1G Help - how to stop alternator squeal?

[Lancer_lover]

Hello i have this annoying problem my car squeall att start up and it is annoying bought a gates belt and it went quiet but after 4 or 5 monts in winter rest it squealls again at start up and i have tighten it so how do i solve it!!

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[AWD-Tony]

The oil pump looks off and hard to see if crank is lined up. Idk if the non turbo 4g is different.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[XC92]

I havnt touch it yet, my order of part hasnt arrive yet but waiting cam gear stop and tensioner tools gasket and all that. So anyone can recomend a new HB somewhere that will last longer than 2/3 years

Everyone says either OEM or fluid damper. There's still some life in mine even though it's over 17 years old and the 2nd I've had, but when it's time to replace it I'll seriously consider the latter. It's expensive at nearly $400 vs around $150 for the OEM, but it's supposed to be a lifetime part as opposed to the OEM.

And if you mod your car to have much more HP, it's supposed to be preferable as it "self-adjusts" to the new harmonics created by higher than stock HP.

Also, if you end up removing the TB to adjust or replace something, I'd clean the front cover and other parts as well as you can. Makes seeing the timing marks and other things a lot easier. Plus it just FEELS right.

 

[We're on Boost]

Here's how the arrow on the oil pump sprocket is supposed to line up.
This is from the 1g factory service manual in the section for the 2 liter DOHC which yours is. Page 9-104.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[XC92]

Obtaining and confirming alignment is easy, so long as everything's installed right and all the parts are clean enough to see clearly. It wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be. Getting tension right was harder, but not by much. The hard parts about a TB were all the stupid things like getting the bottom cover back in and reinstalling the WP pulleys, because it's so tight in there, and figuring out how to get to that rear engine bolt to verify rear balance shaft alignment (clue: from above on the right side, where the throttle is).

 

[motomattx]

Buy the Fluidampr, the quality on that thing is top notch and I regret not buying one sooner, I have had mine for a few years now, and you can feel a difference in vibration with the billet mounts for sure, I got mine during a black Friday deal on Extreme Psi, sometimes you can get them a few bucks off that way.

 

[XC92]

Buy the Fluidampr, the quality on that thing is top notch and I regret not buying one sooner, I have had mine for a few years now, and you can feel a difference in vibration with the billet mounts for sure, I got mine during a black Friday deal on Extreme Psi, sometimes you can get them a few bucks off that way.

What's a billet mount and how/why does it vibrate with the stock HB?

Sorry, still learning as I go. That said, I'm now able to offer useful advice to others on other things. Just today I helped a neighbor with a rear brake pad replacement. He was trying to push the caliper piston back in without turning it in, because he didn't know that rears often operate differently from fronts because of the e-brake mechanism. I myself didn't know that all that long ago. Of course instead of taking my advice and driving 2 miles to the nearest auto store to loan out the proper tool, he and some friends spent hours trying to do it with pliers. You can lead a horse to water...

 

[Lancer_lover]

Everyone says either OEM or fluid damper. There's still some life in mine even though it's over 17 years old and the 2nd I've had, but when it's time to replace it I'll seriously consider the latter. It's expensive at nearly $400 vs around $150 for the OEM, but it's supposed to be a lifetime part as opposed to the OEM.

And if you mod your car to have much more HP, it's supposed to be preferable as it "self-adjusts" to the new harmonics created by higher than stock HP.

Also, if you end up removing the TB to adjust or replace something, I'd clean the front cover and other parts as well as you can. Makes seeing the timing marks and other things a lot easier. Plus it just FEELS right.

Oh the front cover is shining clean now took me forever but now its clean

 

[XC92]

Oh the front cover is shining clean now took me forever but now its clean

I used Gunk and Super Clean and it still took a while. But we're talking over 29 years of crud and grease and all that nasty stuff. You'll be glad for it.

 

[AWD-Tony]

An easier method to check the rear balance shaft/oil pump sprocket.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[XC92]

It's actually not that hard to access that rear bolt and stick a screwdriver in there. Apparently the above method isn't reliable if you just replaced the seal.

 

[AWD-Tony]

It's actually not that hard to access that rear bolt and stick a screwdriver in there. Apparently the above method isn't reliable if you just replaced the seal.

No. This method is easier regardless if the seal is new or old.

 

[XC92]

I tried it and wasn't confident with the results. The bolt method is 100% reliable since the screwdriver only fits if the rotation is correct.

Btw since I replace the TB & BSB, not sure if it's related but I get this odd "growling" sound when I shift into gear, upon releasing the pedal. The old BSB was a mess when I replaced it, tearing under pressure when I tried to use it to loosing the front BS bolt. There was also quite a bit of play in the front shaft when I removed the sprocket and spacer. Could this be a sign that its bearing is failing. There was no radia or up and down play or resistance or roughness when I turned the shaft by hand.

 

[AWD-Tony]

So is that method

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

The solution to this thread needs to be marked as post #9, not post #12.

 

[chrisman287]

Pardon Our Interruption...

Solid piece and not an underdrive pulley.

 

[XC92]

Why would someone put this on a DD?

 

[steve]

Cause it's cheap, and aluminum, and they don't care about their crankshaft..

 

[XC92]

So other than that, Mrs. Lincoln...

 

[AWD-Tony]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[motomattx]

Why would someone put this on a DD?

Its cheap, its shiny, etc. The cheap one piece pulleys including the under-drive pulleys (which are meant to save horsepower by not spinning the accessories as fast), dont have any type of dampening ability to them due to their design being one piece with no rubber or fluid inside of them to absorb vibration, our factory dampeners are there to absorb vibration, not the type that we can necessarily only feel in the steering wheel but also the type that we dont feel known in the industry as second level harmonics, these second level harmonics if not checked will allow the crankshaft to vibrate all the way through at various frequencies, that happening can damage the rod bearings, the clutch assembly/flywheel, cause clutch engagement/dis-engagement issues, crankshaft fractures, etc.

Engine balance

Engine balance is the design, construction and tuning of an engine to run smoothly. Engine balance reduces vibration and other stresses, and may improve the performance, efficiency, cost of ownership and reliability of the engine, as well as reducing the stress on other machinery and people near...

automobile.fandom.com

This might explain it some more, I didnt watch the entire thing, let me know if its of any use:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

What's a billet mount and how/why does it vibrate with the stock HB?

Sorry, still learning as I go. That said, I'm now able to offer useful advice to others on other things. Just today I helped a neighbor with a rear brake pad replacement. He was trying to push the caliper piston back in without turning it in, because he didn't know that rears often operate differently from fronts because of the e-brake mechanism. I myself didn't know that all that long ago. Of course instead of taking my advice and driving 2 miles to the nearest auto store to loan out the proper tool, he and some friends spent hours trying to do it with pliers. You can lead a horse to water...

A billet mount is a billet aluminum engine mount, they are either solid aluminum or aluminum with poly inserts, in either case they transfer much more vibration from the engine to the frame of the car meaning more feeling of vibration in the steering wheel and interior, the advantage of them is that they also transfer power from the engine right to the chassis without any or very little play within the mount which cuts down on wheel hop and broken transmission parts and possible broken driveline parts and even broken engine blocks if its bad enough. Guys will remove the balance shafts from the engine to free up horsepower and to eliminate a broken balance shaft belt from getting tangled up in the main timing belt and causing an engine failure from the pistons hitting the valves, removal of the balance shafts results in more vibration in the engine and more being felt, the Fluidampr or other actual dampers are capable of cutting vibration down, whereas the aluminum pulleys wont remove any vibration at all and are just there as a pulley to hang the belts on for driving the accesories, with a billet motor mount you will notice a lot more vibration with an aluminum pulley, and even some additional with the stock dampener with the balance shafts removed, the Fluidampr does a better job than the stock dampener and a million times better than just an aluminum pulley with no balance shafts, the Fluidampr is therefore better for the health of the engine internals and the driveline components over the stock dampener also.

 

[XC92]

To respond to both of your comments, I still don't know what a billet is, it's just a word without contextual meaning for me here (when I hear billet I think where soldiers are stationed in wartime). But never mind about that, I can look it up. I'm sure it's just another one of those terms that isn't that important in itself as opposed to what it does. I mean, I still don't know why those rubber half moons you install in a valve cover are sometimes referred to as "packing". But whatever, it's all convention going way back.

But what I was asking wasn't why someone would install a damper (erroneously called a balancer), as I understand that, conceptually at least as I haven't studied it in depth let alone done the math (being decades removed from studying diff eq's makes that a bit of a challenge although I'm pretty sure I could do it). I was asking why someone wouldn't install one given what a damper's meant to do and all the bad things that can and likely eventually will happen if you don't.

But I guess that there are roughly two classes of performance car owners. One is the kind that enjoys "spirited" driving but otherwise views, treats and drives their car as they would any other DD, and draws the line on mods that fundamentally alter how the car was designed to be and run. It's not because they have anything against such mods, or think that there's anything "wrong" with them, it's just that it's not something they want to do themselves because they know that it comes at a price plus they just don't need that extra level of performance.

The other is the folks who want more than a basically stock performance car and are willing to make the mods necessary to get that, even if it means taking some risks and going way outside design specs, such as installing a solid crank pulley. Hopefully they understand the risks and other drawbacks and are willing to take them, as well as are willing and able to compensate for them by making other necessary mods (e.g. beefed up trans to handle high HP). This allows them to take their cars to the next level(s), but at a cost.

I'm obviously in the first group, and always will be. But is it fair to say that folks who install solid pulleys are in the second group, the only real question being whether they know what they're doing and the risks and drawbacks involved and are willing to take and accept them, and are not just damn fools who are playing with fire?

I'm keeping my damper, OEM for now, maybe fluid someday, but the OEM one still looks good. I'll keep an eye on it though. I also kept the balance shafts in. I checked both and they seemed to be in good shape, smooth rotational movement with no axial or side to side play. I also installed a Kevlar BS belt, to reduce the chance that it'll snap and take out the TB.

I'm currently persuaded that the designers of this version of the 4G63 that was meant to go into 1G DSMs knew what they were doing and weren't just designing a time bomb that the marketing people ordered them to put in to help sell more cars. But that's a guess and I'd have to study it in some depth to understand the rationale behind it along with that behind deleting them, as well as the real world pros and cons of each approach.

 

[motomattx]

Billet aluminum is when a manufacturer of a part takes a block of aluminum and machines the part from that block rather than pouring molten aluminum into a mold and casting it, the billet is stronger, your water pump for example is a cast part.

 

[Mech Addict]

A billet damper that does not have the rubber isolator is not really a dampener in the classic sense. It will allow more harmful harmonics and peak loads to the crank and all coupled moving parts. Whether that has a detrimental effect would depend on a host of operating factors, and how long the assembly was intended to last. The “gains” are likely negligible, though could be theoretically appealing. I’ve seen that some newer engines with one big belt that runs everything have done away with the damper ring, getting the same effect from the belt itself.

 

[Dericsh]

The solution to this thread needs to be marked as post #9, not post #12.

Thanks, fixed it.

@Lancer_lover did the same squeak come back causing this thread to continue or are you searching for multiple squeaks? Just wondering if the solution on post 9 should be removed?

 

[Lancer_lover]

Thanks, fixed it.

@Lancer_lover did the same squeak come back causing this thread to continue or are you searching for multiple squeaks? Just wondering if the solution on post 9 should be removed?

Hi i am still waiting on a new harmonic balanser so at the moment the problem is not fixed! Stupid covid!!

My plan is new alt belt 993 mm gates,
And try if it makes some noice! And if it does then remove it wait for my new balancer and try it if not then remove timing belt and check everything and replace!