than that the deadtime is fine and doesn't need any further changes.

Thank you very much for your advice.

I think I got this started in the wrong order. I had first adjusted a few cells in the SD table to get the idle working better, instead of fixing my injector deadtime first. My initial changes to the SD table were made before I did any verification of the injector dead time.

These injectors supposedly have ZERO deadtime, but from what I am reading, and what you are saying, it sounds like I should probably reset my SD table, get those deadtime settings corrected FIRST, and then move on to tuning the SD table.

Am I on the right track now?

 

[justacanuck]

I just received a package from STM today, so we should be able to fix the remaining (relatively tiny) boost leak(s) around the throttle body plate and get the IAT bung installed properly into the intake pipe. I just had it hanging out in the engine bay temporarily, since that is where our intake air filter is getting its air supply I thought that would be sufficient until the new bung arrived.

I'll probably hold off on any tuning until I resolve the leak and mount the IAT properly, now that we have them.

 

[Justin DuBois]

IAT is for after IC, in the boosted air flow, usually right before the TB. Ambient temps under the hood won’t be hot as boosted air, so its a good idea to hold off tuning SD ve maps anywhere aside from closed loop no boost area.

 

[justacanuck]

IAT is for after IC, in the boosted air flow, usually right before the TB. Ambient temps under the hood won’t be hot as boosted air, so its a good idea to hold off tuning SD ve maps anywhere aside from closed loop no boost area.

Understood.

I wasn't too worried about it because it is so cold outside right now, but now that I have the bung, I'll certainly get it installed properly before we do the SD VE map tuning.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

I just received a package from STM today, so we should be able to fix the remaining (relatively tiny) boost leak(s) around the throttle body plate and get the IAT bung installed properly into the intake pipe. I just had it hanging out in the engine bay temporarily, since that is where our intake air filter is getting its air supply I thought that would be sufficient until the new bung arrived.

I'll probably hold off on any tuning until I resolve the leak and mount the IAT properly, now that we have them.

Awhile back I sent in two sets of Evo injectors so they could be tested and everyone could have some real data on how they work and flow.
Here is that data in post #40

Post in thread 'evo 8 injector test results' https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/evo-8-injector-test-results.452990/post-153276423

I would also advice against tuning until IAT is setup

 

[justacanuck]

I think I need to get my boost under better control.

Awhile back I sent in two sets of Evo injectors so they could be tested and everyone could have some real data on how they work and flow.
Here is that data in post #40

Post in thread 'evo 8 injector test results' https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/evo-8-injector-test-results.452990/post-153276423

I would also advice against tuning until IAT is setup

Excellent data. thank you so much for sending that!!

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Since your just starting out I would simply run a boost line direct to your wastegate to simply run the lowest boost possible. Get everything straight, learn it all till you understand with confidence, then start worrying about raising the boost and boost control.

 

[justacanuck]

Since your just starting out I would simply run a boost line direct to your wastegate to simply run the lowest boost possible. Get everything straight, learn it all till you understand with confidence, then start worrying about raising the boost and boost control.

Please forgive my ignorance, but as I understand it, there are 2 basic elements of boost control; the BOV (recirculating) and an exhaust wastegate.

Should it have a line from boost pressure, to a "T" feeding both the wastegate and the BOV?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Please forgive my ignorance, but as I understand it, there are 2 basic elements of boost control; the BOV (recirculating) and an exhaust wastegate.

Should it have a line from boost pressure, to a "T" feeding both the wastegate and the BOV?

NO! Run Seperate lines. The BOV releases excess boost pressure in the system when you take your foot OFF of the gas and the throttle slaps closed fast. That pressure has to go somewhere and that is what the blow off valve does. The wastegate runs the turbo boost, for more or less. It holds the "waste boost" gate closed until boost pressure overruns the spring in the gate, then it opens to let out excess boost while you are ON the gas to put it in simple terms. Most people will run the wastegate off of the compressor housing boost reference nipple. The BOV line should come from the engine.

 

[steve]

These injectors supposedly have ZERO deadtime,

It's not zero deadtime, it's 0 global deadtime, so nothing additional added to the InjBatteryAdj direct map.

 

[justacanuck]

It's not zero deadtime, it's 0 global deadtime, so nothing additional added to the InjBatteryAdj direct map.

Oh. That makes sense now. Thank you for helping me understand that logic.

 

[justacanuck]

We finally got around to fixing several outstanding issues. One of the biggest issues was getting the IAT sensor bung welded into the intake pipe, about a foot from the throttle body. It is working exactly as expected.

More small boost leaks were identified and repaired. A small leak on the line from the intake manifold to BOV. Replaced hose. Another leak on the actuator on the Cyclone intake. Resolved by disabling it for now.

The Cyclone intake actuator is (was) connected to the (vacuum?) solenoid beside the FPR solenoid. The actuator seems to be leaking and I don't think the intake flapper system can operate/move. I could not get it to move with my fingers, nor did it seem to want to move with some air pressure applied, so I have disconnected, and plugged, the vacuum/boost source for now. Another thing to research. I don't really know anything about this intake besides the fact that it is (was?) a popular upgrade. I have an extra intake, so we could switch it out to the standard intake if repair on the Cyclone is impractical. Seems like it might be a fairly difficult job either way.

Based on the above discussion and data previously collected by Thomas Dorris, I also adjusted the global fuel settings, and updated BattAdjInjector global deadtime based on Thomas Dorris' test data. Following the ECMLink tutorial previously recommended for setting global deadtime, we arrived at -40 for the global dead time.

It seems to be running fairly well but we did seem to have some really concerning knock at ~3000rpm (log 11 below). It only seems to be a problem if we jump on the throttle fairly quickly and start to hit boost before 3k. If we roll into the throttle, it will hit similar boost levels at similar RPMs and very little knock, so we did get a log more throttle with higher RPMs. (log 12) but it looks like we are almost running out of injector capacity by 5000rpm (That was 4th gear)

 

[steve]

Following the ECMLink tutorial previously recommended for setting global deadtime, we arrived at -40 for the global dead time.

Interesting. You added about that in InjBatteryAdj and then pulled it back out using the global.
Biggest change was to the 9v setting where stock (for the factory 450cc injectors) is 1152us, you changed that to 1395us (+243us) then subtracted 40us for a result of 1355. So about 198 over stock.
At 12v it's +5us over stock (840us) since you set 885us - 40us =845us.

 

[justacanuck]

Interesting. You added about that in InjBatteryAdj and then pulled it back out using the global.
Biggest change was to the 9v setting where stock (for the factory 450cc injectors) is 1152us, you changed that to 1395us (+243us) then subtracted 40us for a result of 1355. So about 198 over stock.
At 12v it's +5us over stock (840us) since you set 885us - 40us =845us.

I suspect this is within the expected variability range typically seen in stock injectors.

 

[justacanuck]

I should have mentioned that we also eliminated the aftermarket manual boost controller which was located between the boost reference nipple and wastegate actuator. It does seem to release a small amount of boost pressure (i.e a slight audible difference) but I don't think the actuator actually moves as much as it should due to what I suspect is a non-factory spring tied to the assembly which was probably installed helped keep it closed (it sounds like it is blowing off at least some air, at almost any boost pressure).

Total boost achieved does not appear to have changed after bypassing the manual boost controller, although it also does feel like it make less power, so I am just guessing that the boost just builds up a little slower without the manual boost controller? (or possibly the wastegate is crippled with that extra spring installed? i.e. partially being held shut)

 

[steve]

I suspect this is within the expected variability range typically seen in stock injectors.

Maybe so but my point is change it in either the global or in InjBatteryAdj but not add D.T in one place and subtract it in another.

 

[justacanuck]

Maybe so but my point is change it in either the global or in InjBatteryAdj but not add D.T in one place and subtract it in another.

OK.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but it sounds like you are advocating that I should put the global DT back to ZERO and adjust ALL the values in InjBatteryAdj down by the same 40usec value?