GT35r ok for road race/autox or should I get something smaller?

[gixxerdrew]

Can you link me to the collier build info?

edit: nevermind I think I found them

 

[mitsu-luver]

No, you shouldn't necessarily be under 4500rpm while on a road course, but you might find out the hard way that keeping a turbo spooled at part throttle through turns isn't always easy. Everyone thinks of it in terms of WOT, when in fact, you're not always at WOT on the track. And you'll need more than a PWR radiator to keep things cool, trust me on that. I wish it where that simple. Do a search for Greg Collier's 2007 race car build to see the extreme measures he was going through in order to flow more air to the radiator. FMIC's cause cooling nightmares. In any event, best of luck with your build.

The DSM community tends to use a drag racer mentality when jumping into road racing and that type of planning rarely works out well. It's funny seeing so many DSMers wanting to run a big turbo on a road course. It's almost ironic. Most DSMers want to do everything on a backyard budget, yet want to use a turbo that will require high costs for the rest of the build in order for it to work right. The question of running a 35R in road racing is almost like a drag racing newbie wanting to run 10's. Can it be done? Sure, as long as you have a lot of money and you have someone building the car that knows what they're doing. Will most who ask be able to do it? Probably not.

When you're doing 10-12 seconds at WOT down the drag strip, that might be okay. But doing it for 20 minute sessions on a road course will make you realize really quick that a big turbo will bring all of your car's weak points into the spot light. If you want to run a 35R on a road race setup, be prepared to spend a lot of money on all of your other systems if you want reliability. High horsepower cars tend to be more expensive in road racing. They break more. A DSM is no different.

Ive actually thought about my choice in setup quite a bit the reason for going to a pwr barrel style inter cooler is because my radiator wont be getting the already heated up air that already went through the fmic so that's one. also the kit comes wit another radiator for the inter cooler that can be mounted away from the radiator to keep the inter coolers water cool. and last but not least the barrel style allows u to route the charge pipe straight from the compressor outlet to the intake manifold ( as seen on alex shusters old setup) . causing significantly less pressure drop . factor x racing nsx uses it in their time attack car. and haven't heard any bed reviews from anybody that's set it up the right way! and i have more up my sleeve to get the turbo to spool faster just their is many many factors that determine how ## forced induction system performs it just depends on the way u set it up

 

[Zmann42087]

Ive actually thought about my choice in setup quite a bit the reason for going to a pwr barrel style inter cooler is because my radiator wont be getting the already heated up air that already went through the fmic so that's one.

Hmm... a little something like this perhaps?

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[gixxerdrew]

Bad idea

 

[Ludachris]

Ive actually thought about my choice in setup quite a bit the reason for going to a pwr barrel style inter cooler is because my radiator wont be getting the already heated up air that already went through the fmic so that's one. also the kit comes wit another radiator for the inter cooler that can be mounted away from the radiator to keep the inter coolers water cool. and last but not least the barrel style allows u to route the charge pipe straight from the compressor outlet to the intake manifold ( as seen on alex shusters old setup) . causing significantly less pressure drop . factor x racing nsx uses it in their time attack car. and haven't heard any bed reviews from anybody that's set it up the right way! and i have more up my sleeve to get the turbo to spool faster just their is many many factors that determine how ## forced induction system performs it just depends on the way u set it up

I misread your last post - I thought you wrote PWR radiator, not PWR intercooler. Sounds like you're thinking out of the box a little, or at least, you're trying some unconventional methods that some think wouldn't work well. I'm hopeful it does work out for you. I'm always trying to find ways to make these cars better on the road course. It's good to have more people trying to do the same.

 

[mitsu-luver]

I misread your last post - I thought you wrote PWR radiator, not PWR intercooler. Sounds like you're thinking out of the box a little, or at least, you're trying some unconventional methods that some think wouldn't work well. I'm hopeful it does work out for you. I'm always trying to find ways to make these cars better on the road course. It's good to have more people trying to do the same.

thanks, i like to do stuff that people wouldnt think of doin but the setup i explained
was previously use by alex shuster in his old setup but i had it in my head befor i saw it
but ya i think that it should work real well. usually people are scared to use water to air because they think their gonna have to change the water all the time WTF. but i comes down to how big the radiator is and how long the water lines are. just thought id give u some more info on them i plan on doing alot more unusual mods

 

[mitsu-luver]

Hmm... a little something like this perhaps?

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oh yeah im in love with those wiggins clamps! and yes thats is beautifull! exactaly how i want my except with a kazien speed top mount t3 manifold where did u find that???

 

[Zmann42087]

oh yeah im in love with those wiggins clamps! and yes thats is beautifull! exactaly how i want my except with a kazien speed top mount t3 manifold where did u find that???

Thats the work of Dent Sport Garage. A small shop with a very big reputation.

 

[cait sith]

Front mounts are fine for lapping days if you can control yourself, and not get a 4 inch thick jumbo super intercooler.

My GSX ran fine with my Apexi FMIC setup lap after lap after lap. Granted, I have a massive external oil cooler, but coolant temps were nothing to be worried about with a drilled thermostat and a Koyo radiator. Ducting is crucial if you want to do a proper (thin) FMIC setup.

If anything was baking, it was my brakes. Nothing like burning out a set of porterfield R4E's in one session, then bleeding the hell out of the brakes in attempts to get decent pedal feel back. Duct them brakes!

If you're going on faster tracks (such as Watkins Glen/Pocono/etc) I'd definitely put a tranny cooler on the car. Building a transmission cooler would be around.... 300 bucks for a Setrab cooler, lines, and pump. Maybe a another 50 or so.

 

[schemauer]

I have a tranny cooler on my track car if anyone needs ideas.

That air/water intercooler looks cool and all, but it that a viable option for anything but a drag car?

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

schemaur, How did you do your tranny cooler setup.

 

[mitsu-luver]

I have a tranny cooler on my track car if anyone needs ideas.

That air/water intercooler looks cool and all, but it that a viable option for anything but a drag car?

ok first off water is way better heat reducer than air, water is the best heat reducer right next to wax . now i know u are going off what youve heard ### every bodys saying it.

air/air
-very simple design
-low maintanence
-lower cost
-thermal efficiency potential not as great unless u get a godzilla 4" thick fmic that u have
to cut ## bumper and get rid of ## crash beam for
Water/air
-opposite of the above
-better throttle response
-lower boost pressure drop
-less compressor surge
-can exceed 100% thermal efficiency!

 

[schemauer]

No, I'm not going off of what "everyone" is saying.

All I'm asking is if anyone has used that air/water setup on a track car in at least 30 min to 45 min track sessions repeatedly for a full day. Mitsu-lover it sounds like you have??

 

[schemauer]

Tranny cooler:
Core is located driver's side front corner. Pump is inside the car on the passenger side footwell. There are two fittings welded to the tranny. A send fitting at the bottom passenger side and a return fitting on top off the tranny. Fluid is pumped out the bottom of the tranny - through a filter mounted on the passenger firewall - through the firewall to the pump inlet - back through the firewall and out to the core and then dumps in the top of the tranny.

I usually let the fluid warm up for about a lap and then turn it on. Tranny fluid temps never get above ~180 to 190 deg.

There are some pictures in post #25 here:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/road-course-autocross/272459-lessons-learned-about-road-racing.html

 

[Ludachris]

Tranny cooler:
Core is located driver's side front corner. Pump is inside the car on the passenger side footwell. There are two fittings welded to the tranny. A send fitting at the bottom passenger side and a return fitting on top off the tranny. Fluid is pumped out the bottom of the tranny - through a filter mounted on the passenger firewall - through the firewall to the pump inlet - back through the firewall and out to the core and then dumps in the top of the tranny.

I usually let the fluid warm up for about a lap and then turn it on. Tranny fluid temps never get above ~180 to 190 deg.

There are some pictures in post #25 here:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/road-course-autocross/272459-lessons-learned-about-road-racing.html

Do you have any pics of the inlet and outlet on the tranny?

 

[schemauer]

The inlet and outlet are simply AN fittings welded to the tranny.

One pic is of the send fitting at the bottom of the tranny.

One pic shows the fluid pump in the passenger footwell. You'll see I've fitted a quick disconnect there. I can then disconnect the line there and attach a drain hose so that I can simply turn on the pump and pump all the old fluid from the tranny without using the drain plug.

Another pic shows the return fitting on the top of the tranny. It also shows the hose coming up from the fluid send fitting, through the (gold) filter and then through the firewall to the fluid pump.

I can't take credit for the layout. This was how it was originally built by Archer Racing / Chrysler Motorsports (oxymoron?) in '92.

 

[drivemusicnow]

Anyone who road races should at least have a trans temp gauge...

Sometimes these transmissions get WAY HOT. to the tune of 300 degrees or more. An thats when you shear all the teeth off of 4th.

If you're seeing high temps, definitely pick up a tilton pump and a cooler. It's small, easy and under 350$ to set it up and it'll save your trans.