Help!! Lost reverse out of no where??

[black97spyder]

So I just bought a '90 awd talon and its been running and driving great.... until last night when I lost reverse completely. This is my first 5 speed DSM and first 1g that ive owned. I have 2 auto 2g's that ive been working on over the last 3 years.

The car has been slowly getting harder and harder to get into reverse over the last few days before I lost reverse completely. It acts like it engages all the way when I try to put it in reverse. When I go to release the clutch with the car in reverse, the car dies like the parking brake is on or is somehow stuck between 2 gears and doesn't even attempt to move backwards??

It has a short throw shifter with good shifter bushings (no excessive play from the bushings), has an ACT clutch with 4 puck disk and fidanza lightweight flywheel, and shifter cables seem to be in good shape (but the one that is closest to the drivers side has some side to side play in it).... it doesnt seem like the shifter cables or clutch because I can feel it go into gear (or seems like it).

i removed the inspection cover to see if one of the big nuts had came loose or backed off but it hadn't, both big nuts were tight and nothing had came apart visually from the inspection cover side.

Please help!! I am at a total loss here and have no clue where to look next

 

[Boostdriven]

There is a 12mm head bolt that is almost directly above your clutch fork, its directly inline with the shift tower. Pull that bolt out and check to make sure that the end if it, (untreated part) is not wore out or broke off. That bolt prevents the tranny from going in to unwanted gears when you shift. If that bolt is broke then its possible that your your partially engaging a first gear as you try to put it in reverse.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Did he check reverse sensor or no?

 

[black97spyder]

Okay alex ill try that as soon as I get a chance!

Kyle- yes I already looked at the reverse sensor on the front of the tranny and it doesnt seem to have anything wrong with it, but forgot to look under it for the washer as it was sleeting when I checked ... but if your talking about the speed sensor that is back by the battery, I did not check/look at that.... I didnt check their torque either but I know neither moves by hand.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Wtf sensor are you looking at in the front of the trans, the reverse sensor is right of the speed sensor by the starter area. Youll see a wire going to it.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[black97spyder]

Ah well then idk, it could be the reverse switch im looking at, its the thing that makes the reverse lights come on ... ill have to look again because the sensor I was looking at is on the top front part of the tranny, not even close to the starter.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Yes the reverse light switch!

Straight from sheps website.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[black97spyder]

Thank you so much kyle! Sorry I was thinking way too hard earlier and u made it very clear what to check now.. and it should be really easy to check.

do u happen to know the torque specs for the sensor? If not ill look it up when I go to check it.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I dont knownthe torque spec. I jist did mine good n snug.

 

[Boostdriven]

If the reverse light switch is the problem then just back it off 1-2 turns and try to put it in reverse, if that does not fix the problem then its something else. Considering the problem you described I don't think its the revere switch though, if that was the problem then you couldn't put it in reverse at all and when you let off the couch nothing would happen, but what you're describing sounds like something is binding up causing the engine to stall when the clutch is released. Check that bolt I told you about.

 

[pauleyman]

I don't understand why you haven't just opened the hood and stuck it in reverse by hand. You know for sure 100% if you selected the right gear or not this way. If you don't have reverse at that point you have a problem inside the tranny. It is not possible to put the tranny into two gears at once. It IS possible to put it in the wrong gear if you're using the shifter inside the car. It is not very likely to make that mistake if you're shifting with the levers at the tranny. You can also see the rail movement if you remove the detent springs and balls although you should not have to do this unless you were checking for a broken rail/fork/end. In which case you should have problems with forward gears also and you're not. You can get into all gears 1-5 just fine right?

 

[black97spyder]

I PROMISE its going into reverse and its not the wrong gear.... if it was the wrong gear it wouldn't move backwards when I pull it slightly out of gear... and on top of that I dont know how/what movements under the hood will put it into which gear but im not a newb a driving a stick, just a newb with working on dsm 5 speeds. And yes it goes into 1st - 5th gear just fine.


I will check the bolt u told me about alex and also check the reverse sensor torque as well... Alex, the way u described what could happen if that bolt tip got messed up sounds like its the most likely thing at this point. Just havent had time to check any of the suggested solutions to my problem due to the ice (which is almost gone) and the holidays. Im hoping to get to check everything out on this 1g trans Friday before I pull the motor in my 2g.

 

[untouchablecc]

I PROMISE its going into reverse and its not the wrong gear.... if it was the wrong gear it wouldn't move backwards when I pull it slightly out of gear... and on top of that I dont know how/what movements under the hood will put it into which gear but im not a newb a driving a stick, just a newb with working on dsm 5 speeds. And yes it goes into 1st - 5th gear just fine.


I will check the bolt u told me about alex and also check the reverse sensor torque as well... Alex, the way u described what could happen if that bolt tip got messed up sounds like its the most likely thing at this point. Just havent had time to check any of the suggested solutions to my problem due to the ice (which is almost gone) and the holidays. Im hoping to get to check everything out on this 1g trans Friday before I pull the motor in my 2g.

Just have someone try and put it in reverse while you look at the linkage and make sure its going completely in reverse. If your doing it by hand under the hood reverse should be up and back on the linkage. What they are saying is you might not be completely going into reverse on the shifter but can do it by hand under the hood. There just trying to help you.

 

[Boostdriven]

Just have someone try and put it in reverse while you look at the linkage and make sure its going completely in reverse. If your doing it by hand under the hood reverse should be up and back on the linkage. What they are saying is you might not be completely going into reverse on the shifter but can do it by hand under the hood. There just trying to help you.

It's actually up and forward on the linkage. Not trying to be a smart ass, just correcting an honest mistake

 

[black97spyder]

Thank you alex! If needed ill have my dad try to make sure its in gear when I put it in reverse from inside the car but I can tell u now that's not the problem... still have to pull that 12mm headed bolt u were telling me about and check the torque on the reverse switch also but im betting that the problem lies with the bolt u were telling me about over the phone jus gotta cross my fingers when I go to check it!

 

[black97spyder]

Well guys got an update. I checked the 12mm shift tower bolt alex told me to check and there was no damage to the bolt. Also checked the reverse idler gear bolt and it was tight. I ran out of daylight before I got to check out the reverse switch but I dont think that is my problem... I believe that the problem is internal, like a shift fork is bent but im not 100% that is my problem.

So basically I am back to square one again on where/what I need to check for damage/problems.

 

[pauleyman]

Drop the trans, take it apart.

 

[keltalon]

Drop the trans, take it apart.

Paul I think he needs to verify that the trans is really broken before he drop it and take it apart As suggested above he really need to make sure that it is going in gear all the way because from my experience if something is broken on the inside there will be other gears that will be affected and he also mention that the problem was progressive which is not common with an internal breakage. Being fwd I must say I have broken a few trannies, 3 to be exact and they were all of a sudden breakage not gradual. I think the verification work would be to his advantage compared to pulling a tranny and breaking it down because that is a lot of work if he finds the issue to be some sort of engagement problem when this is done I agree 100% pull it and tear it apart and get back on the road and enjoy

Well guys got an update. I checked the 12mm shift tower bolt alex told me to check and there was no damage to the bolt. Also checked the reverse idler gear bolt and it was tight. I ran out of daylight before I got to check out the reverse switch but I dont think that is my problem... I believe that the problem is internal, like a shift fork is bent but im not 100% that is my problem.

So basically I am back to square one again on where/what I need to check for damage/problems.

I think it to be an engagement issue! Shift forks don't bend they just break. Now if you feel that you have done all you can then as paul stated above all that is left is to pull it and get inside

 

[Archer Fabrications]

The reverse seitch gets messed up if it's TOO tight or doesnt have a washer. YOU SAYING IT IS TIGHT doesnt mean you checked anything about it.

 

[pauleyman]

Heres the thing...op states it feels like its in two gears. Only a few possibilities I see. Its not really in reverse which is VERY easy to rule out, a possible engagement issue (in which case it shouldn't go in gear) car should feel like its in neutral. Or a posible internal issue. I dont think its a reverse switch issue because the problem was gradual. A switch would loosen up, not tighten and cause problems. A loose switch wont cause shifting issues.

 

[poi3]

idler gear might be worn out, try removing the transmission fluid and check for metal shavings or what not, wont find you into conclusions but you want to be sure before removing the transmission

 

[Archer Fabrications]

If you read what i said it's not about the switch being loose, but too tight that causes issues also.

 

[Petergeralis]

Disconnect shifter cables from trans and manually put it in reverse. That will eliminate suspected shifter problems, clutch problems and then you can see if the trans has ability to reverse. Other ways you were checking seem ass-backward.

 

[Wurrukatte]

Wtf sensor are you looking at in the front of the trans, the reverse sensor is right of the speed sensor by the starter area. Youll see a wire going to it.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This pic you posted wouldn't matter. I drove my TSI/AWD for a long time without that hooked up.
I'll tell you this though.
I had the same thing happen to me:
The most common problem is that the reverse light switch is over tightened or missing the washer underneath the switch. Simply remove the switch and replace the washer.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

This pic you posted wouldn't matter. I drove my TSI/AWD for a long time without that hooked up.

I'll tell you this though.

I had the same thing happen to me:

The most common problem is that the reverse light switch is over tightened or missing the washer underneath the switch. Simply remove the switch and replace the washer.

Yeah thats what ive been saying, said nothing about it being plugged in or not, i even quoted sheps web page.

 

[97_4g63t]

If you want to make sure its not the back up light switch just take it out and try to shift it. Since it was working fine and then got worse. I highly doubt it's this. I had one on without the washer and I couldn't shift to 5th or reverse (mine is a fwd though). Worth a shot though. I'm with them on shifting it from under the hood with the cables off.