evo3 vs 50 trim vs 57 trim vs 60 trim

[paintball4fun21]

i have most of the supporting mods and i was looking to upgrade to a new turbo....not sure whats the best bet...i want to get more top end while still keeping some low end power...im not looking to upgrade internals....maybe just a metal headgasket and APR studs....also what injectors for which turbos....im looking for anywhere around 400hp ... i was looking at the bullseye turbos or EVO 3 16g.............any suggestions would be great!
thanks!

 

[donmagicjuan]

Actually, any of those turbos will require a fuel system upgrade. At least to have any fun with them, that is. Your turbo selection should be based on your own goals for the car. If you plan to use the car mostly on the street, I would say get an EvoIII or a 50-trim. Once you start to realize the potential of either of those turbos, you will be struggling for traction through 2nd gear unless you have an LSD. However, if you are after the 400whp mark and wheelspin isn't necessarily one of your concerns, then go as big as you wish. You'd be pretty hard pressed to get there with an EvoIII for sure. Just keep in mind that the life expectancy of your stock internals will generally be inversely proportional to how far you push them.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Nice post Don, I would say skip the 16g, and go straight to the BB 50 Trim, it spools just as quick as the 16g, but more flows more then the 16g, you will also have a much higher efficency range then with the 16g. As for injector sizes, you must give us more info. like what kind of boost you will be running, and what octane you will be using, also remember you will probably need a wally 255, so that means you need an AFPR, and some sort of tuning device along with a logger. My suggestion is DSMLink, and a logger, if you are going past 660s, or a S-AFC II and a logger if not, but more likely you will be going past 660s since you wont be able to utilize the 50 trim to its full potential. So if you have a DSMLink you can go anywhere from stock injectors to 950s, the larger the better because it will lower the IDC, and allow for more tuning room. Also a little side note cast internals will only last for so long, I would upgrade them because with a larger turbo pushing more boost the EGTs will go up and the cast internals will melt. Just my .02.

Dustin

 

[donmagicjuan]

I see what you're saying with the 50-trim. It would seem the overall customer satisfaction is higher with this turbo than the EvoIII. You'll just have to excuse my bias, as I've had very good luck with my setup.

 

[denniegst]

A recent thread on evo3 and 50 trim: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239290&highlight=50+trim
Basically if you want more than 300 hp, go for the 50 trim or higher.

 

[JOEY A]

Ive driven a 50trim car, its not really impessive to me......But a Ball Bearing 50trim seams to be better to go with.


I really like the EVOIII turbo, to many lazy people with shitty tunes is the problem and if you cant drive throwing on a bigger turbo isnt going to solve the problem.

 

[donmagicjuan]

Basically if you want more than 300 hp, go for the 50 trim or higher.

<----- EvoIII power, baby!

A good tune is worth more than a bigger turbo, in my opinion.

 

[DSMunknown]

EVOIII vs. 50 Trim:
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236443&highlight=50+trim

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227527&highlight=50+trim

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220167&highlight=50+trim

B16G vs. 50 Trim:
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216338&highlight=50+trim

50 Trim vs. 60-1:
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226205&highlight=50+trim

Basically if you want more than 300 hp, go for the 50 trim or higher.

Ask ShapeGSX what he thinks about that statement.

<----- EvoIII power, baby!

A good tune is worth more than a bigger turbo, in my opinion.

Kudos to you

 

[JOEY A]

And to get things straight a EVOIII is not the same as a Big16g if you have a problem with that statement then call up FP and ask them your selfs.

 

[DSMunknown]

And to get things straight a EVOIII is not the same as a Big16g if you have a problem with that statement then call up FP and ask them your selfs.

You're right, the EVOIII actually outflows the Big 16G and is therefore significantly more efficient.



The EVOIII16G vs. B16G:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Blue = EVOIII16G (unported)
Red = B16G (unported)



If you would like to know more, click here.

 

[Spooling99]

Im gonna agree with Don on this one. Dont underestimate the Evo16G, With a proper tune you do some damage. Andy also had one that was constantly boosted at 28psi. If you have the money though I dont see a reason not to go with a BB 50 trim as they are really nice turbos. Good luck and let us know what you end up with.

 

[JOEY A]

On race gas I push 26psi with no problems and the car moves really good, To many people think the EVOIII is the same as a Big16.......If you really want to get into some things the EVOIII turbo is more efficent than a 18G.

 

[Ludachris]

Your profile is pretty vague in terms of the mod list. I'd be interested to learn more about the mods you have. Not to say that you don't have all the necessary mods, but as we all know, some people upgrade turbos before they have the necessary mods to support it.

 

[JOEY A]

http://newengdsm.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12489


1st page in this thread also has some info, SHAPE is also on this forum and he has gone 11.8s

 

[denniegst]

<----- EvoIII power, baby!

A good tune is worth more than a bigger turbo, in my opinion.

how long did it take you to reach those numbers? i was under the impression that it would take alot of time and effort to reach numbers like yours, with tunning and such forth. i know with fine tunning numbers like that can be reached; but when you are fine tunning arent you pretty much set on the car not being daily driver anymore? With a 50trim and an safc you can reach 300 hp, correct? Not much of a fine tunning but good enough for daily driving. I want a 300 hp daily driver car because i dont have that much time to fine tune, when im still in college trying to pass classes

 

[2gGSX]

I believe he's using a methanol injection system and running 25 psi of boost to reach those numbers. His airflow was ~38-40 lbs/min on that pull as well if I remember correctly. A setup like that is very streetable as long as you make sure your injection media does not run out. The "fine tuning" as you put it is necessary regardless of what turbo you use, and gets to be easier with experience so I don't see that as a huge problem.

 

[JOEY A]

how long did it take you to reach those numbers? i was under the impression that it would take alot of time and effort to reach numbers like yours, with tunning and such forth. i know with fine tunning numbers like that can be reached; but when you are fine tunning arent you pretty much set on the car not being daily driver anymore? With a 50trim and an safc you can reach 300 hp, correct? Not much of a fine tunning but good enough for daily driving. I want a 300 hp daily driver car because i dont have that much time to fine tune, when im still in college trying to pass classes

There isnt alot of time to tune anything, you need somone that A. Somone that Can tune or B. A shop that is good at tunning.

If your car has all the feul mods, and is correctly setup you shouldnt have any problems.....


Its all about Tuning, I dont care what anyone says. Im running a EVOIII that in most cases is faster than some bigger turbo cars because its tuned well and it has a decent driver mod.

 

[GreddyGst]

how long did it take you to reach those numbers? i was under the impression that it would take alot of time and effort to reach numbers like yours, with tunning and such forth. i know with fine tunning numbers like that can be reached; but when you are fine tunning arent you pretty much set on the car not being daily driver anymore? With a 50trim and an safc you can reach 300 hp, correct? Not much of a fine tunning but good enough for daily driving. I want a 300 hp daily driver car because i dont have that much time to fine tune, when im still in college trying to pass classes

Like 2gGSX said. Don is using a Meth/Alcohol/Water injection and is boosting 25psi, has all supporting mods and cams. Pretty much maxed out the 16g.

Take any evoIII 16g owner and most don't have meth, cams, or a good stand alone program to fine tune the car. So most won't hit 300hp. Don did and a few others too but they maxed it out. Any more power and they have to upgrade the turbo, a built motor or stroker would help reach more power but why use a evo 16g for a built motor or stroker setup? 50trim can reach 300+hp with less effort and less time.

To the thread starter Paintball. Everyone wants 400+hp but is easier said than done. Do more research before you think you are ready for that power. Also if your on a budget then you shouldn't look into getting big turbos because they do require more supporting mods to use the full potential of a big turbo setup. Sorry to say but I believe that you aren't ready for a big turbo setup reaching 400+hp by the way you are asking questions like what injector size for what turbo. Read and search more, there's a lot of thread topics like this and with your new knowledge you'll have a better idea of which route is best for you and perhaps you'll find that 250-350hp might just be more than enough or not but you gotta do more homework.

 

[donmagicjuan]

how long did it take you to reach those numbers? i was under the impression that it would take alot of time and effort to reach numbers like yours, with tunning and such forth. i know with fine tunning numbers like that can be reached; but when you are fine tunning arent you pretty much set on the car not being daily driver anymore? With a 50trim and an safc you can reach 300 hp, correct? Not much of a fine tunning but good enough for daily driving. I want a 300 hp daily driver car because i dont have that much time to fine tune, when im still in college trying to pass classes

I did the majority of my tuning on the street using 3rd gear pulls and the ECU+ simulated dyno feature. It's not the most accurate way to estimate horsepower, but it is an excellent tool to compare relative results after changing the maps. Once I was happy with my settings, I took it to a dyno to see what numbers it was really making. I paid for an hour session, and after some tweaking (mostly with timing) here and there, I arrived at the numbers I have advertised. I should note that the weather conditions were near 0 density altitude. The boost was actually around 26 psi that day with the water/meth injection, but whatever. I can only estimate airflow at about 38-40 lb/min, as Tom remembers, because ECU+ only reads out in MAS Hz. It was just a little formula I used based on other members' numbers from DSMlink. Hope that helps some.

50trim can reach 300+hp with less effort and less time.

As much as I love my setup, I will have to agree with Luis on this. However, I still feel that a decent tune on a smaller turbo will be more fun than a haphazard tune making equal horsepower on a larger one. Just my .02.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Wow I leave for work for a few hours and this thread explodes

<----- EvoIII power, baby!

A good tune is worth more than a bigger turbo, in my opinion.

Yes Don but what can I say you fine tuned that baby, and have meth injection.

Andy also had one that was constantly boosted at 28psi.

I am assuming you are speaking of Andy M., yes its true he was pushing it, I think more around 26psi, but thats still a lot, but all I have to say is what turbo is he using now??? The BB 50 Trim. 16G was falling off with the stroker.
Yes MHI EVO III 16Gs are great little turbo's that people can do some good damage with, but if I know people, and I do anyone with a boosted car turns to a boost adict very quickly. I know Im addicted after my TSI, then driving my buddy's TSi AWD with a 20G, then driving another friend of mine's 5.0 that has a GT35R on it, Im addicted and will be going with a 35R, I was very impressed by it. Like Spoolin99 said if you have the money for a BB 50 Trim and supporting mods, then go that route because you will be there eventually...trust me. Or you can emulate Dons set-up a bit, and mildly build the block, run a 16G, meth injection, cams, FMIC, ect, ect...
Also either way you go I highly recomend meth/water injection.

As much as I love my setup, I will have to agree with Luis on this. However, I still feel that a decent tune on a smaller turbo will be more fun than a haphazard tune making equal horsepower on a larger one. Just my .02.

I agree as well, but if you have a good tune with the larger tune you will need fine tuning with a smaller turbo.


Dustin

 

[jrpmp69]

I believe that if your goals are to reach 400hp+ go with a bigger turbo like the 50 trim or higher. I dont understand why anyone would want to spend $600+ on a turbo now that would later get replaced by a bigger turbo anyways and spend another $800+, as we all know "the more power we have the more we want".

Edit: The EvoIII would end up costing about the same amount as a regular 50 trim after you add the cost of an installation kit for the 16g which is anywhere from $200-$350.

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

My buddy has a 60 trim, and I have my EVO 3, and I feel more of a pull and a rush with mine than with his. He has an Intake manifold and 1g head, but on every other mod, I have him beat... I am soon upgrading, and these debates on an Evo 3 or 50 trim or whatever, I think I am going to go with a PTE BB turbo, I live in INDY, and they are like 30minutes away from my house, so yeah, I am still looking around...

 

[JOEY A]

I think is it easy to make over 300hp but more than low 300s starts to get hard, Mid 350Hp ish isnt easy and anything more is damn good tuning.


I dont have Meth but I sure do have race gas, And if im going to run that much boost its not going to be on my way to work.

 

[JOEY A]

If you want 400whp then a larger turbo is for you, but anything less the evoiii can handle it.

 

[GVR4592]

I think that if you take a look at compressor maps the decision would be easy. The 57 trim and the 60 trim should be obsolete. There is no real advantage to either of those turbo's, over a 50 trim on a 2.0.