Gm Maf & T

[Dragon TalonTsi]

I have searched and searched on ask, google, and other places, and I cant find a single thing about it. Just reviews and pics. I know the DSM Stock MAF is very,very restrictive, that is why I want to upgrade. I can't get past 4 1/2 grand in my car while I am boosting, no matter what. I am getting fuel cut bad. I have no boost leaks, all my mods are less than 5k old, and I have done all the proper maintenance possible, and that pisses me off that I have put this much money into it and I can't even enjoy all of my mods to their full potenial ! Can anyone tell me where to get a GM MAF and the Translator for it? Any and all help would be appreciated. Thanks....

 

[01QuadDak]

Extremepsi for the translator, and a junkyard for the MAF, its off of a 96+ just about any GM product. Or you can buy the complete kit from them.

 

[Guest]

A lot of info can be found here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174055


You can find a GM maf and translator at most of the site vendors. You can buy a gm maf from a vendor, ebay, or a local junkyard. The link i posted above has all of the vehicles you can find the GM maf in.

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

Extremepsi for the translator, and a junkyard for the MAF, its off of a 96+ just about any GM product. Or you can buy the complete kit from them.

Isnt that ironic? I also own a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP SC, wow , I would have never saw that one coming. I would prefer to buy the kit though, brand new, never used, you know, so I could break it in.

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

I am hoping now that this will help with my fuel cut problems.... hopefully...

 

[Quasimondo]

I think you should check your pipes and your AFC settings again. While the 1G MAS' are restrictive, the 2G MAS' usually flow quite well. I certainly wouldn't expect one of those to hit fuel cut with the turbocharger you have. How much boost are you pushing when you hit fuel cut, and what are your AFC settings?

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

I have no boost leaks at all. I did have a major one at the TB, and by the IC pipe, but I had fixed those. I hooked the boost leak tester up, and no leaks. It is so much stronger than the stock T-25 though. I noticed the difference right away. I am only pushing about 15 psi right now, anything higher I feel I would blow a hose or coupler apart if I went higher cause of the fuel cut thing. My Mech and I might do the Blow through setup, cause I vent my BOV now, with the Stock MAF. And I know what you are thinking, no, it doesnt leak at all. It is on almost the hardest setting, nice and crisp too.

 

[brute]

Your problems may all be due to the fact that you're venting the BOV. If you do decide to go the GM MAF way, get one at a junkyard. MAF's either work or they don't. A new one is just going to cost a whole lot more. Most vendors sell them for like $70-100, which is outrageous. They are in the classifieds on this site once in a while, in fact, I think there's one in there right now (recently posted I mean). Or you could go to a You-Pull-It type place and get one for like $20. Don't waste your money.

 

[Scott_S]

gm started using the mass air sensors in 94 actually. I dont see how you are getting fuel cut with your mods because of your stock mass air sensor. Something doesnt add up

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

Yeah, I know something doesn't add up, and your telling me?! My car has less than 100k on it, I rebuild the head and the block up, get it ported and polished, get a machined custom valvetrain, the whole nine, and all my other mods, my new Evo III, and all my other mods, and I cant enjoy them to their full potential. I hate it right now, I can't even go to the track for that matter. My buddy has an SRT-4, and my other buddy has a Stock EVO 8, adn they both ripp the crap out of me, on or off the line. I know with my mods and my setup I could easily wipe the floor with them, but I can't with the fuel cut crap...

 

[brute]

Try returning the BOV to recirculate mode and going from there. After that, double check all your installations... Maybe you forgot something simple. We've all done it.

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

Yeah, the only thing is that the 4.5" INJEN Intake does not have the recirc inlet. If they do, please let me know, if not, I will buy the DEJON TOOL that has it on their Intake. It just doesn't seem like it should be causing that much trouble. Oh well then...

 

[lordnikon_04]

go to slowboy racing and get their entire blowthrough setup. comes with uic, maf, and translator. and they usually get them to you within a couple of days. just get the pipe flanged correctly for your bov and you will do great.

 

[tallywacker]

I didn't see anywhere in your mods list that you have upgraded fuel injectors. That is most likely cause of your fuel cut problem. Your using your safc to get near or totally max out the injectors. Your problem won't be fixed until you upgrade you injectors the GM MAF is a great mod but not the direction you need to go to solve your problem.

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

Well, from what I have read and been through, it is not my injectors. It is the ECU, Fuel cut is not a mech thing, it is a tech thing programmed into the ECU from day 1. Here is the 1000 FAQ's on DSM:

http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/

How do I prevent fuel cut?
I have [injectors/fuel pump/fuel rail] installed, but I still get fuel cut! Is there a fix?
Search for this topic now!

This question comes up a lot, mostly because people misunderstand what fuel cut is for, and why it occurs at all. For the answer to this, read this chapter of the ECU Primer.

The simple answer is that because fuel cut is pre-programmed into the ECU, there is no method of disabling it. There are no modifications that can do so, aside from an ECU upgrade that eliminates fuel cut. Upgraded fuel pumps, injectors, and fuel pressure regulators do nothing to avoid or eliminate fuel cut. NOTHING.

That being said, there are some methods (some cheap, some not) of postponing fuel cut. All the methods work on one principle: fooling the ECU into thinking there is less air entering the engine than, in fact, there is. This can be done by adding unmetered air, or by changing the sensor inputs used by the ECU to determine air mass. Of course, these methods usually mean the engines run leaner than stock. Again, read this section of the ECU primer for details.

Methods include:

removing the lower honeycomb from the MAS. See the FAQ Locator (look in the "Intake" section) and Jim McKenna's MAS modification page for more information.
'Gutting' (cutting out) the lower section of the MAS. This modification was first marketed by HKS, improved upon by Roger Hanson, Eric Typpo and Jim McKenna, and recently re-popularized by Al Blaha. This involves cutting out the entire lower section of the MAS - delaying fuel cut, but making the engine run leaner - and altering the intake air temperature sensor to compensate. Mike Jackson also does this - read his information here.
plumbing in a secondary air intake after the MAS. Use extreme caution!
the fuel cut defenser (FCD) by HKS
the dime-store fuel cut defenser (DSFCD) for 1G or 2G. Use appropriate caution.
fuel management computers, like a VPC or PMS. See the Glossary for details.
An ECU upgrade from Technomotive is the only way to really eliminate fuel cut.

I am trying to get an ECU upgrade from Technomotive, but they wont email me back, and they dont leave a number to call. I am getting the GM MAF-T, both and I might do the Blow through setup, but a good upgrade would be them. Can anyone else help me on this one? Thanks,

 

[2G_RFF_GST]

My Mech and I might do the Blow through setup, cause I vent my BOV now, with the Stock MAF.

If you're venting your car will run like crap. You need to either recirculate or do a blow-through set-up somewhere in your UICP. The 2G MAS isn't that bad, but you need to recirculate. If you want to vent then run a GM MAF with the MAFT set-up.

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213196

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

Yeah, thanks everybody. I think I have all I need now to do this....

 

[drivemusicnow]

Well, from what I have read and been through, it is not my injectors. It is the ECU, Fuel cut is not a mech thing, it is a tech thing programmed into the ECU from day 1. Here is the 1000 FAQ's on DSM:

http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/

How do I prevent fuel cut?
I have [injectors/fuel pump/fuel rail] installed, but I still get fuel cut! Is there a fix?
Search for this topic now!

Blah blah blah

I am trying to get an ECU upgrade from Technomotive, but they wont email me back, and they dont leave a number to call. I am getting the GM MAF-T, both and I might do the Blow through setup, but a good upgrade would be them. Can anyone else help me on this one? Thanks,

Fuel cut is a programmed in SAFETY FACTOR. It basically is there to make sure you don't eff up your motor by overrunning your fuel delivery capabilities... That FAQ is assuming you've already done the fuel mods neccesary to support the horsepower.

Do the math. You are running a 255 wally, without a regulator, with stockinjectors, while trying to run 15 psi on an evo 16g. This means you FPR is getting overrun, and you're base fuel pressure is probably huge (55+ psi maybe?). Then, because the stock raises 1 psi for every 1psi of boost, when you get to higher RPMs your fuel pump is trying to push WAY to much pressure (70 psi??), thus cutting WAY down on actual fuel delivered. Higher fuel pressure = Less flow from the pump. Stock injectors also just won't cut it for fuel delivery.


This is entirely a fuel issue, and NOT the fact that you're running a 1g MAF... there are people who run FAST times with a 1g maf.
I suggest DSMlink because you'd be able to clamp the 1g maf off and use it to estimate airflow after you overrun the 1g maf, or use a 2g and adapter. MUCH less expensive and just as accurate. (actually more accurate than if you use the blow through MAF-T...) Spending 600 on DSMlink, versus the 250 a MAF-T, plus 200 a technomotive ECU, plus SAFC = more money and fewer abilities than DSMLink.

 

[tallywacker]

It is your injectors. when the stock injectors reach their max the ECU cuts fuel before this can happen. the SAFC tricks the ECU into thinking whatever you set it for, but if you dont have injectors that can handle the computer trickery all it will do is hit the max rate on your injectors and cause fuel cut. You really do need some-sort of logging device to record what is going on in your engine when that happens. Then you will be able to tune your car correctly, get fuel map trickery correct with the SAFC, and stomp you neon buddy into the ground. I've been around the block more than one day tuning these unreliable obssesions. Don't go stricktly off what is says in the faq because your situation is different. I've already learned all these lessons the hard way hehe.

You dont have to listem if you don't want to but your going to buy other junk which may help improve your car and still be hitting fuel cut because your injectors are maxed out. There are also way to completely get rid of fuel cut but choosing them is not the best answer if you dont want your engine to melt down because of being too lean. HKS makes a fuel cut defencer, the GM translator has a dip switch to turn off fuel cut, and yes you can get your Eprom in your ECU flashed to get of it. Remember though its a safety feature.

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

I do understand what all of you are saying, Drivemusicnow and Tallywacker, but the thing is I have read that once you install the DSM Link, you are no longer capable of a emissions passing vehicle. I already have the SAFC II, just not the GM MAFT kit, nor the rest of the fuel system. I am from INDY, but I live in NC, where they do emissions here now. I know half of the mods I have on my car, they wont be "emissions ready," but our 98's wont pass emissions regardless. The DMV and my Mech had said something about the OBD II readings that our cars give out. They dont have the capabilities of doing the full test, because MITSU and CHRYCO did not fully program or tune it. To get a waiver to pass emissions, it is a pain in the A$$, but I dont have to worry about any tests, so I can run whatever I want. But, I do take into consideration of what all of you are saying. I will try and search around for other answers. These comments are really what I was looking for. Thanks for helping a fellow DSMer out....

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

And Tallywacker, you are in the ARMY? HOOAH, I am a MARINE, so at least we have something in our common interests. Where are you stationed? (sorry for getting off track here)

 

[Scott_S]

save it for a pm buddy

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

Why dont you mind your own business. That is not helping me, and I am the one that started the thread, so whatever. I said sorry for getting off track, it is just nice to finally see someone in the military, and not some one worried about everything like you. Just dont start nothing, there wont be nothing.

 

[tallywacker]

Im stationed in Darmstadt, Germany right out side of frankfurt. But right now im setting in the sandbox. I'll be out of iraq in about 6 more months

 

[dsm-onster]

You cannot prevent fuel cut w/ stock injectors...

You cannot run more boost than you have dialed in with your current injectors because the ecu is dumping fuel at 100%+ idc. When the ECU see airflow from the MAF that causes it to calculate 100% injector dutycycle, it cuts the injectors completely off. This is the fail-safe. NOT something that can be run often. A super-lean condition from fuel cut can destroy your engine. Welding temperatures are not good for cast aluminum pistons. When you get larger injectors and consequently compensate for their size w/ the safc, you are showing the ecu less air than actually enters the engine. This causes the ecu to add less fuel giving you the tune you want for injectors that flow more; AND this pushes back the likelyhood of fuel cut, as it takes MORE air to trigger 100% IDC.

I've run a hacked 1G maf to 22 psi. It all depends on the amount of airflow that is not read. The 1g maf flows just fine. Al Blaha went 10s w/ the stock 1g maf hacked... Hacking DOES NOT increase flow so much as it allows the maf not to overrun and drop hertz counts yielding a lower airflow reading. A lower airflow reading lends to a lean condition and detonation. Upgrading your MAF is not about increasing flow. It is about increasing the flow reading. If your maf can only read 30 lbs/min airflow w/out going irratic, then you can only run 300 horsepower of said maf. If you want to increase flow itself then get a bigger throttlebody. This is much more of a restriction. A system is only as good as it's largest restriction.