Going to put my motor back together.

[packinkimber45]

Hello everyone. I took my motor out 2 years ago and due to funds and having a baby I have not gotten to continue what I started. This whole time the motor has been sitting upside down on the engine stand covered by plastic.

I took off the oil pan/front case/water pump/crank/ and bearings the day the motor was pulled. Do I need to flush the motor out for any reason? For example since it sat for two years and all the water and coolant from the water pipes has dried, do i need to start with all new pipes and such or flush?

Would there be corrosion in the motor and pipes from sitting that long? Any other things I should consider doing before installing new parts on the motor since it has been sitting this long?

I did not take the head/ turbo/intake and exhaust manifold/pistons/and rods out. I dont plan to either. What I am doing is all new main/rod bearings, oem crank, 90 oil housing, oem front case/oil pump, oem water pump, oem timing belt, eliminate bs. Thanks in advance.

 

[BogusSVO]

from sitting that long, I would be worried about rust in the cylinder bores, I would pop the head off and take a look and do what is needed to put it back right.

 

[packinkimber45]

from sitting that long, I would be worried about rust in the cylinder bores, I would pop the head off and take a look and do what is needed to put it back right.

Thanks. I sprayed oil in the cylinder walls under the pistons while the motor has been upside down, would that have been enough to make sure the bore has not rusted? Is that really an issue I should be worried about, I wasnt really planning on taking the head off. Anyone else feel this should be a concern? Thanks again.

 

[asb2106]

very much so.. if there is even alittle rust in there, you wasted all your time and money cause you will be tearing it out, and then getting some machine work done.

For the price, you may as well bring the short block to a machinist and have them hot tank it and hone the cylinder walls. That way they can inspect it and give you alittle more piece of mind when you put it all back together

 

[livedsm4g63]

so did you say that you already put new bearings in? or they are going in?

 

[92blutalon]

why dont you take the block to the machine shop

 

[packinkimber45]

I am going to pull the head. After thinking about it, the last thing I want is something to go wrong because I didnt take the time to take the head off and do some inspections. I hope all is well when I pull the head. I really dont want to take the block apart any more than I have to plus I'm on limited funds.

so did you say that you already put new bearings in? or they are going in?

I just got my rod bearings in today and waiting for my main bearings to come in. So to answer your question they will be going in. As far as internals, the crank and bearings are all I pulled out of the block.

 

[95GSXBLUR]

At minimum, with a motor tear down, you'll always want to replace the head gasket and piston rings to make sure you have solid compression.

Do it right do it once. You want to make sure that both deck surfaces are flat. (head and block) Make sure you get the rods and pistons checked out if you plan on reusing them. It would suck to stick everything back together and have one rod or piston out of tolerance.

ARP Head studs are a huge plus if you plan on making more power than stock. A cylinder hone would be nice as well to help freshen up the engine.

Dude, you might as well since you've got it out. Don't cheap out on the small stuff or machine work. Build yourself a nice reliable engine that you won't have to pull out again for something you skimped out on.

 

[packinkimber45]

Since the rod and pistons are in the block and my view is somewhat limited how can I tell if my rod bolts have stretched at the head where it meets the bolt? Also to my understanding I can reuse my rod and main bolts as long as they are good. How can I tell? I'm sure I can do measurements for the main bolts right? How about the rod bolts, how can I tell or measure it if its still on the rods?

Also the car is suppose to have ARP headstuds, how do I tell its in spec for me to reuse? Where can I get all those specs and especially what torque value I use for the ARP since I am reusing?

Also the motor stand we put it on, the arm that holds the engine is not long enough. I had a h### of a time taking the crank out, I dont think I can place the new one without messing anything up due to the space limitation I have from the engine to the mount. If I turn the motor right side up and just let the pistons hang in place... is this ok? Will they pull out from the bottom of the block or damage them from hanging? Reason I ask is, I am going to get ahold of the right stand and arm so I will have to keep the motor suspended in the air for me to transfer to the other stand. I'm trying to get away from having to place a good crank in the motor and risk damaging the journals to keep the pistons in place. Any ideas? Sorry, I must seem really retarded. Hahaha

 

[BogusSVO]

your a 1g 6 bolt, your rod and main bolts should be fine, unless they have been over torqued.

why did you pull the crank? did you spin a bearing? if so then yo will have to pull the whole engine apart and clean everything, including removing all the oil galley plugs/squirters and clean clean clean

 

[packinkimber45]

At minimum, with a motor tear down, you'll always want to replace the head gasket and piston rings to make sure you have solid compression.

Do it right do it once. You want to make sure that both deck surfaces are flat. (head and block) Make sure you get the rods and pistons checked out if you plan on reusing them. It would suck to stick everything back together and have one rod or piston out of tolerance.

ARP Head studs are a huge plus if you plan on making more power than stock. A cylinder hone would be nice as well to help freshen up the engine.

Dude, you might as well since you've got it out. Don't cheap out on the small stuff or machine work. Build yourself a nice reliable engine that you won't have to pull out again for something you skimped out on.

I will be replacing the head gasket. When I bought the car I only drove the car around for a few hundred miles. The previous owner had the block, pistons, and rods checked out by a machine shop and told me everything was good. It had a new oem head gasket and arp head studs installed before I bought it. I'm not sure if he replaced the rings, but when I did the compression check before I took it apart I was getting 160 on all cylinders. Do I just take the arp studs to the machine shop to make sure they are still in specs to be reused? Thanks.

your a 1g 6 bolt, your rod and main bolts should be fine, unless they have been over torqued.

why did you pull the crank? did you spin a bearing? if so then yo will have to pull the whole engine apart and clean everything, including removing all the oil galley plugs/squirters and clean clean clean

How do I tell if they have been over torqued?

Pulling the motor started out as a simple maintenance job. I wanted to replace my t belt, water pump, oil pump/front case, and eliminate balance shafts. Part of the reason I pulled it out was also I noticed my oil pressure on the stock gauge seemed low, I thought it could be a malfunctioning oil sender due to the car's age. Wanted to make sure the oil pump was good so I decided to change the oil pump. Once I had it out and apart, I figured I was already in there so I wanted to check out the bearings for main and rods. Noticed there was a gouge on one of my main crank journals. Didnt want to risk it and decided to get a new oem crank, so I did. Ordered oem main and rod bearings just recently and now I need to put back all together. Like I mentioned in my last post the car had good compression before I took it apart. There was nothing wrong with the car other than it seemed like it had low oil pressure. The car ran good and pulled good. Nothing major atleast was wrong with the car except a few minor things. My rear balance shaft was out of phase so that got fixed shortly after purchasing the car. This was before I took the motor out. Also the car had an idling surge issue. After taking the motor out I replaced the fiav from my n/a 93 eclipse which will hopefully cure the issue.

I need to transfer the motor to another engine stand due to space limitation I have between the block the stand mount. I dont have enough space to place the crank back in the motor without the possibility the crank journals getting scratched because of how much space I have to work with on the stand the motor is in. When I turn the motor right side up since it is upside down, will the piston go down the cylinder on it's own and can it go through the bottom of the block?

 

[packinkimber45]

Can anyone answer a couple of my questions that were not answered from previous posts. I've never done this type of work in depth as I am getting into. I dont want to screw anything up. Thanks in advance.

 

[ziggo0]

If you look at the bolt in question closely, check to see if the threads go thin or are ate up. You can find a thread gauge at a local hardware store and it sorta presses into the threads so you can see if they are stretched or not. However, if the threads dont look thined out or chewed off then the bolt is most likely good (doesn't mean you shouldn't check it!).

The pistons can't go through the bottom of the block but they can go through the top. I would say that they wouldn't fall out if it was upside down but it seems kinda risky...that piston falls and slams a skirt or something on the ground and it's junked. It would be best to figure out how to get the crank in the block and bolt up the rods if thats your only option.

 

[packinkimber45]

From the feedback I have gotten from all of you I took the head off last night and snapped pictures of my cylinder walls. Sorry there are lots of them . How do they look? Should I take the block to the machine shop? Replace rings? I'm trying not to spend any more money than I already have due to very limited funds, but I do want this car to be reliable. When I first bought the car the previous owner told me he had the block, rods, and pistons checked. They turned out to be in spec. I dont beleive the rings were replaced, however when I did my compression check before I took the car apart I got 160 all across the board at full temp. The motor has a new sbr stage 1 head with 1mm oversized valves on it with arp head studs. I took the head off last night by myself with the exhaust and intake manifolds in place. Since I did it by myself i wanted assurance I didnt screw anything up by using the cherry picker to assist me pulling it. On the way up the head got binded on the studs since it was not completely level. The head rested on the studs being binded for a few minutes, I hope I did not screw anything up? Anything I should check for? The studs look straight and did not notice any cracks on the head of block from it. What direction should I go from here. Thanks.

Here are the pics...

Exhaust side

Piston 1

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Piston 2

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Piston 3

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Piston 4

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Intake side

Piston 1

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Piston 2

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Piston 3

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Piston 4

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Wrist pin side going towards rear crankshaft

Piston 1

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Piston 2

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Piston 3

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Piston 4

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Wrist pin side going towards timing belt side

Piston 4

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Piston 3

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piston 2

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Piston 1

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I also have my cylinder head sitting on two pieces of wood with the intake and exhaust holding it up is this ok? I dont know if there is any not do's with them like cranks should not be layed on the ground. Thanks.

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[BoredDSM]

Everything looks pretty good. Piston 4 looks like valve contact but I think it is just a reflection from the gunk in there but double check just to make sure. Cylinder walls have a little rush but some WD-40 and a rag might clean some of it up.

As for the head I would place it on a flat surface preferably with cardboard under it. Sitting like that stresses the bolts on the manifolds and the exhaust ones have a tendency to break if they were never replaced so keep an eye out for that.

 

[packinkimber45]

Everything looks pretty good. Piston 4 looks like valve contact but I think it is just a reflection from the gunk in there but double check just to make sure. Cylinder walls have a little rush but some WD-40 and a rag might clean some of it up.

As for the head I would place it on a flat surface preferably with cardboard under it. Sitting like that stresses the bolts on the manifolds and the exhaust ones have a tendency to break if they were never replaced so keep an eye out for that.

I will look into that piston 4 to make sure I'm not getting valve contact. As far as the little rust in the bore, you say some wd40 and a rag. Do I need to take out the whole piston assembly to do that? Wiping down the cylinder with a rag, will that harm or possibly scratched the cylinder walls?

With the head, the bolts look like they are newer. How exactly am I going to be able to lay it flat with the intake and exhaust on it? The manifolds will still be the ones to contact a flat surface? I wasnt really planning on taking the manifolds off, I dont want to have to buy new gaskets and it would be hard to break the bolts and nuts free with the head not on the motor.

So should I re-ring the pistons? Any machine work I need to get done? After the previous owner got the motor together he sold the car probably within a month and I havent driven the car more than 600 miles. Thanks.

 

[firefighter]

You got the head off. You have taken the crank out .the engine is now pulled apart. But you don't want to do a major rebuild? Support the head alittle better. Get some two by fours under the head to take the weight off the manifolds place a layer of cardboard between the head and the wood.Remove the pistons now you can mount the block correctly.You don't have to worry about dropping the pistons or anything else. Use wd40 and steel wool to clean the cylinder bores. Remount your block correctly now start your rebuild . By the way after you clean your cylinders down with wd40 and steel wool you can use soap and water to clean the block ,just make sure you dry it completely and oil it up with a light oil.

Don't rering the pistons If you do you'll have to bore the cylinders to get them round again the rings will never seat.I doubt the head studs were over torque chances are you would destroy the head or block you really cant measure it .I say if in doubt throw it out. YOu can't have valve contact on just one piston. What will cause that is timming belt off. you might want to check your valves on the head to make sure none came in contact with the pistons.Just turn the head over and look at the valves.If they are bent they wont be sitting in the seats correctly( they will be bent).

 

[packinkimber45]

You got the head off. You have taken the crank out .the engine is now pulled apart. But you don't want to do a major rebuild? Support the head alittle better. Get some two by fours under the head to take the weight off the manifolds place a layer of cardboard between the head and the wood.Remove the pistons now you can mount the block correctly.You don't have to worry about dropping the pistons or anything else. Use wd40 and steel wool to clean the cylinder bores. Remount your block correctly now start your rebuild . By the way after you clean your cylinders down with wd40 and steel wool you can use soap and water to clean the block ,just make sure you dry it completely and oil it up with a light oil.

Don't rering the pistons If you do you'll have to bore the cylinders to get them round again the rings will never seat.I doubt the head studs were over torque chances are you would destroy the head or block you really cant measure it .I say if in doubt throw it out. YOu can't have valve contact on just one piston. What will cause that is timming belt off. you might want to check your valves on the head to make sure none came in contact with the pistons.Just turn the head over and look at the valves.If they are bent they wont be sitting in the seats correctly( they will be bent).

I know it sounds silly, I'm already there why not right? As much as I would like to I dont have the funds to do a major rebuild. Atleast I dont think I have enough money. Unless I completely misread your post, that is what I got out of it. Lol. I will get ahold of some 2x4's to support the head better.

I already got the motor mounted properly as I needed to previously. I guess the question is now, should I take the pistons and rods out to clean the cylinder walls? What about the little ridge above the piston in the cylinder walls, will I have to take that out? It doesnt feel very deep, but I dont want to damage my rings if I am not going to go with new rings. As far as the arp head studs they dont look stretched or damaged. Then again like you said there is no way for me to measure them, maybe take them to the machine shop to see what they think as far as reusing them.

Just went out to the garage and turned the cams over both intake and exhaust and it looks like I might have some bent valve . How much more is it going to cost me to go further into a build? All machining procedures and costs and any other items I already dont have.

I have the following brand new.

Oem mitsu water pump
Oem mitsu front case/ oil pump and new bolts
timing components (tensioner arm/auto tensioner/pulleys/idler pulleys/bsek)
90 oil filter housing
Oil cooler kit
Oem mitsu crank (brand new not reconditioned)
ACL Race main and rod bearings
Oem main bolts
And some minor random items.

What else is left to do a full rebuild of my short block? Pistons, rods, rings? How about machining or any other procedures I should think about to finish it up? What will the rest cost me? I have roughly about $1200 left and I still have to get 4 new tires.

 

[Nati0nalxCrisis]

You have to look around man, you can find some pretty good deals most days on the things that your looking for.

If it were up to me I'd save up for a little longer, you've had the thing down for two years, whats another month or two going to do you know?

The pistons look pretty gunky, I mean you could clean them, but why not get new ones, why not get new everything if you can right? Especially sense you've gone new on other items.

IMHO I would save longer and just do it all, then you'll have a good solid motor with all new parts, nothings old so its going to be more reliable you know?

 

[packinkimber45]

You have to look around man, you can find some pretty good deals most days on the things that your looking for.

If it were up to me I'd save up for a little longer, you've had the thing down for two years, whats another month or two going to do you know?

The pistons look pretty gunky, I mean you could clean them, but why not get new ones, why not get new everything if you can right? Especially sense you've gone new on other items.

IMHO I would save longer and just do it all, then you'll have a good solid motor with all new parts, nothings old so its going to be more reliable you know?

Trust me I understand where you are coming from but aside from limited funds, I am also in a time crunch. My car needs to get back on the road asap. I'm trying to get the car back on the road as economically as I can without cutting corners but doing it right. Thanks for your advice though.

Any other takers on my next possible course of action without doing a full machining to the block and getting new internals? How are my cylinder walls? Thanks.

 

[BogusSVO]

the bores look decent from what I can see in the pics.

if you place the boards under the head , make sure they are padded well, the weight of the head/manis can/will bend the valves that protrude below the HG surface.

you may as well pop the pistons, and get a gallon of diesel fuel, and srub the carbon off the tops of the pistons
a new set of rings will not hurt, and you should be able to get a set of NPR stock replacemnts on the cheap.
also you should be able to rent a "hone" from Advanced auto parts or auto zone and put a light hone in the bores. You will need a decent drill for this.

 

[packinkimber45]

the bores look decent from what I can see in the pics.

if you place the boards under the head , make sure they are padded well, the weight of the head/manis can/will bend the valves that protrude below the HG surface.

you may as well pop the pistons, and get a gallon of diesel fuel, and srub the carbon off the tops of the pistons
a new set of rings will not hurt, and you should be able to get a set of NPR stock replacemnts on the cheap.
also you should be able to rent a "hone" from Advanced auto parts or auto zone and put a light hone in the bores. You will need a decent drill for this.

I placed a piece of card board under the head, I hope that will suffice if not I will add more. Unfortunately after inspecting my cylinders again today I found a couple scratches that might be a concern. Took out all the pistons/rods and taking the block and pistons to the machine shop to get checked out.

Thank you for all the responses I have received! I will post an update after my trip to the machine shop. Thanks again.

 

[BogusSVO]

some reading for you..........

give thanks to Big Woo for this write up!!
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/303225-engine-machine-work-explained.html

also.....
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...0613-why-not-let-your-head-belt-surfaced.html

and since the head is off you may want to do this mod....
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341028-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod.html

 

[packinkimber45]

Took my block to the machine shop to make sure i was in specs and to have scratches I found in the cylinder walls looked at. Unfortunately the machine shop told me my piston to wall clearance is .0035. To my understanding I am 1 1/2 thousandths over specs. They told me I will need to bore the block. They asked me what horsepower and boost levels are my goals. When I told them 350-400 hp and 15-20 psi(10psi until I have proper supporting mods), they told me I need to go with forged pistons. I have been researching 1g rods/2g pistons and it seems like people have taken this set up to where my hp level and boost level I want to be in. I also researched evo 9's pistons on 1g rods and info I have seen on this site is they are even tougher than the 2g pistons. So by the info I got from the machine shop, the goals I have for the car for the time being are not ideal for the 1g rods/2g pistons or evo 9 pistons on 1g rods? I want to do this right however my budget is becoming limited by the prices for new forged pistons (ross, wiseco) and eagle rods. I dont know what to do, I am lost and overwhelmed. What should I do? Also, if I have the rods machine to fit 2g pistons or evo 9's it will cost me nearly $200 and not including reconditioning them. On that note I want a daily driven car that will be reliable and be able to have fun in. I spoke to dsmgraveyard today and the evo 9 pistons are $389 with rings. If I send my rods to them as a core I can get 1g rods and evo 9 already hung and reconditioned for $575.