frozen coolant

[desolateboosted]

Ok my stupid ass put pure water into my coolant system during the winter. The plan was I was going to flush it out two times before I added a coolant/water mix. Ok so the block/radiator/waterlines are frozen I forgot all about it and decided to start the car. On the first couple tries the car wouldn't crank over easy. I thought it was a weak battery so I decided to jump start the B!itch. After a few tries jump starting it finally started. Yay, but to my suprise I suddenly remember the water and I quickly opened the radiator cap. The entire thing is frozen and then I touched the upper radiator pipe. Pure Ice! My heart sank. I shut the car off after about 1 minute of running. A piece of the block had fell off. It looks like a circle and goes on the front of the block behind the turbo. Is that a freeze plug? After a few days now I go back and inspect it sure enough it's a circilar plug that fell out. What does it block? Coolant? Oil? or Both? How much damage did I do? Am I ####ed or is my block still savable? Any help would be great.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

It blocks off water and is meant to blow out when the water freezes, hence the name "freeze plug", so it is less likely to do damage to the block/head. At this point all you can do is put a fresh one in, make sure you check the others also in case they might have pushed themselves loose, let it thaw and fire it up. If you only ran it for a minute it should not have done any damage, but you might keep and eye on the waterpump as it could have blown the seal when the water froze. Also keep and eye on the other freeze plugs for a couple of days just to make sure they didn't work loose.

The reason it was hard at first to start is that the water in the pump was frozen/iced and the resistance against the driven belt.

Good luck on minimal damage.

Jim

 

[desolateboosted]

Thank you so much for the help. Yeah I am going to buy new ones. How many are there on the block? Are they easy to put in? Can I hammer them in? Should I use a sealant? Are there any on the other side of the block? THanks again.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

I looked through CAPS on my car - 7 bolt, it appears that there is a total of 9 on the block and 2 on the head. Although it is a rather small picture to look at when searching through CAPS, so I might have missed/added a couple by mistake.

But around 10 total sounds about right for head/block. Looks to have several on the back side next to the firewall, what appears to be one on the tranny side, one on the t-belt side, and several on the front. The head at each end. My car is at the house so I can't really run outside and be more specific.

Getting to them will be the pita. When installing use something that covers the plug face compleatly so you are tapping them in square. Yes a hammer will work, and no you don't need any sealer, it is a "press" fit.


Jim

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

Well, if you did not rupture an internal passage between the oil and coolant or any other internal passage perhaps you dodged a bullet. "Freeze" plugs are not intended to save the engine if you forget to put anti freeze in it. These are actually casting plugs to remove the casting material after the block is formed. This has been a discussion of long ago and to some heated arguments. Yes they are called "Freeze" plugs, but that's as far as they technically go.

Get the water out and replace with a good 50-50 mix. Start the engine and pray like you've never prayed before.

You never know. Good Luck

 

[project_tsi]

Correct, there are 9 freeze plugs on the block. 4 on the back, 3 up front, 2 on the tranny side.

Check the block for any other signs of cracking/splitting or problems from the freeze. I have seen a few chevy 350 blocks freeze and crack, b/c the freeze plugs didn't save the block completely.

When removing the current plugs, use a hammer and a screwdriver and drive into the side of the plug until it breaks loose. Then use a pair of pliers to pull the plug out of the block, then clean up the inner plug sealing surface of the block.

I just installed new freeze plugs in my block the other day, and yes my block was out of the car so it was eaiser, but here are some tips.

Like FORMONTOYA said, use something that is larger than the plug its self to drive into the block. I used a very large wrist pin from a Masey Ferguson tractor I did a rebuild on.

The size of the plugs are 35mm. You'll need to know this when you buy them.

FORMONTOYA is correct by saying the plugs are press fit, and a sealant isn't needed, however I always use sealant when installing the plugs. There actually is a special cup/core sealant available to seal freeze plugs. I put some on my finger, and lube up the inside area of the block, and also plut the sealer on the ring of the plug itself. Then, center the plug over the hole, and proceed to drive the plugs into place. Make sure to drive the plugs in evenly straight down or you run the risk of the plug not sealing, thus leaving you a leak again.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

"Freeze" plugs are not intended to save the engine if you forget to put anti freeze in it.

I always thought they were, although i guess that is why they are called caps and not plugs in the CAPS program, but then again I have never tested the theory out before. I have known a couple of people over the years that had a similar situation happen and popped a couple of freeze plugs and only had to replace the plugs, no other damage except to thier knuckles and pride after tackeling such a pita job with an assembled engine in the car.

The only time I have ever installed freeze plugs is on a rebuild with the engine on a stand. I surely don't envy the OP for the project he has on his hands.


Jim

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

I think you can "rent' a freeze plug installer from parts houses like O'Reillys etc. I'm not sure about Autozone or Pepboys or such, but they are designed to drive the cups in flush and to the proper depth all in one shot.

I just long blocked a 350 Chevy marine engine in a 25 foot cuddy cabin this last summer. The drain plugs weren't removed last winter. Every "freeze" plug was perfectly untouched. Both sides of the block were French doored. This is a crack with lateral lines which resemble french doors. The intake galley was busted which allowed water into the engine oil area. The result is nasty to say the least.

Putting your trust in "freeze" plugs is like putting your trust to a fox in your hen house.

 

[project_tsi]

^ Thats the same exact thing my 350 block did. All plugs were perfect, but the block had the frech door affect.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Ouch!! I guess I have never experienced something like that because I have lived in Houston, Texas most of my life and it doesn't get near as cold as it does further north. Cold to us is 50 degrees and we only see freezing temps maybe a week out of the year.


Jim

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

In 1982 or 83 it got so cold that marine engines and manifolds were busting all the way down to Corpus Cristi. It took all summer to get the engines back in the boats as MerCruiser and OMC had to make up the defecit plus keep up with manufacturing. It was horrible. Nastiest year of my life. Every engine had oil and water mixed in it. I think we did a total of probably a hundred or so that summer. Yeccccchhhhh

 

[wolf20043]

9 out of 10 times, if a "freeze Plug" goes, You have bigger issues than just freeze plugs.
Mike

 

[FORMONTOYA]

In 1982 or 83 it got so cold that marine engines and manifolds were busting all the way down to Corpus Cristi. It took all summer to get the engines back in the boats as MerCruiser and OMC had to make up the defecit plus keep up with manufacturing. It was horrible. Nastiest year of my life. Every engine had oil and water mixed in it. I think we did a total of probably a hundred or so that summer. Yeccccchhhhh

It's odd for it to freeze for any length of time here in Houston. Yes it happens, but not very often.


Jim

 

[jasteel13]

I did the same in my winter honda beater... froze all the water lines, i didnt notice until i drove it for a while and i heard a noise when i stopped.. as all the ice melted it built up pressure and my radiator sounded like it was about to explode..

 

[desolateboosted]

Since then I have pulled the car into my garage and left it there. This weekend I will warm up the garage and try to thaw it out. Install the freeze plugs and pray. I will let you guys know how it turns out

 

[desolateboosted]

Ok today I warmed up the garage and my damn block wasn't thawing how I expected. Just what I expected anyway haha. I said #### it and started up the car. Warmed up and it started thawing. Water started to drip away started it up just enough for all the ice to melt. Took out the radiator and threw it into the bath tub. Opened up the hot water and gave it a nice hot bath. After 20-30 minutes it's all good. Next I inspected the freeze plugs. All looked good expect for 2 spots. The one where it fell off and another one on the back side. The freeze plug on the back side started to back out. Took a hammer and it went back in. I know that's some ghetto shit but it felt like it was tight. The front one that came off I decided to reuse that one and silicon it in. After fixing everything I put everything back on. This time my smart ass used a 50/50 mix. Drove the car around for 10 minutes everything seems well. After letting the car cool down I pop the radiator cap and there goes the green coolant. I know the water pump has to be working because I poured in coolant first then topped it off with water. Checked the oil level and it looks good (full), and doesn't looked mixed with coolant. Everything feels pretty good and I am going to drive it more around slowly to see if something comes up.

 

[project_tsi]

Even with a 50/50 mix of coolant and water, it will still be a bright green color, especially new coolant.

Keep an eye on the plugs that you replaced and the plug that you drove back in for leaks. If they leak at all, then you should replace them with new plugs. Also, use some cup/core sealant from Permatex found from this link.

http://permatex.com/products/prodidx...&item_no=82747

Good luck.

 

[1stGenRocks]

http://permatex.com/products/prodidx...&item_no=82747QUOTE]


page cannot be found.....

 

[project_tsi]

Hmm. Try this link.

http://permatex.com/products/prodidx.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=82747

 

[desolateboosted]

Update

Everything seems good. After a couple days of driving it semi hard just like a dsmer would the car started to overheat yesterday night. Here's the story. I started the car after sitting a couple hours and drove off. Turn onto the highway and headed home from work. Me double checking everything noticed the temp gauge started to go up higher as the car warmmed up. It didn't stop at the middle where it usually did. The needle went 3/4 the way to redzone and stayed there for about a minute. It finally came back down sitting steady in the middle. Drove home and thought nothing about it. Got home and I let the car sit for about 10 minutes. Went back and started it. This is where the overheating issue started. I took it just to drive around a little bit. The car overheated and needle pegged almost redzone as it read about 95% hot. It wouldn't come back down and I had to drive it home which was only about 3 minutes away since I didn't get far. Now I'm stumpped. I just changed the thermostat like 2 weeks prior. One of the things I thought about was when the coolant was frozen it damaged the water pump and now it's starting to catch up not being able to circulate the coolant. I noticed that the upper radiator hose was hot and the lower was cold. Feeling the radiator from top to bottom it's all hot until I get 3 inches to the bottom where it's all cold. Either that or a stuck thermostat? The car also isn't smoking so hopefully that will eliminate a leaky/bad hg. The freeze plugs are still intact and I'm not losing coolant. The pressure just builds to the point where it goes out the overflow. Any input would be great.

 

[power=dsm]

compression check to see whats going on

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Maybe the t-stat got messed up when the water froze.

Jim

 

[1fast97gsx]

Any oil and coolant mix? Any external coolant leaks? Coolant level full?

 

[GORBS88]

They are not called (Freeze) plugs...they have nuthin to do with it freezing....They are called (core) plugs.....As for you overheating problem pull your rad cap and check it while runnin...see it the w/p is circulating the coolant.......ive seen where it froze and once the car was started it spun the impellor off the w/p cause it was frozen in the ice....

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

See post # 5