Good autox/road race tires and brake pads

[snowborder714]

I picked up a set of Evo wheels (17x8) recently and they are in need of new tires. I ran my 18x7.5 wheels with Kumho Ecsta tires for an autox, but figure having the wider/smaller rim would be better.

I am just not sure what I should be looking into. In the future I'll be getting some 17x9 wheels for racing, but these will be used in the mean time (no idea how long until I get the other wheels). I've read good thing about R compounds, but I'm not sure if I should use these when just starting out with road racing. I don't want to ruin a good set of tires by flat spotting them or something. But I also don't have the budget to be spending a ton of money on tires.

In autox, I'm in SM because of my 16g and other mods. I'll just be starting out with HPDE's next season.

So, what do you guys recommend?

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

I have heard great things about the Nitto NT-01 tires. There are a lot of guys running them here at PIR and FIR and they love them.

 

[bvass]

Most of the SCCA autocross guys in AZ recommended the Dunlop Star Specs and The Hankook Ventus, and after reading this - Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec - Comparison Tests - Car and Driver

I got the Star Specs. I haven't raced them yet but they feel great on the street

 

[snowborder714]

I also looked into what Drew is running on his car and he has the Nitto NT-05's. Looks like some good options so far. Keep them coming guys!

 

[aaronmatusz]

My NT-01s warm up quick enough to use for auto-x, wear very slow and have plenty of grip.
I've been running the same set for three years now and might queeze a few more sessions out of 'em.
If can't afford dedicated auto-x AND track day tires, NT-01s are a good choice.

 

[snowborder714]

And if I wanted to buy dedicated track tires, which would you suggest? Just trying to weigh all of my options.

 

[ACM]

And if I wanted to buy dedicated track tires, which would you suggest? Just trying to weigh all of my options.

You actually can't run slicks on a Street Mod car, the tyres must be DOT approved which limits you (competitively) to Hoosier A6s or Kumho V710s. Everyone I know from my region runs either Hoosier R6s or Kumho V710s at the track, so unless you're chasing a championship it would seem that Kumho V710s work well for both autocross and road course ? Long autocrosses in hot weather play to R6's strengths, so depending on the temps you see in summer, that could be a viable alternative too, just don't try a 50 second autocross at 50*F on R6s

No idea about treaded tyres on a road course other than Hoosier Wets, but they are completely unsuitable for any use other than rain.

I've autocrossed Star Specs on an X - masses of grip for a street tyre, but not compared to A6/V710s; I run Hankook Ventus RS-2s as Street/double duty tyres - decent second string tyre, decent rain tyre, good wear rate and _cheap_

Charles

 

[UnsafeAtAnySpd]

I'll be running R6s on my race car.

 

[mschlanglv]

I have NT-01s for track/AX use, but would not recommend them for daily driving. I have 3 days on them so far, 2 on a miata and one on the talon. Throw in a few AX as well, and they still have >50% tread. Good stuff.

 

[snowborder714]

On the stock Evo wheel (according to people over on EvoM), I can use these size tires.

225/45/17 (I wouldn't go smaller)
235/45/17 (stock size)
245/40/17
245/45/17
255/40/17


These are the tires I'll be looking into.
Nitto NT-01
Nitto NT-05
Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Specs
Hankook Ventus R-s2
Hankook Ventus R-s3
Hoosier A6
Hoosier R6
Kumho V710
Kumho XS


The Hoosiers will probably be out, mainly because of price. Plus, they most likely wouldn't be able to be used for autox as the ones around here are usually pretty short. I've read good things about the V710's and it sounds like a lot of guys in here like the NT-01's and guys over on EvoM like the NT-05's.

I also need to figure out how wide I can safely go without rubbing. A lot of guys on the EvoM forum are running 255's on their stock wheels without any problems and have put them through a bunch of autox events along with daily and spirited driving. I do know our cars are different. I'm just not sure if I'd want to go that wide on an 8" wheel.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

I would really suggest for a street tire (IMO what you should be running starting out)

Good but cheap tires:

Kumho XS (has the HIGHEST dry grip as tested)
Star Specs (2nd highest dry grip, but much better wet grip than XS)

If you want a dedicated tire, pick up a set of used R6s, last a decent amount.

I use Hankook Ventus RS-2 only because they were on closeout from tirerack. My track wheels have take-off Hoosiers and RA1s on em.

I suggest going to the local tracks and see what everyone is running (most likey the 4 choices I have given you).

PS- I used 225/40/17 Hoosier R6s on the Evo wheels and they were square. When you put them next to a 235 tire they were larger. (Hoosiers run MUCH wider as typical race compounds do then street tires.) It would be damn impossible to fit 245 hoosiers on a evo wheel without spacers.

This is coming from experience with this exact setup....Front/Side/Rear pictures for fitment. Oh and included hilarious picture of that event losing my front lip.... I miss my gsx.

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[snowborder714]

If only the tracks were close enough to just go and observe...

What's your thoughts on the Nitto's?

 

[black_gst]

Hankook just cam out with the Ventus RS-3 and i think i read they have 30% better dry traction over the RS-2's

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Ive heard good things about them, but the biggest expense for consumables in track driving is tires, so many people either go cheaper and get Xs or dunlops, or go get hoosiers.

The thing is, ive heard a lot of good reviews about a lot of tires but with the XS and star spec being so cheap as a street tire, I dont see much past anything else for track use. And if your going to the track, RA1s or R6/A6 (yes the a6 is used by many for sprint races).

 

[krusty_9]

I ran 235/45/17 Dunlop Direzza Star Specs on Evo wheels after I badly flatspotted my Potenzas, and it was a night and day difference. I highly recommend them. Of course I DD and auto-x with them, but if you're going with a track only set of wheels, I'd probably go with v710s.

 

[daren_p]

Brian, I have no autox/road race experience but if you end up going the street tire route, I'd defently second looking into the new Kumho XS (well not all that new now). I had the MX's before & while they were a great tire, I think the XS's are a much better tire. I have no direct comparison as the MX's were on the car when it was fwd & I swapped to the XS's during the awd swap.

I can say the XS's seem to have stupied amounts of grip for a street tire. I've launched the car multiple times, 4500 launch control, with around 5 lbs of boost & I get zero wheel spin if the road has any kind of heat in it (don't even seem to spin at night with the warmer summer roads). As for cornering grip, most of the time you won't be able to break them lose on public roads.

These tires seem to offer a tonn of grip for a street tire & the nice thing is their about the cheepest you can get that offer this level of grip. When I was looking for new tires the Star Specs looked like a great choice as well but at the time it was something like $200 more for my required size, so it wasn't worth it for me.

For a non street tire, I'm sure the Hoosiers will do the trick. If their anything like their drag radials, they get super sticky with only small amounts of heat.

 

[kainam00]

I've ran 245/40/17 on my E36 M3 on a 17x8 Kosei K1 wheel, and the size was just right.

Having a tire that's too wide for the wheel will actually cause them to be less responsive and possibly even have less traction because of the way your contact patch will be shaped.

Considering you are just starting out, I would not get R-comps. They tend to be less forgiving and hide bad driving habits, making it harder to learn. Street tires are cheap and last a lot longer... and when you get R-comps you can still use the streets for hardcore rainy days and practice.

The Dunlop Direzza Z1 SS is by far my favorite tire. I've had... 3 or 4 sets of them in different sizes and put them through every sort of environment. Can't go wrong with those.

 

[snowborder714]

Thanks for the input Daren! I'm not sure which way I want to go (streets vs. R compounds). My brother wants me to get streets so that he can steal the wheels

I've ran 245/40/17 on my E36 M3 on a 17x8 Kosei K1 wheel, and the size was just right.

Having a tire that's too wide for the wheel will actually cause them to be less responsive and possibly even have less traction because of the way your contact patch will be shaped.

That's what I was leaning towards was the 245's. The 255's seem like they'd just be too big, even though a lot of the Evo guys are running them. Unless someone on here has experience with 255's on an 8" wheel.

They tend to be less forgiving and hide bad driving habits, making it harder to learn.

This was one thing in the back of my mind that I wasn't sure about, but thanks for mentioning it. I obviously don't want to start off with bad habits, but wasn't sure if having the R compounds would encourage bad habits or not. Anyone else agree or disagree with this statement?

The Dunlop Direzza Z1 SS is by far my favorite tire.

And another set of tires to add to the list. I had read a bunch of people on EvoM liked these as well, but not nearly as many as the Nitto's or Star Specs. If only I was able to buy a few and test them out!

 

[kainam00]

And another set of tires to add to the list. I had read a bunch of people on EvoM liked these as well, but not nearly as many as the Nitto's or Star Specs. If only I was able to buy a few and test them out!

SS = Star Spec

The tires I'm talking about are the Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec, so we're talking about the same tires.

I've had Nittos on my cars before and wasn't terribly happy with them, their compounds don't seem nearly as good as Hankook / Bridgestone / Dunlop. I haven't tried their newer stuff, and the reviews seem to be pretty decent... but I'd still take the Dunlops

 

[snowborder714]

Ah, most people I saw didn't refer to them as Direzza Z1, but just Star Spec.

 

[everbruin]

255 on 17x8 was ok for me; no rubbing on low offset rim.
255 on 17x9 +25 offset is my better, no rub setup.
dunlop z1* i like more than kumho xs: better wet, dry grip is similar enough to me
i also like hankook rs3, another very fast street tire dry, unsure when wet

 

[Scott McIntyre]

I obviously don't want to start off with bad habits, but wasn't sure if having the R compounds would encourage bad habits or not. Anyone else agree or disagree with this statement?

Yes, it's true. Running (lower grip) street tires forces you to learn to be smooth, which is key for fast times. The high grip level of r-compounds lets you get away with throwing the car around and can cause you to develop bad habits while first learning.

That's not to say you can't learn to drive properly by starting out on r-comps. It just takes more discipline than most of us have.

 

[snowborder714]

255 on 17x8 was ok for me; no rubbing on low offset rim.
255 on 17x9 +25 offset is my better, no rub setup.

What offset on the 17x8 wheels?
I know a 255 would be more ideal on a 9" wide wheel for sure. Just trying to keep my options open

Yes, it's true. Running (lower grip) street tires forces you to learn to be smooth, which is key for fast times. The high grip level of r-compounds lets you get away with throwing the car around and can cause you to develop bad habits while first learning.

That's not to say you can't learn to drive properly by starting out on r-comps. It just takes more discipline than most of us have.

I have a feeling I'll have much more things to focus on and don't want to get sucked into any bad habits. I'll definitely keep this in mind and will look into street tires a bit more heavily than R compounds.

 

[kainam00]

I have a feeling I'll have much more things to focus on and don't want to get sucked into any bad habits. I'll definitely keep this in mind and will look into street tires a bit more heavily than R compounds.

It's also more than just bad habits. The sticker the tire, the more "edgy" it is, meaning that the transition from having 100% grip to 0 grip is very sudden, leaving a lot less room for error. Seeing how it's your first season of HPDE, you will spend a lot of it finding limits... limits of the suspension, tires, brakes, and so on at particular places on particular tracks. Having a setup that is forgiving to mistakes is key here because -

a) It will encourage you to drive 100% and try different things.
b) It will allow you to not wreck your car

I'll give you an example of point a - I was at Gingerman raceway last April. First track day of the year in my M3... it's cold and rainy. I'm following a buddy of mine (Paul - teamilluminata.com) in his Legacy wagon. He is flooring it through corners getting 4 wheel drifts on his crappy all-seasons... I'm having a hard time keeping up with him on the Direzza Star Specs because I'm only driving 80%, since I know that 101% would send me for a spin in a hurry, learning some, but not really being fast. Star Specs in heavy rain on a torquey RWD car are what I'd call "edgy".

That, and I think it's a waste of money to use R-comps in a non-competitive environment

Slightly off topic, but what are you doing for pads? I think it's the most often overlooked part of the setup for people going from AutoX courses to road courses. A good set of track pads will make you faster than R-comps and actually save you money in the long run since they last a lot better under hard use.

 

[snowborder714]

Good points. I especially like the one about not wrecking the car

I haven't overlooked pads, but know that my brakes will probably be less than ideal for road racing. This is another thing that's in my head that will probably need attention pretty soon. I'm running stock 2 piston calipers, Powerslot rotors, and Axxis Metal Master pads. I know they won't last very long, but I'm hoping to get at least one day out of them. Unless you think they'll disappear within a few touches of the brakes? If so, what would you recommend?