FIC BlueMax 1450cc Tuning

[mnetwork]

I'm looking into buying BlueMax 1450cc injectors and I was wondering how tuning is on these. I am seeing mixed answers and I would like some input from people who have used or are currently using these with DSMLink. How is the driveability on them? Any issues?

 

[slowboy101]

they are really good injectors I would go with them if I where you

 

[mnetwork]

Do you have any experience with them? I am looking for experience-related info...

 

[juzslidin]

im pretty happy with em . took a lil bit to get the daed time dialed in , but over all i like them .

 

[slowboy101]

I used them in the past and they worked just fine I had no issues with them

 

[1gDSM4g63]

What are you planning to do with 1450cc injectors on 16g turbo?

 

[mnetwork]

im pretty happy with em . took a lil bit to get the daed time dialed in , but over all i like them .

What were your settings in DSMLink for these injectors? How do they idle, how is part throttle?

I used them in the past and they worked just fine I had no issues with them

What were your settings in DSMLink for these injectors? How do they idle, how is part throttle?

What are you planning to do with 1450cc injectors on 16g turbo?

I am getting a PTE 6062sp when I get my motor back and I want enough injector to play with E85 on higher boost.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

You'll need another pump and I'd recommend the 1600cc injectors and if I remember correctly the BlueMax 1450cc or larger will possibly need a FIC Easy Tune driver to accommodate the idle and partial throttle issues.

 

[mnetwork]

You'll need another pump and I'd recommend the 1600cc injectors and if I remember correctly the BlueMax 1450cc or larger will possibly need a FIC Easy Tune driver to accommodate the idle and partial throttle issues.

I will worry about the extra pump when the time comes. I have a 255hp here going in when I do the injectors. The Easy Tune is fairly new and I wanted to know how these injectors have been working for people before the Easy Tune. I don't really need 1600cc injectors 1420's should be fine.

 

[firebirdvert305]

You'll need another pump and I'd recommend the 1600cc injectors and if I remember correctly the BlueMax 1450cc or larger will possibly need a FIC Easy Tune driver to accommodate the idle and partial throttle issues.

I have first hand information with these injectors on both 93 octane and E85. Ive used them before without an easytune box and currerntly run 1650cc bluemaxs with an easytune box. The 1450s do not need an easytune box to keep the car from bucking,stalling and having off idle problematic issues the bigger injectors have a tendency to have. Ive attached a datalog from dsmlink when I ran these injectors, the log shows LTFT lo going back "inline" after adjusting it using the correct airflow sliders. The 1450cc bluemax is probley the biggest low impedence injector id run on a DSM that DOSENT want too have to upgrade to an easytune box and deal with some driving issues. They are a great injector, I ran them upto 649whp at 106% duty cycle at a 38psi base pressure, on E85 if you have enough fuel pump these injectors will do 700whp on E85 no questions asked, and 830+whp on gasoline. Even with a single walbro 255, and these 1450cc injectors, these injectors will be able to make 501awhp on E85 as long as you have an aftermarket AFPR, again even more on gasoline, I know this by tuning a friends car with this same exact setup.

To the O.P, get these injectors and run the deadtime and global settings I attached into the log. This is a REALLY good starting point for you to get the car dialed in. Of course every car is different, and there are alot of variables to getting this "perfect" as I like them to be, such as fuel pressure, boost leaks etc. But I would HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend these injectors to be ran, even w/o the easytune box.

P.S my idle is set "pretty high", basic reason is becuase im running a custom saturn alternator that gives me full output amerage at 1150/1200 rpms. So I have full output from the alternator to run my fans and fuel pumps.

 

[rx7ttlm]

To the O.P, get these injectors and run the deadtime and global settings I attached into the log.

my version of ecm link couldn't read your file btw..

 

[1gDSM4g63]

The 1450s do not need an easytune box to keep the car from bucking,stalling and having off idle problematic issues the bigger injectors have a tendency to have.

There are no guaranteed that the 1450s don't need the EasyTune box. There is a possibility that it will; best to talk to FIC about the situation they've had with customer running 1450s. Thus that's why I went to the old 1600s instead of paying extra for the BlueMax and having a possibly of need the box. It all paid off, with correct tuning and such I don't have any issues with idling, partial throttle, etc...

 

[firebirdvert305]

There are no guaranteed that the 1450s don't need the EasyTune box. There is a possibility that it will; best to talk to FIC about the situation they've had with customer running 1450s. Thus that's why I went to the old 1600s instead of paying extra for the BlueMax and having a possibly of need the box. It all paid off, with correct tuning and such I don't have any issues with idling, partial throttle, etc...

Actually im currently sponsored by Jens @ FIC, I was the 2nd tester ever for the actual Easytune box, I had it approx a month before it was even released to the public and vendors, the only person who had it before me was the actual developer and maker for the box itself. I had the BM1650s before the easytune box was devloped, I had huge problems W/O the easytune box and the 1650s with the majority of them being idle and cruise hiccups. Jens and I both agreed the remedy to the situation was to run the BM1450cc injector, until the easytune was completed to test out before it hit the market.
I have 1650cc injectors now with an easytune box and spent literally 3 hours dialing in my car to almost damn near perfect driveability and idle, in closed-loop operation. Without the easytune-box I had to lock the car in openloop just to get them to hold a decent idle, and the cruise and part throttle...lets not even discuss that..total POS. For your pleasure I attached a 1650cc/easytune idle clip on my crap cell phone on 93 oct. this was taken a couple of weeks ago.

Let me restate to anyone else wondering, if you purchase BM1450s and utilize either DsmlinkV2.5 or ECMlink V3 you WILL NOT NEED to purchase an easytune box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKg2ODzLvM0

I just retuned a friends car in the above post locally with BM1450s, twin walbro 255 intank (that we built), and fuel pressure set too 43psi and no easytune box. On 35psi on a 61mm turbo.. on the stock shortblock with 171,000 miles the car is making well over 540awhp, plans are possible to hit the dyno next weekend....NO easytune box, perfect driveability on E85 on bluemax 1450s running dsmlink V2.5. I have plenty of logs from this car to share, the bluemax 1450s is really probley the best choice for guys wanting to run the biggest possible low impedence injector while being able to have the best possible driveability while doing so.

Hope this helps.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Really, that's not what Jens told me when the BlueMax and the EasyTune first came out. He said the each differs from other cars and there could be a possibility of needed an EasyTune box like a few others needed them for the 1450s.

 

[95burgundyesi]

So old style Bosch 1600s tuned with dsmlink correctly run fine, and BlueMax can't be tuned via DSMlink to work correctly? Is this correct?

 

[firebirdvert305]

So old style Bosch 1600s tuned with dsmlink correctly run fine, and BlueMax can't be tuned via DSMlink to work correctly? Is this correct?

Incorrect.
The Bluemax 1450cc injectors will run fine with DSMlink or Ecmlink without an easytune box. They are the biggest low impedence injector you can purchase right now without having to run an easytune box to get like stock driveability.

The older bosch 1600 injectors will give you part throttle cruise hiccups and an idle "most" wont like, unless your a "real" dsm guy and can tolerate it. These injectors do "work" but are terrible, the bluemax series injectors was specifically made to cure the problems these injectors were known to have.

Really, that's not what Jens told me when the BlueMax and the EasyTune first came out. He said the each differs from other cars and there could be a possibility of needed an EasyTune box like a few others needed them for the 1450s.

Well first off, the 1650s and 1450s were brought to the market at the same exact time as the whole bluemax series injectors was. Im not sure I agree completly with what your saying Jens told you(do you have a time-frame of when he told you this?), as you might have your story mixed some and I will explain why below. Alot of people (myself included), ran the 1650s first without having the easytune in our hands yet. Everyone who knows fuel systems knew the bosch 1600s sucked and wanted a better injector to have for driveability reasons as most of us guys couldnt live with the part throttle BS associated with the bosch 1600s. A couple of us went on a limb and decided to try the 1650cc bluemaxs...after all they were advertised to "fix all the problems the older crap bosch 1600s had. Well at first they didnt and it was explained to me in black and white im going to tell you exacly what I was told. Imagine a firehose at full-tilt trying to fill up a shot glass, this is the kind of relation a 1600cc injector was like in the cylinder of a 4g63 at idle and low cruising speeds. They were both a pretty big injector to control...there almost nearly 3.5X bigger then OEM size. So obviously we started to look for a solution. At the time, there was no "cure" for this, the only solution was to either wait for an easytune box to be developed (and hope it works) or run a smaller injector(high impedence big cc injectors wasnt out yet). One wasnt feisable obviously because the easytune box wasnt available yet, so Jens being the goodguy that he is, decided the best solution was too "see" which injector we'd be able to run without relying on an easytune box but still provide enough cc's for us guys running big boost and corn fuel. The answer was the 1450cc. Everyone who he had given them too, to replace there 1650 who did experience problems, reported all there symptoms went away and driveability was like a smaller injector, some even claimed they idled better then the older 1000cc injectors, which again isnt too suprising.

I can also agree results arent typical as nothing is. Not every two cars are alike. One of the biggest main contribuitors to keeping your car running properly is the person behind it, and ECU running it ...With that being said I have NOT YET ONCE seen a person who runs a 1450cc injectors utilizing DsmlinkV2.5 or ECMlink V3 that cannot dial in an 1450cc bluemax injector.

If your one of these people that do have a set of bluemax 1450cc injectors, run DSMlink or ECMlink and "do think you need" an easytune box like 1Gdsm4g63 is saying b/c of bad idling,driveability or anything or this sort, I encourage you to get in contact with me. Thanks for the space.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Below is a post off of one of the DSMLink forums.

I just spoke with Jens at FIC and he seems to think it could be a production problem with "early latency issues" from their initial runs of the BlueMax line. He said he hasn't had many 1450's that *need* the EasyTune and with V2.5 it will provide some benefit but not totally fix the issue if that's the case. So, if he doesn't find the production flaw he is looking for, it sounds like I will need to go with V3 and EasyTune to correct the problem. I'll keep this thread updated just to keep everyone in the loop.
Todd.

I spoke with Jens on the phone this afternoon and he did not find the issue he was hoping to find. Near as he can figure, he thinks that most people running 1450's are not running 93 octane through them so he hasn't had many similar cases to compare mine too. The eventual conclusion we came to is that given the goals I have for my car, 1150's would be a better match all-around so I'm going to put up a WTT in the Classifieds for some 11 or 1250 cc BMs or similar.

He did give me a few things to try which I will, mainly just inspecting the wires to/from my stock injector driver box to see if there could be any corrosion causing a loss of voltage to the injectors. I need new injector plugs anyway so my thought at this point is just to rewire that whole area while I'm at it - it can't hurt.

I did bring up an observation to Jens that he wasn't able to explain (rightly so, he doesn't really tune cars) that maybe bears mention here - when I roll into the throttle, I see my WBO2 gauge head down into the 10 to 12:1 range for AFR's - am I mistaken that it should stay Closed Loop and cycle around 14.7:1 if I'm only applying light (< 20%) throttle and not seeing large amounts of airflow changes? Just curious, not sure if it has anything to do with anything, just an observation.

Todd

COULD HAVE been the fuel running though these 1450s but I just went to the old 1600s I pick up for $225. Don't have idle or partial throttle issues. All you got to have is just time and patience for trial and error runs.

But like I said before, best to call Jens at FIC to see what's up with this.

 

[mnetwork]

Incorrect.
The Bluemax 1450cc injectors will run fine with DSMlink or Ecmlink without an easytune box. They are the biggest low impedence injector you can purchase right now without having to run an easytune box to get like stock driveability.

The older bosch 1600 injectors will give you part throttle cruise hiccups and an idle "most" wont like, unless your a "real" dsm guy and can tolerate it. These injectors do "work" but are terrible, the bluemax series injectors was specifically made to cure the problems these injectors were known to have.



Well first off, the 1650s and 1450s were brought to the market at the same exact time as the whole bluemax series injectors was. Im not sure I agree completly with what your saying Jens told you(do you have a time-frame of when he told you this?), as you might have your story mixed some and I will explain why below. Alot of people (myself included), ran the 1650s first without having the easytune in our hands yet. Everyone who knows fuel systems knew the bosch 1600s sucked and wanted a better injector to have for driveability reasons as most of us guys couldnt live with the part throttle BS associated with the bosch 1600s. A couple of us went on a limb and decided to try the 1650cc bluemaxs...after all they were advertised to "fix all the problems the older crap bosch 1600s had. Well at first they didnt and it was explained to me in black and white im going to tell you exacly what I was told. Imagine a firehose at full-tilt trying to fill up a shot glass, this is the kind of relation a 1600cc injector was like in the cylinder of a 4g63 at idle and low cruising speeds. They were both a pretty big injector to control...there almost nearly 3.5X bigger then OEM size. So obviously we started to look for a solution. At the time, there was no "cure" for this, the only solution was to either wait for an easytune box to be developed (and hope it works) or run a smaller injector(high impedence big cc injectors wasnt out yet). One wasnt feisable obviously because the easytune box wasnt available yet, so Jens being the goodguy that he is, decided the best solution was too "see" which injector we'd be able to run without relying on an easytune box but still provide enough cc's for us guys running big boost and corn fuel. The answer was the 1450cc. Everyone who he had given them too, to replace there 1650 who did experience problems, reported all there symptoms went away and driveability was like a smaller injector, some even claimed they idled better then the older 1000cc injectors, which again isnt too suprising.

I can also agree results arent typical as nothing is. Not every two cars are alike. One of the biggest main contribuitors to keeping your car running properly is the person behind it, and ECU running it ...With that being said I have NOT YET ONCE seen a person who runs a 1450cc injectors utilizing DsmlinkV2.5 or ECMlink V3 that cannot dial in an 1450cc bluemax injector.

If your one of these people that do have a set of bluemax 1450cc injectors, run DSMlink or ECMlink and "do think you need" an easytune box like 1Gdsm4g63 is saying b/c of bad idling,driveability or anything or this sort, I encourage you to get in contact with me. Thanks for the space.

Your results sound very promising. What were your fuel settings so that we have it posted in this thread for future reference?

 

[firebirdvert305]

For 93 octane = -69/global 735/deadtime

 

[v8s_are_slow]

I installed these injectors yesterday (1450's) and it's kicking my butt. Response on the link forums is kinda slow. Not sure if I need to tune these things in open loop or closed loop. If I tune my car in open loop, what tabs can I ignore when setting it up? I have V3. Do I need to worry about where my mafcomp settings are? That's just used for closed loop operation anyway right? How is idle controlled? I'd "prefer" to use closed loop but I'm having a hard time getting it tuned in either mode. I'm sure it's probably me and I'm just an idiot and screwing something up, but some help would be greatly appreciated. Fouled out a set of plugs yesterday and don't care to keep doing this. I see some people telling me to have my deadtime around 600, some saying around 900. That's a big difference.

Oh yeah, all I plan to run around town is 93 octane.

 

[mnetwork]

For 93 octane = -69/global 735/deadtime

I use these settings ^^^

I installed these injectors yesterday (1450's) and it's kicking my butt. Response on the link forums is kinda slow. Not sure if I need to tune these things in open loop or closed loop. If I tune my car in open loop, what tabs can I ignore when setting it up? I have V3. Do I need to worry about where my mafcomp settings are? That's just used for closed loop operation anyway right? How is idle controlled? I'd "prefer" to use closed loop but I'm having a hard time getting it tuned in either mode. I'm sure it's probably me and I'm just an idiot and screwing something up, but some help would be greatly appreciated. Fouled out a set of plugs yesterday and don't care to keep doing this. I see some people telling me to have my deadtime around 600, some saying around 900. That's a big difference.

Oh yeah, all I plan to run around town is 93 octane.

I have mine dialed in where my LTFT Mid is never more than +/- 2% from 0. I don't worry too much about the Lo as one day its fine and another it changes. I had to mess with the airflow sliders (50Hz - 400Hz) a lot to get the trims in line. I basically drove with my carpc's keyboard in my lap while logging MAFRaw, LTFTs, and STFT. I would add the STFT and LTFT in my head and try to make them add to zero at different Hz levels. With my current setup mywideband does read that the car is running rich (11s, 12s, 13s) until it gets to operating temp, but once at temp it runs fine. You can just log CombinedFT (the combiniation of STFT and the LTFT in use) as your are V3 and just get it as close to 0 as possible. I also had a problem at the beginning where my fuel pressure was about 3-4 psi too high. Lowered it and it was easier to tune after that.

These are injectors still bounce around much more than my 680's did, but the driveability isn't bad at all.

I see no reason to tune these in open loop.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

I "think" I may have it just about tuned to where i need it now. But when the fans kick on, the car just about dies cause it leans out so much. Are you guys using Injbatteryadj to help with this? I'm not sure where I should really adjust it. I dunno about V2, but V3 makes it pretty easy on some things such as mafcompadjust, etc. But as far as Injbatteryadj, I'm not sure how much to adjust each point and don't wanna adjust it too far.

 

[mnetwork]

I "think" I may have it just about tuned to where i need it now. But when the fans kick on, the car just about dies cause it leans out so much. Are you guys using Injbatteryadj to help with this? I'm not sure where I should really adjust it. I dunno about V2, but V3 makes it pretty easy on some things such as mafcompadjust, etc. But as far as Injbatteryadj, I'm not sure how much to adjust each point and don't wanna adjust it too far.

I don't have any of those features.. The only thing I can say is make sure that you have adjusted your idle right so that your ISC has enough wiggle room to compensate when it needs to.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

subscribed..

I'm interested in the 1450s as well to run E85 with the HX35, but definitely don't want to have any drive-ability concerns. I really thought that was the point of the Bluemax injectors. I had no issues with my 1o50cc injectors

 

[Boomdeeze]

Subscribed

I am looking into buying the 1450's or the 1650's to run 35 psi on my Borg s259 ETT. I will be running a 255 in tank with a Bosch 044 inline pump on E85.