1G First engine rebuild piston ring question...

[keltalon]

Got another question guys. f***ed up assembly when I was putting the pistons in the bore, rod nicked the crank rod journal and put a mm nick in it (fuel line fell off the rod bolt). what are my options? new crank or can I gently sand down the high points on the nick?

You can sand it out or as stated above take it to a machine shop and have it micro polished at any rate the finger nail is not a good way to go about determining whether it's good or not if it's nicked Polish it that way you won't be pulling the engine later with more catastrophic damages. . I polished my own crank with awesome results.

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[buhay6]

Can you catch your fingernail on the nick?

barely yes, I decided not to touch it today because I was moving to fast and that's clearly why/how accidents happen. I basically wanna make sure I can give it a quick sand to take out the high spots of the divet and have a small low spot.
If I'm home tomorrow I'll take a picture for you guys to judge what I should do. With being so mad at myself and pissed off I wasn't even going to look at it today.
I do have another 6 bolt crank laying around but it definitely will need a polish as it seen bearing material from this engines previous life one positive thing was head was minty fresh when I tore the engine down definitely had seen the machinist recently.

Oh heres a pic of the journal I question.

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You can sand it out or as stated above take it to a machine shop and have it micro polished at any rate the finger nail is not a good way to go about determining whether it's good or not if it's nicked Polish it that way you won't be pulling the engine later with more catastrophic damages. . I polished my own crank with awesome results.

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Is that your video kelvin?

 

[keltalon]

Is that your video kelvin?

Yes Thats my video!

 

[GST with PSI]

You can sand it out or as stated above take it to a machine shop and have it micro polished at any rate the finger nail is not a good way to go about determining whether it's good or not if it's nicked Polish it that way you won't be pulling the engine later with more catastrophic damages. . I polished my own crank with awesome results.

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It's pretty common to use your fingernail to quickly find spots on the crankshaft that need attention. It's not go/no-go criteria, and that's not what I was suggesting.

Regarding your polishing method, I'd just have it done correctly by a machine shop if I couldn't do it by hand on a bench.

Your method rotates the crankshaft at speed in a journal with no oil pressure. Maybe you put a ton of assembly lube on the bearing, but even so, I still wouldn't trust the idea. If/when that journal ever goes dry, your crank is f***ed.

Also, by allowing the crankshaft to hang out of the block, you're placing a lateral load on the last 2 journals (becuz gravity). A load they aren't designed to support, especially by a journal that has zero oil pressure.

I appreciate your ingenuity, but I wouldn't recommend your method.

I basically wanna make sure I can give it a quick sand to take out the high spots of the divet and have a small low spot.

You need to confirm there's not a high spot. In order to do so, you need a micrometer.

Mic the journal, then mic the divot itself. You're aiming to mic the edges of the divot, where the metal would be raised. Polish the divot until there are no high spots according to your mic, and you should be OK. Unless that's way deeper than the pictures are showing, you should be fine with a little polish.

 

[keltalon]

It's pretty common to use your fingernail to quickly find spots on the crankshaft that need attention. It's not go/no-go criteria, and that's not what I was suggesting.


Regarding your polishing method, I'd just have it done correctly by a machine shop if I couldn't do it by hand on a bench.

Your method rotates the crankshaft at speed in a journal with no oil pressure. Maybe you put a ton of assembly lube on the bearing, but even so, I still wouldn't trust the idea. If/when that journal ever goes dry, your crank is f***ed.

Also, by allowing the crankshaft to hang out of the block, you're placing a lateral load on the last 2 journals (becuz gravity). A load they aren't designed to support, especially by a journal that has zero oil pressure.

I appreciate your ingenuity, but I wouldn't recommend your method.




You need to confirm there's not a high spot. In order to do so, you need a micrometer.

Mic the journal, then mic the divot itself. You're aiming to mic the edges of the divot, where the metal would be raised. Polish the divot until there are no high spots according to your mic, and you should be OK. Unless that's way deeper than the pictures are showing, you should be fine with a little polish.

Correctly man please. First off you don't need oil pressure just oiling with a no load situation. Secondly machine shop polished my crank before and couldn't achieve this level of polishing. Third I have bee paid to come and show my step to several machine shops here in Atlanta none of them was familiar with the paper used in the video I have been thank a million times over! Just be glad I shared just one of my secrets of the 800whp monster! I am about what works not all that bla bla bla. Tell me something New!

Is that your video kelvin?

Buhay send me your crankshaft and I will Polish all your journels on the house. And when I am done take it to your machine shop and post on these boards their comments.

 

[GST with PSI]

Correctly man please. For off you don't need oil pressure just oiling with a no load situation. Secondly machine shop polished my crank before and couldn't achieve this level of polishing. Third I have bee paid to come and show my step NY several machine shops here in Atlanta none of them was familiar with the paper used in the video I have been thank a million times over! Just be glad I shared just one of my secrets of the 800whp monster!

Actually, there is a load. It's a lateral one (like I said) that's caused by half of a crankshaft hanging out of the block. Sure, it's probably minimal, but combined with a dry journal and you spinning the crankshaft with a drill, it's a recipe for disaster.

I don't care who pays you to show them your method, or what kind of horsepower your car makes. I wouldn't use your method, nor would I ever recommend it to others.

Kelvin, this is nothing personal. However, people reading this should be made aware of how your "secrets" could leave you with a trashed crankshaft, rather than the 800whp monster you claim it will net you. This may have worked for you or the next guy 100 times, but there's a good chance this could end up badly for someone, who will then be out a crankshaft.

 

[buhay6]

You need to confirm there's not a high spot. In order to do so, you need a micrometer.

Mic the journal, then mic the divot itself. You're aiming to mic the edges of the divot, where the metal would be raised. Polish the divot until there are no high spots according to your mic, and you should be OK. Unless that's way deeper than the pictures are showing, you should be fine with a little polish.

K I'll go buy a micrometer and try and find the correct sand paper to do the job. I know jafro say's small low spots aren't a problem and some times are even beneficial but ya a high spot would be very bad.
I though it was worse then it was actually, it took me awhile to even locate it.

Buhay send me your crankshaft and I will Polish all your journels on the house. And when I am done take it to your machine shop and post on these boards their comments.

financially it wouldn't make sense, plus it'd take a few weeks before getting it back (shipping cross boarders ridiulous). My pocket books hurting after spending another 1.2k on more parts and machine work. I did find the video very interesting tho

 

[keltalon]

These boards are all about various methods by us advance builders. If I was posting a suggestion that was not tested then yeah members need to be aware of the dangers! Since this video I have polished 20 or more crankshaft with proven success. Therefore what I am suggesting is tested tried and true. My setup is a living example. There is not enough load contrary to to your opinion as provenby my tested results that causes any damage to the crankshaft. This is not personal it's fact with proven tested results. Please make notation of that for future reference thanks you sir.

Actually, there is a load. It's a lateral one (like I said) that's caused by half of a crankshaft hanging out of the block. Sure, it's probably minimal, but combined with a dry journal and you spinning the crankshaft with a drill, it's a recipe for disaster.

I don't care who pays you to show them your method, or what kind of horsepower your car makes. I wouldn't use your method, nor would I ever recommend it to others.

Kelvin, this is nothing personal. However, people reading this should be made aware of how your "secrets" could leave you with a trashed crankshaft, rather than the 800whp monster you claim it will net you. This may have worked for you or the next guy 100 times, but there's a good chance this could end up badly for someone, who will then be out a crankshaft.

For the benefit of the board while my engine is waiting to be put into the awd I dropped the oil pan to show what the journels look like after 8000 miles of pure abuse my method work just as intended flawless!

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[GST with PSI]

If you and others want to install crankshafts half hanging out of the block, then use power tools to spin them at high speed in an un-oiled journal, then by all means, feel free to do so. Like I said, it's not something I'd ever do, or recommend that others do.

You can post all the pictures and success stories you want, they don’t negate the possible issues that could occur, which I've outlined above. Personally, I like to err on the side of caution when machining and expensive parts are at stake. You can do whatever you want with your parts/build. For those who are undecided, they can make an educated decision for themselves given the information presented.

 

[keltalon]

If you and others want to install crankshafts half hanging out of the block, then use power tools to spin them at high speed in an un-oiled journal, then by all means, feel free to do so. Like I said, it's not something I'd ever do, or recommend that others do.

You can post all the pictures and success stories you want, they don’t negate the possible issues that could occur, which I've outlined above. Personally, I like to err on the side of caution when machining and expensive parts are at stake. You can do whatever you want with your parts/build. For those who are undecided, they can make an educated decision for themselves given the information presented.

I see you just want to argue if you have a p

If you and others want to install crankshafts half hanging out of the block, then use power tools to spin them at high speed in an un-oiled journal, then by all means, feel free to do so. Like I said, it's not something I'd ever do, or recommend that others do.

You can post all the pictures and success stories you want, they don’t negate the possible issues that could occur, which I've outlined above. Personally, I like to err on the side of caution when machining and expensive parts are at stake. You can do whatever you want with your parts/build. For those who are undecided, they can make an educated decision for themselves given the information presented.

is all I can do since you choose to ignore proven results. You keep doing you my friend and when you do something impressive I'll be the first to let you know!

 

[GST with PSI]

I'm not here to impress others. I'm simply here to provide information to allow others to make educated decisions for themselves.

 

[keltalon]

I'm not here to impress others. I'm simply here to provide information to allow others to make educated decisions for themselves.

I don't think anyone is here to impress another but the fact exist that a lot of people here do some very impressive things which makes another more willing to listen. Like I said you do your thing and I will do mine. When a person post a question on these boards they are seeking answers with proven results and this is what I provide and have never steered anyone wrong. When you give educated answers like what does the finger nail say that is far from education in my book.

 

[pimpy rider]

well i for one would say thank you both, gst and kel for your contributions!
i have a perfect candidate in my shed to try this technique on! im totally trying it, worst case i would say if i bugger it up id just have to get it refinished (sonething it needs already)

 

[GST with PSI]

When you give educated answers like what does the finger nail say that is far from education in my book.

I've provided adequate information to help any reader come to a solution. However, what I'm unable to teach you is how to actually read and interpret the information. You're clearly missing important parts of the text.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/fi...on-ring-question.503808/page-2#post-153592718

 

[keltalon]

I've provided adequate information to help any reader come to a solution. However, what I'm unable to teach you is how to actually read and interpret the information. You're clearly missing important parts of the text.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/fi...on-ring-question.503808/page-2#post-153592718

With a fingernail??? I ain't missing not one thing I have to say no thanks.

well i for one would say thank you both, gst and kel for your contributions!
i have a perfect candidate in my shed to try this technique on! im totally trying it, worst case i would say if i bugger it up id just have to get it refinished (sonething it needs already)

If you need some pre-made straps let me know I can make you up a kit. What I didn't mention in the video is this is wet sanding you have to use a little water during the sanding process. This is how we Polish all our Corian counter tops. I also polished my oil pump gears and haven't had a oil pump failure ever since.

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[Mischif]

What I didn't mention in the video is this is wet sanding you have to use a little water during the sanding process.

You ever try it using automatic transmission fluid instead of water? Thats what i use for my polishing technique.

 

[keltalon]

You ever try it using automatic transmission fluid instead of water? Thats what i use for my polishing technique.

Na never thought about it. Next time I will give it a try. The water is what we normally use on our acrylic counters. Www.hmcwoodwork.com

 

[mitsubishikid]

If you need some pre-made straps let me know I can make you up a kit. What I didn't mention in the video is this is wet sanding you have to use a little water during the sanding process. This is how we Polish all our Corian counter tops. I also polished my oil pump gears and haven't had a oil pump failure ever since.

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great work keltalon where can we get the micro paper and strap, any idea on cost etc?

Another cool, yet subtle, thing I noticed in your polishing video is, you left the old main bearings in place to protect the block from getting hit by the extender on the drill.

 

[keltalon]

great work keltalon where can we get the micro paper and strap, any idea on cost etc?

Another cool, yet subtle, thing I noticed in your polishing video is, you left the old main bearings in place to protect the block from getting hit by the extender on the drill.

Thanks kid! here's the link to my supplier you will have to browse around for the scotch brite pad look for the white one. You will need only 1 sheet of each grit of paper. 60 30 15 micron and white scotchbrite. use with water. http://www.specialtytools.com/consumables/abrasives.html

the straps can be purchased at home depot they are the rachet tie strap , you will need to cut them to your needs.

 

[ceedawg]

It takes a.lot to bend a crankshaft I have always been told. 800whp with tons of torque and 1000s of miles of abuse! I think Im sold on the process.! If 700ft tq is not bending the crank beyond use I cannot see how Kels process could in anyway damage the crankshaft

 

[familyMAN]

As for question on ring gaps, I wouldn't worry about a little loose. My ptw came out looser than wanted so rings didn't even need gapped......026 top and .030 bottom. Broke in fine and minor oil in catch can; running 40psi.

 

[buhay6]

Well I'm back again with questions....
My engines only got a 100 km on it and a few hours of run time, did a compression test just now (warm engine)
cam out like so
1# -150
2# -163
3# -160
4# -129
I'm thinking there's problems, but wanted to ask is it usual for rings to bed unevenly for the first while or is this really what I think it is?
my oil filter had a good amount of little dust like metal shavings in it on the second oil change, got to pop the oil pan off again so I might take off some of the rod caps and bearing caps to take a peek at the bearings.

 

[boostdawd]

With uneven numbers like that I would suspect something from your cylinder head. You can do the cap of oil test per cylinder and see if it increases pressure. Di u get any work done to your cylinder head?