getting a head to turn 11'000 rpms

[just90gs]

So I can't post this where I should (Cylinder head & Short Block). So I guess I will ask hear. I have like 3 or 4 1g heads in the garage and want to get a head that will turn 11,000 RPM's what kinda parts still will I need to do so? I'm gonna start to port one of them tomarrow I have 1 of my 1g's ready on the short block side to do this.
Help if you can. Thanks

 

[toofast82]

Are you building you car to race Shep or something?
I would like to hear what the rest of your setup will consist of

I think the Kiggly springs can rev in that ballpark.
Kiggly Racing - kigglyracing.com
The rest of your valvetrain components will have to be top notch as well.

 

[kottyking]

What do you mean a head to "turn" 11,000 rpms. The only thing "turning" in a head would be the cams. Do you mean you wanna build a high reving head? If so, keep in mind your transmission won't last long at all so that something to think about.

I also forgot to mention be very careful porting the head. Its not as simple as it seems.

 

[just90gs]

I have a shep tranny.arp everything, bottom end is built rods pistons high volume iol pump BSE kit. If your asking what kinda fuel I'm running and turbo. It's a long list. no not trying to mess with shep thats to much thats guys got it down. I'm trying to make 9's in stock seats carpet and all...

 

[rEclipserGST]

Are you building you car to race Shep or something?
I would like to hear what the rest of your setup will consist of

Yea no joke. Why do you want to get up to 11,000 rpms? These cars are not s2000's. Please explain what your setup is and what exactly your trying to do with "11,000 rpms".

 

[SonySlave]

If you are really looking to have a solid 11k RPM capable head, this would be my parts list:

Kiggly Beehive Valve Springs and Retainers
Revised Rocker Arms from the Evo VIII and IX
BLE Solid Lifters
Stainless Steel Valves
Big cams that would even be worth a damn at 11k

This is of course pending you have a turbo that's big enough to make power in that rev range and an intake manifold and cams that will allow you to breathe in that rev range. You would also need a clutch that would even allow you to shift at that RPM. Missing a shift at 11k RPMs, even with the Kigglys, could throw rockers, etc. and kill your head. You would need to be very careful.

I have a few friends that are turning 10k, 10.5k, with stock valves, Kiggly Beehives, old style rocker arms, regular 3G lifters, and huge cams with no problems at all. But they have had their mishaps before and thrown rockers through their valve cover and other not so fun things.

As others have mentioned, we need more info about your setup and what you are really looking to do.

 

[Gamble97]

I didn't know you had a honda mitsu.....
Fast cars don't have to rev high. This is possibly the worst idea I've ever heard. Not to mention I really doubt your turbo will put out power until 11k rpm.

Strictly modified 2g awd is going 9.59 on a 35r shifting at 9200.

 

[rEclipserGST]

I didn't know you had a honda mitsu.....
Fast cars don't have to rev high. This is possibly the worst idea I've ever heard. Not to mention I really doubt your turbo will put out power until 11k rpm.

Strictly modified 2g awd is going 9.59 on a 35r shifting at 9200.

Why would you need to rev that high anyway? Your just going to spin your tires. Might as well just stop the madness right now. Build your motor & forget about the 11k thing. Its just...

 

[mindset]

I didn't know you had a honda mitsu.....
Fast cars don't have to rev high. This is possibly the worst idea I've ever heard. Not to mention I really doubt your turbo will put out power until 11k rpm.

Strictly modified 2g awd is going 9.59 on a 35r shifting at 9200.

I think you missed the part where he said he wanted a 9 second FWD. Awd is way easier.
Why is everyone being so negative? Let him do what he wants.

You pretty much need to build your head to the max like one of the above posts said. I think a safer goal would be a 10k RPM revving head. Think about it. 10k is still high. Keep us updated

 

[PIMking]

I have a shep tranny.arp everything, bottom end is built rods pistons high volume iol pump BSE kit. If your asking what kinda fuel I'm running and turbo. It's a long list. no not trying to mess with shep thats to much thats guys got it down. I'm trying to make 9's in stock seats carpet and all...

Plan on putting a FULL cage and chutes on it too? I know you will need a full cage to run that fast that will pass inspection of NHRA But I think 9's =s chutes too.

 

[SonySlave]

Plan on putting a FULL cage and chutes on it too? I know you will need a full cage to run that fast that will pass inspection of NHRA But I think 9's =s chutes too.

Parachute is require at 150mph or faster, which most, if not all, 9 second FWDs hit.

 

[95eclipser]

hey man its your car and your money and if you want to build it then do it bro.. i would say 11k is a lil risky and unpractical for your goal not to mention expensive even with you doing your own port work

maybe a 2.3 and a gt37r might be a way to go? idk

but it you do build the head keep us updated if you get there... and let us know how she goes down the track

ohh and look at a tilton clutch there in 1000 hp supras so they should hold... but you never no gl

 

[just90gs]

did I say I wanted to do this with a fwd no I just asked what parts I would be best for this. so please dont think I dont understand what I'm doing. I'm doing it with one of my 1g's I have three.. and I will keep you updated no problem. and thanks for the info.

 

[just90gs]

when you say big cams what range in size are you talking about 272 or bigger? and I know turbo and fuel make that all changes i'm asking what is needed to make it work not perform to it's highest level.

If you are really looking to have a solid 11k RPM capable head, this would be my parts list:

Kiggly Beehive Valve Springs and Retainers
Revised Rocker Arms from the Evo VIII and IX
BLE Solid Lifters
Stainless Steel Valves
Big cams that would even be worth a damn at 11k

This is of course pending you have a turbo that's big enough to make power in that rev range and an intake manifold and cams that will allow you to breathe in that rev range. You would also need a clutch that would even allow you to shift at that RPM. Missing a shift at 11k RPMs, even with the Kigglys, could throw rockers, etc. and kill your head. You would need to be very careful.

I have a few friends that are turning 10k, 10.5k, with stock valves, Kiggly Beehives, old style rocker arms, regular 3G lifters, and huge cams with no problems at all. But they have had their mishaps before and thrown rockers through their valve cover and other not so fun things.

As others have mentioned, we need more info about your setup and what you are really looking to do.

 

[99gst_racer]

You're going to want to lighten all moving components in the head. The Kiggly spring and retainer set is perfect. It's a higher rate spring to help fight against valve bounce and float when using a large cam, and the retainers weigh less than half of a stock retainer. For valves, I'd recommend something either titanium or sodium filled. Either of those would be optimal, although you can probably get by with something a bit heavier. For cams, call FP. You might want something a little bigger than the 5R's. And when porting that head, make sure you aren't removing any material from the floor of the port. You only want to raise the port.


SonySlave - What did they revise with the EVO rocker arms? I've never heard anything about those before. I assume they're still the same ratio, so I don't know what they would have changed.

 

[SonySlave]

when you say big cams what range in size are you talking about 272 or bigger? and I know turbo and fuel make that all changes i'm asking what is needed to make it work not perform to it's highest level.

Well you could turn any set of cams to 11k rpm if you have the valvetrain to support them: 272s, FP4Rs, Kelfords, etc. So that doesn't really matter. What I was specifically mentioning was a cam that would continue to allow the engine to breathe properly at that high of an RPM. 272s or the like, would be running out of steam past 8k rpm or so. A larger cam such as the FP5R or FP11R or Kelford 280s would have a much easier time keeping up with the CFM load without making power fall off. I'm no expert, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

99gst_racer: The new rocker arms that come in the Evos look a bit different. The ratios are still the same and they may work the same, but according to FP's website under the FP5R info, they recommend the newest OEM rocker arm because they have a slightly longer pad for better control. Though I do admit I have never used them so I don't know how much better they really are. The part number is still MD375091.

Here is the visual difference:

 

[99gst_racer]

99gst_racer: The new rocker arms that come in the Evos look a bit different. The ratios are still the same and they may work the same, but according to FP's website under the FP5R info, they recommend the newest OEM rocker arm because they have a slightly longer pad for better control. Though I do admit I have never used them so I don't know how much better they really are. The part number is still MD375091.

Thanks for the info.

 

[just90gs]

yes thank you for the info.

 

[94MightyMax]

I know your not looking for it to be effiecient just wanna make it work, but your powerband is gunna be pretty funky. I would aim for a little bit lower as well but to each their own. Good luck with the project and keep us updated

 

[andy4g63]

Well you could turn any set of cams to 11k rpm if you have the valvetrain to support them: 272s, FP4Rs, Kelfords, etc. So that doesn't really matter. What I was specifically mentioning was a cam that would continue to allow the engine to breathe properly at that high of an RPM. 272s or the like, would be running out of steam past 8k rpm or so. A larger cam such as the FP5R or FP11R or Kelford 280s would have a much easier time keeping up with the CFM load without making power fall off. I'm no expert, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

99gst_racer: The new rocker arms that come in the Evos look a bit different. The ratios are still the same and they may work the same, but according to FP's website under the FP5R info, they recommend the newest OEM rocker arm because they have a slightly longer pad for better control. Though I do admit I have never used them so I don't know how much better they really are. The part number is still MD375091.

Here is the visual difference:

They are made from stamped steel, which makes them lighter, but not as strong as their DSM counterparts. Read somewhere, that high revving EVO guys tend to brake them.

 

[d2james88]

Well a 11k turning motor is not too farfected lingenfelter did a ecotec 2.2 liter motor that made well over 1000 hp but its more than just a high revving head they lightend the entire rotating assembly and had a custom set up with lenghtend rods and shorter pistons. Good luck with the build.

 

[Kaotic_red]

Its a hell of a goal to reach but good luck man. That would be insane.

 

[just90gs]

well I got a lot of time in it and yes i've doe a lot of reseach before i wanted to just make a 2.4 stroker and then wieght out it out 2.4 7k maxed mabey less or (4g64/4g63) with 2.1 turning 11k. so I stop building the 2.4 sold all part that I did not need. still using the 4g64 block and 2.0 inturnals not stock but 2.0 inturnals so I got all that I just wanted some backing for parts. want the head to be able to turn 11k I'll only be turning 10k.

I'm also getting a 88 crx si and droping a 4g63 in it! Putting some mitsu emblems on it. Just to make a point to all the honda guy's who talk crap about the dsm's. I hate when those guy's talk down on dsm's. And that's another reason why I want a dsm to turn those kinda rpm's there are many reason why I'm doing this.Becuase I don't dog them but at the same time dsm should be respected to the fullest in the 90's they broke record after record then the crank walk thing came in to place. and it was like o it's a dsm it's gonna get crank walk which I think is ###. it's just not cool.

 

[brandnew161]

I'm also getting a 88 crx si and droping a 4g63 in it! Putting some mitsu emblems on it. Just to make a point to all the honda guy's who talk crap about the dsm's. I hate when those guy's talk down on dsm's.

Thatta way

 

[AWD_Hybrid]

Do you realise the crank needs to be balanced at a higher rev than a streeter.
It will be out of balance at lower driving revs & smoothe out as revs get higher.
The solid harmonic & fly & pres plate, all need to be balanced for 11k, not 7k.
Knife edged crank I hope ? Formula 1 doesn't use 4g's. Why would you ?
Cheers !