1G Help - how to stop alternator squeal?

[Lancer_lover]

Hello i have this annoying problem my car squeall att start up and it is annoying bought a gates belt and it went quiet but after 4 or 5 monts in winter rest it squealls again at start up and i have tighten it so how do i solve it!!

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[Lancer_lover]

So the HB is the problem me and a friend put it on and started the car and you can se that it has slight wobbels

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[motomattx]

Someone with the resources needs to come up with an auto tensioner system for these cars.

 

[Lancer_lover]

Someone with the resources needs to come up with an auto tensioner system for these cars.

Oh yes!

 

[XC92]

Someone with the resources needs to come up with an auto tensioner system for these cars.

That would be nice but I've never seen one on any of the cars I've worked on, only for the TB which is obviously more critical. Any reason this doesn't come standard with cars, at least nicer ones?

 

[motomattx]

That would be nice but I've never seen one on any of the cars I've worked on, only for the TB which is obviously more critical. Any reason this doesn't come standard with cars, at least nicer ones?

Most cars built within the last 20 years have auto tensioners on the serpentine belts, I can't think of any that don't.

 

[XC92]

2010 Kia Rio LX, doesn't have any. Our other cars are >20 years old.

 

[motomattx]

2010 Kia Rio LX, doesn't have any. Our other cars are >20 years old.

Its a Kia Rio, thats not a REAL car c'mon man.

 

[Dericsh]

I guess the reason our older cars don’t have auto tensioners is because all of the accessories aren’t in line so there are multiple belts. Generally a serpentine belt with an auto tensioner is just for one big belt that runs everything.

 

[XC92]

Its a Kia Rio, thats not a REAL car c'mon man.

Heh, perhaps, but it's how I learned to fix and maintain cars. Its being relatively basic and cheap made it a good platform for that. Not nearly as much going on as with our DSMs, event he 1G's. But, same basic parts and principles.

I guess the reason our older cars don’t have auto tensioners is because all of the accessories aren’t in line so there are multiple belts. Generally a serpentine belt with an auto tensioner is just for one big belt that runs everything.

It's all going to be moot soon with EVs taking over. No more TB replacement, oil changes, trans rebuilds, plugs, compression tests, engine rebuilds, etc. Of course they'll still have brakes, WPs & coolant, suspension, etc. Do EV WPs run off belts or gears and if belts do they have tensioners? What about A/C? Do they all run off one serpentine?

 

[waltah]

This problem -- belt squeal on start-up -- is a regular in all the 90's DSMs and particularly so in the 4g63 and 4g64 engines which have the alternator on the right of the engine (front of the car). Look at the way the tensioner is designed: If that sheet metal bends at all -- and it's heavy indeed, but not cast iron -- you won't be able to pull that belt to full tension and when you lock it, it'll be marginal.

When''s the heaviest load on an alternator belt? (1) When the battery's down a bit, as it is right after starting the engine, particularly on a cold day, (2) When you have a new battery which pulls more charging current right at the start than a middle-aged one, and, (3) When the engine is running at low RPM (as when fast idling right after starting).

Worse even yet if you have a car with a high output alternator as some of the more luxurious models have or if you install one as an upgrade.

The 2g cars have more complex control of charging current than the earlier ones and may not be as prone to the problem -- I don't know.

In my opinion this is one of the very few design weaknesses in these cars. Management includes:

1. Watch out for glazed belts. Basically, change it often enough.

2. Tighten as best you can and lock the adjustment firmly. I've never found it necessary to Loctite the bolt, though, and since you will be adjusting it again in a year or so ...

3. Turn off 'heavy' accessories when starting -- no headlights, rear window defroster, or heater/AC blower. Don't turn them on until the squeal stops, even better not until you're starting to roll.

4. Once the oil is well on its way -- say 10 seconds -- increasing the engine RPM to 2000 or so will usually stop the noise. (Because the alternator will deliver X amps with less torque (force on the belt) in direct proportion to the RPM.) If it doesn't, time to recheck the above starting at #1.

To be clear: Alternator belt squeal is not normal but these cars are prone to developing the issue even though nothing is seriously wrong.

My technique includes:

5. Get old enough that you mostly can't hear such a high-pitched sound. This technique has mixed consequences however ...

 

[motomattx]

I think that someone should try to install a large spring that pulls on the alternator, attached to the alternator tension bolt (drill a hole through the bolt maybe?) and install the other end of the spring somewhere below like around a bolt from the oil filter housing assembly? and then set up the alternator bolts so that the alternator stays loose enough to float and is only tensioned by the spring, this type of auto tensioner may just work and would be self adjusting, the hard part would be to get the right tension on the alternator without over or under tensioning the belt, this would be done with the right spring in both length and thickness of course.

 

[Dericsh]

Do EV WPs run off belts or gears and if belts do they have tensioners? What about A/C? Do they all run off one serpentine?

I don’t know this for sure but when auto stop was being developed they switched to electric AC compressors so they would still work without the engine running. I would imagine these ev cars use electric water pumps and AC compressors also.

 

[motomattx]

Why would an ev car even have a water pump? they can just use electric heaters, unless they use water to cool the motors or something.

 

[XC92]

I don’t know this for sure but when auto stop was being developed they switched to electric AC compressors so they would still work without the engine running. I would imagine these ev cars use electric water pumps and AC compressors also.

Seems to me that belts are kind of antiquated and because they're prone to failure and wear items that just add needless complexity they should have long ago been replaced by electric motors.

Of course this requires a beefed-up alt, battery and electrical system. Might as well have electric brakes, power steering and clutches too, while you're at it. Don't high-end cars, especially EVs, have these?

Why would an ev car even have a water pump? they can just use electric heaters, unless they use water to cool the motors or something.

My understanding is that they still need cooling systems to cool the batteries, which get hot under load, and, well, being LiOn, well, you really don't want them to be too hot. Which needs a WP to circulate that coolant.

And, now that you mention it, it's not a bad idea to use that offloaded heat to heat the passenger compartment in colder weather, instead of making the batteries do all the work. I wonder if that's how it works.

This problem -- belt squeal on start-up -- is a regular in all the 90's DSMs and particularly so in the 4g63 and 4g64 engines which have the alternator on the right of the engine (front of the car). Look at the way the tensioner is designed: If that sheet metal bends at all -- and it's heavy indeed, but not cast iron -- you won't be able to pull that belt to full tension and when you lock it, it'll be marginal.

When''s the heaviest load on an alternator belt? (1) When the battery's down a bit, as it is right after starting the engine, particularly on a cold day, (2) When you have a new battery which pulls more charging current right at the start than a middle-aged one, and, (3) When the engine is running at low RPM (as when fast idling right after starting).

Worse even yet if you have a car with a high output alternator as some of the more luxurious models have or if you install one as an upgrade.

The 2g cars have more complex control of charging current than the earlier ones and may not be as prone to the problem -- I don't know.

In my opinion this is one of the very few design weaknesses in these cars. Management includes:

1. Watch out for glazed belts. Basically, change it often enough.

2. Tighten as best you can and lock the adjustment firmly. I've never found it necessary to Loctite the bolt, though, and since you will be adjusting it again in a year or so ...

3. Turn off 'heavy' accessories when starting -- no headlights, rear window defroster, or heater/AC blower. Don't turn them on until the squeal stops, even better not until you're starting to roll.

4. Once the oil is well on its way -- say 10 seconds -- increasing the engine RPM to 2000 or so will usually stop the noise. (Because the alternator will deliver X amps with less torque (force on the belt) in direct proportion to the RPM.) If it doesn't, time to recheck the above starting at #1.

To be clear: Alternator belt squeal is not normal but these cars are prone to developing the issue even though nothing is seriously wrong.

My technique includes:

5. Get old enough that you mostly can't hear such a high-pitched sound. This technique has mixed consequences however ...

And I thought I'd just installed the new alt belt wrong. I didn't realize this was a design flaw or something. It's a pain to adjust, what with the pivot bolt being so far down and the clearance so tight there. Plus there's this sharp metal clip or something to hold a sensor wire that keeps cutting my skin or gloves. I should just break it off and replace it with something less lethal.

In fact today I was at HF and bought a long reach combo wrench set, in part to make it easier to loosen and tighten that bolt, and some others. If I'm going to be adjusting the tension fairly often I want it to be as painless as possible. I should probably also buy a spare belt and keep it in the trunk in case the one that's installed snaps. I recently had that happen and it was not fun.

How tight should the belt be? I have one of those finger gauges but it's not very reliable in my experience so I just go by feel, and the 1/4 turn rule.

 

[Mech Addict]

I think what waltah said makes sense, in terms of describing the way the squeal behaves, and how it relates to alternator demand. In my car I drive like 1/4 mile to a stop sign where the noise comes back briefly at idle, and disappears again once underway. Once it’s warmed up, though, no noise.

The spec in the FSM is not easy to measure. One of those fancy tools from OTC is about $140. Plus, as others have already pointed out, the oem tensioning system is a bit janky in practice. I’ve eyed the custom one from Boosted Fabrication, which seems to give more precise control over tightening. Anyone make the switch and have results to report?

 

[Lancer_lover]

Hello guys finally got my new Hb
Big diffrence and if anyone need one fast here is from other mitsubishis
That has the same hb

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[Lancer_lover]

Just hope i have tighten then all

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[AWD-Tony]

Just hope i have tighten then all

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Not too tight, not too loose. Did it fix the noise?