FIC BlueMax 1450cc Tuning

[mnetwork]

I'm looking into buying BlueMax 1450cc injectors and I was wondering how tuning is on these. I am seeing mixed answers and I would like some input from people who have used or are currently using these with DSMLink. How is the driveability on them? Any issues?

 

[clipto]

So 1000cc's are max I would ever run on pump gas anything above that well you can have fun trying to get em to run properly. I had 1650cc on E85 on a 62/62 turbo but that was more then enough injector, sence I have seen 1450cc make 700hp on evos so that is more then enough. Anything else find a good tuner or reaseach how to dial in injectors and call it good.

 

[Calan]

Do 1650cc blue max idle good on e85 with out the easy tune box?

One year-old thread revival for an unrelated topic.

Cool

 

[swifteagle]

i have a hx52 sould i run 1450cc or 1650cc? that turbo flows more then a gt40. i am going to run e85 and 32_35psi

 

[snowborder714]

I would just go 2150's if you plan on running that big of a turbo. Those injectors will only be good for about half of what that turbo can flow, especially on E85.

I haven't looked at the compressor map, but I'd be willing to bet the HX52 wouldn't even wake up at that low boost level.

 

[renovatdkitchen]

Hey guys, sorry for pulling the thread up from the grave, but I just wanted to know if anyone with FIC Bluemax 1450cc's could post their deadtime settings from The direct access tab, as if I dont recharge my battery before starting the car, the cylinders flood. Sometimes it will start, but I am greatly suspecting it being the deadtime settings at the lower voltages, due to charging the battery before starting will let it start without much trouble.

I currently have the injectors set at -69.1% and a global deadtime of 735usecs.

Thank you

 

[MY1GDSM]

The Numbers I posted in the screen shot above tweaked a bit from what I put up real quick before as a comparison...

Say between what is posted an about 100us more or less overall for your set an it should work pretty good... I'd go about a 150us less at 16volts though and about 500 more at 9 volts and about 1600-1700 more over stock a 7 volts... Every set is going to be a bit off from the next as well as how you go about tuning things... . But most set ups should fall in that general range from my experience... Though mine need a bit more at higher volts then I've seen in other sets(at least with a 1g ECU)... .

Best bet is to put a load on the electrical system and see what the AFR ratio is doing at different DT... Only other way to get some real numbers would be a test bench as it's hard to get to the Real low voltages.

I've said this many times though that using a global DT is only be trouble some as No aftermarket injector as the same linearity from what I've ever seen vs Stock....

 

[renovatdkitchen]

And that would be for 93 Octane? Noticed that your screenie there was for ethanol.

Also, should I still leave the Global deadtime setting at 735 usec, or set it back to 0 if I am using the direct access?

 

[MY1GDSM]

Technically speaking being there is a very small different in the fluid property between Ethanol and gas there would be a Tiny change in Latency. But over all the only thing that should change between these fuels would be the Global and the tune it's self.

IF you are making the changes to the Latency table in DA you want to set the DT as 0 in the ECMfile...

 

[renovatdkitchen]

Thank you. I inputted the changes and will attempt to start the car once I redo the timing belt to center it. I will try to post results to let future users know.

For the record, on a 2g 7 bolt using 1450cc injectors on 93oct, here are my deadtime settings.

 

[921]

What were your global fuel and dead time for e85 with these injectors?

 

[renovatdkitchen]

Like I said, those were my settings on 93 octane. No e85 around these parts unfortunately.

 

[921]

Is there any one running a hx35 with bluemax 1450 fic injectors on e85?

 

[dexterholland04]

What were your global fuel and dead time for e85 with these injectors?

You can keep the same dead time, just scale your global fuel by 33% (add). This will get you in the ballpark from a pump gas tune. From there, you make make the necessary small adjustments.

 

[921]

On my 1450fic with the hx 35 my dead time is 570 and global is 51.6 it idles meh ok but I get any where from 0.4-1.5 knock under load and my wot afrs are pretty rich around 10 -10.4

 

[renovatdkitchen]

What are your LTFT's? Any suggestions are just a baseline.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

You can keep the same dead time, just scale your global fuel by 33% (add). This will get you in the ballpark from a pump gas tune. From there, you make make the necessary small adjustments.

If we're talking about Ecmlink, just changing the stoichiometric ratio to 9.9 instead of 14.7 should do the trick.

 

[921]

I basically just need a suggestion on what my global and dead time and peak time should be so I can adjust the rest from some one with a similar setup

 

[v8s_are_slow]

If you're on pump gas, setup the injectors for 1450's, and stoichiometric ratio for 14.7 (although it's probably already there). If you're on E85, set the stoichiometric ratio for 9.9

As for deadtime, you need to log CombinedFT, STFT, and LTFT Lo. Maybe start deadtime around 500ish. When the car is up to operating temps and closeloop says 1-, you wanna make sure they're all around 0%. Keeping in mind that positive numbers are a leaner mixture. Negative numbers are richer.

If STFT is positive, add deadtime. If it's negative, subtract deadtime.
If LTFT Lo is positive, get STFT to go between -1 to -5 to get LTFT Lo to come down. If LTFT Lo is negative, then get STFT between +1 to +5 to get it to come up. Once STFT and LTFT Lo is around 0%, CombinedFT will follow those two parameters.

Hope that helps. Deadtime isn't a rock solid number where everyone is gonna have the same number and it's just a suggestion as a starting point to get you started. Everyone's actual deadtime may be different from one car to the next. Also, a note about InjBatteryAdj. It's the same as global deadtime. The only real difference is that it's make an adjustment at individual voltage. Reason it's good to also be logging your battery voltage.

 

[Calan]

If LTFT Lo is positive, get STFT to go between -1 to -5 to get LTFT Lo to come down. If LTFT Lo is negative, then get STFT between +1 to +5 to get it to come up.

...or just reset the long term trims and don't worry about them, and simply watch CombinedFT.

With that said, that isn't a very good way to adjust deadtime. It's just as likely (probably more so) that CombinedFT errors are caused by airflow mis-calibration or an incorrect global fuel parameter. You're better off setting deadtime to either a true characterized value (from Tom, or Jens at FIC), or to recommended values based on that particular injector.

The only true way to use an AFR error to adjust deadtime is by watching the trends between the low and mid/high trims; not their absolute values. Since deadtime has much more effect at low pulse widths than it does at higher ones, you can use the difference between low and high trims to determine if deadtime is off...but it's still a very rough method. Besides that, each injector will have it's own peculiarities, and there is no way to accurately measure the DT of each one unless you strap them into a testing rig (and not just any machine...one that is set up with the same injector driver circuit).

 

[v8s_are_slow]

What would you suggest for people who don't have injector information though?

Let's say they DO have this information (although I was never able to get it for my own injectors), and tuning with a maf for example. Are you saying to enter the fuel injector info such as the global fuel injector size and deadtime, the information as far as Injbatteryadj, and then just use the sliders to tune from there???

I'm not sure I fully understand what you're trying to say in your post as far as using AFR error to adjust deadtime by watching the trends. Not sure if anyone else does either???

I never claim to know everything....so mind some explanation on what you mean please? Always up for more learning, but I see all too often when people try and explain things and most people have no clue what you're talking about. Have a feeling your post above might apply to a lot of others as well. No offense. I just have people telling me this all the time. Not about you specifically though.

Edit: Calan, since I read your last post, I've been thinking nonstop about what you're trying to say, and maybe it's just me, but I'm not getting what you're saying to do in the last paragraph. It might be a method I'm already doing and the way you're wording is confusing me. I'm not sure. Would just like more clarification on the process that you're talking about please. I know you're smarter than me in this regard. Heck, you DID create the Link Tools program which would be far higher than my understanding to create. Just wanna be sure I'm clear so I can get some sleep. Lol. I also don't wanna steer anyone wrong.

 

[Calan]

It is a bit confusing, which is why I purposely didn't go into a lot of detail. IMO, most people that are new to tuning end up making things worse when they try to tune deadtime by using fuel trim values. That is why I suggest just sticking with recommended or tested values.

In a nut shell, what you are looking for is how far off the low fuel trim is, compared to the mid/high fuel trim. For a simplified example, if the high fuel trim is off by 2%, but the low fuel trim is off by 8%, it's possible that the difference is caused by improper deadtime values, which are having more effect on the low trims. BUT... this could also simply be caused by airflow mis-calibration. So you have to watch what happens to this error difference between the two trims as you adjust airflow and/or DT values to determine what is actually causing the error.

And it gets worse....

Consider that you have 4 injectors, each with their own personalities, that like to operate differently at different voltages. Now lets say for example that John Newb is adjusting the global DT value simply by watching a STFT or CombinedFT value (and with a factory InjBatteryAdj table of course). What is actually causing that error? Airflow adjustment at that one point? Injector voltage adjustment at that one point? One of the 4 injectors not playing nice with the others? Global fuel not right, but over-compensated at other points? O2 sensor acting quirky? Etc, etc.

It gets very tedious, and its easy to make things worse when you (not "you" ) start blindly assuming that deadtime is the cause of fuel trim error. Personally, I'd much rather just pay Tom or Jens a few $$ and plug in the numbers they tell me to for deadtime, and assume fuel trim error is the result of airflow calibration issues... at least to start with.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

So if I'm following you correctly, you're saying the "easy" route is to get the info needed from Tom or Jens for global and deadtime numbers (unless the individual was given that info with their injectors), and then just play with the mafcomp sliders or SD table to get it in line and not have to really mess with anything else. If I'm following what you're saying anyway.

If you DON'T have that info, then the 2nd paragraph in your last post is what applies. Correct???

 

[Calan]

Correct. Properly characterized data (from Tom or Jens) for individual injectors will always be far more accurate than you can get from looking at a logged error value that is a culmination of many factors.

My personal opinion is that even theoretical latency values printed on non-characterized injector sets, or an average set of values taken from what other people are using on similar injectors... is better than "randomly" playing with DT values based on fuel trim values.

As always, YMMV.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Not sure what YMMV means, but thanks for the input. Was unaware that they'd do that for me.

 

[Calan]

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary