Evo III 16G?

[Blurred Talon]

I've heard of people pushing over 400whp with this turbo. What kind of 1/4 mile times does that relate to?

Sorry for such a newbie question.

 

[Dallas J]

The fastest I know of without N2O is an 11.8 by shapeGSX I think..

-Dallas J

 

[DSMSpyder99]

I've heard of people pushing over 400whp with this turbo. What kind of 1/4 mile times does that relate to?

Sorry for such a newbie question.

it was a person it was SlowBoy Racing and it wasnt on a stock motor. It was a fully built motor, and tuned to perfection on race gas. Theoretically that is about a mid 11 sec quarter mile on a full weight DSM

 

[Blurred Talon]

it was a person it was SlowBoy Racing and it wasnt on a stock motor. It was a fully built motor, and tuned to perfection on race gas. Theoretically that is about a mid 11 sec quarter mile on a full weight DSM

Ah. I'd like to keep the internals stock and see what's the lowest times I could hit? Or should I just stick with the stock 14B?

 

[newports01]

wait so your telling me that you prefer your 14b over your 16g?? jesus i thought the 16g was like such a gain over the 14b.. i have a 96 gs-t with a 14b swap and i want more out of it so i want to go 16g..but if theres no difference then why would i do this? you can run 14 psi safely on a 16g with no fuel mods correct?

 

[GOT 2RBO]

wait so your telling me that you prefer your 14b over your 16g?? jesus i thought the 16g was like such a gain over the 14b.. i have a 96 gs-t with a 14b swap and i want more out of it so i want to go 16g..but if theres no difference then why would i do this? you can run 14 psi safely on a 16g with no fuel mods correct?

read the post again. i think what he/she is saying is that replacing the 14B with a 16G without the proper supporting mods is not going to take you very far. he/she can only boost up to 10psi because of stock fuel system.

 

[newports01]

he/she can only boost up to 10psi because of stock fuel system.

i also asked a question tho.. rre says 14 pounds on a stock fuel system is safe.. just run 93 octain.. is this wrong or what? 14 pounds on a 16g with stock fuel system?

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

i also asked a question tho.. rre says 14 pounds on a stock fuel system is safe.. just run 93 octain.. is this wrong or what? 14 pounds on a 16g with stock fuel system?

yes, 14psi on stock fuel will be fine on an EVOIII 16G. granted the poor thing will not be happy being so limited but once you give her more fuel you will be very happy with the upgrade.

Happy Boosting

 

[GOT 2RBO]

i also asked a question tho.. rre says 14 pounds on a stock fuel system is safe.. just run 93 octain.. is this wrong or what? 14 pounds on a 16g with stock fuel system?

you can go up to 16psi. if you boost more than that, you're asking for a very expensive repair cost.

 

[psychlow]

you can go up to 16psi. if you boost more than that, you're asking for a very expensive repair cost.

This depends on a lot of factors, including what intercooler you have, what the ambient temperature is like, and what altitude you're at.

16PSI on stock fuel on a 16G is asking for it running blind - even more true on a 1G. Don't run it this high until you have a logger to make sure you're not jacking your engine up.

 

[GOT 2RBO]

16PSI on stock fuel on a 16G is asking for it running blind - even more true on a 1G. Don't run it this high until you have a logger to make sure you're not jacking your engine up.

16psi is 16psi regardless of turbo size. the smaller tubo will give you 16 psi earlier in the powerband, the bigger the turbo, the higher in rpm. it's still 16psi you're going to get if that's what your little heart desires. the question was if it was safe... the answer is yes. and it is true about all you said with temps and kind of intercooler and elevation but it still comes down to 16psi. 16psi is not much compared 25+psi that requires more upgrade. and you just jumped into the thread without reading the whole thing... the original person that started the post has a 2G not a 1G but has a 14B swap on it.

 

[dsmayhem]

16psi is 16psi regardless of turbo size. the smaller tubo will give you 16 psi earlier in the powerband, the bigger the turbo, the higher in rpm.

Wrong. Just plain wrong. Do you really believe that 16 PSI on any 2 turbos will provide the same amount of air? With that logic nobody needs to upgrade turbos we all just have to up the boost and a t25 at 16PSI will flow the same as a 50 trim at 16PSI? :laugh:

 

[boostedinaz]

16psi is 16psi regardless of turbo size. the smaller tubo will give you 16 psi earlier in the powerband, the bigger the turbo, the higher in rpm. it's still 16psi you're going to get if that's what your little heart desires.

Wow. :thumbdown

Pressure is the same however volume is alot different. A 50 trim will flow a ton more air at 16psi that a 16G will.


The only way to know how YOUR car will respond is to log YOUR OWN CAR. I got away with 18 lbs on a 14B in my FWD car for along time. Does that mean that my AWD car can do the same, no. My AWD car starts to knock at anythign over 15 lbs. Get a logger it will be you best investment for a DSM.

 

[psychlow]

16psi is 16psi regardless of turbo size. the smaller tubo will give you 16 psi earlier in the powerband, the bigger the turbo, the higher in rpm.

:laugh:

16PSI = 16PSI, yes. But please, allow me to school you a little bit, and let's do a little math.

WARNING: THIS WILL BE A LONG POST.

When you have 16PSI from a T25, the compressor has to spin much faster to produce 16PSI compared to a 50-trim. The lesser compressor efficiency of the smaller T25, added to the fact that the compressor is spinning faster, creates more heat.

Heat expands air. When you add heat, you're adding energy to the air molecules - the electrons move more quickly around the nucleus. If you were able to see the individual moleculs of hot air, they'd be bouncing around inside their container like crazy. In contrast, cooler air takes up less space because the molecules aren't as excited - they don't have as much energy, and the electrons move more slowly.

So, in your head, take 2 pounds of air at atmospheric pressure at room temperature. Not 2 PSI, two POUNDS of air - by weight. Meaning if you stuck the air in a container and put it on a scale, it'd be 2 pounds plus the weight your container would have if it had no air inside it.

Now, in your head, think what would happen if you heat up the air inside this container. If you have a pressure gauge on this container, you can see what happens when you heat air. It EXPANDS. You still have two pounds of air, but the pressure of the air inside the container increases. You can heat up this air until it reaches 16PSI, assuming your container doesn't burst first - but it's still 2 pounds of air! On the flip side, if you cool the air to freezing temperature, you can create a vacuum. Your pressure gauge might show 10 inches of mercury (inMg), but it's still 2 pounds of air!

Where a T25 at 16PSI is throwing 23.1 lb/min of air into your engine, a 16G will throw in 35.4 lb/min at the same pressure ratio!

Why does this matter?

BECAUSE AIR TO FUEL RATIOS ARE MEASURED BY WEIGHT, NOT BY PRESSURE. Meaning if you inject a pound of fuel into your cylinder, you need around 11-12 pounds of air.

450cc injectors are about 43 lb/hr. That's .717 lb/min. Times 4 injectors, that's 2.87 pounds of fuel per minute maximum.

23.1lb/min divided by 2.87/lb/min = 8.049 air to fuel ratio. More than enough headroom here.

35.4lb/min divided by 2.87lb/min = 12.33 air to fuel ratio. Not a lot of headroom, and reality will show you that you'll get significanly leaner A/F because:
-450cc injectors are measured at 2G fuel pressure - 1G fuel pressure will get less!
-A brand new fuel system is hard-pressed to provide the absolute maximum fuel theoretically capable, let alone a 12-16 year old fuel system!

Like boostedinaz and I mentioned, if you don't have a logger, you're asking for it.

 

[joe039]

well said psychlow

 

[joeracer321]

A 16g on a 2g car is not a bang for your buck turbo, when your done with the install kit and everything for a good clipped, ported, and enlarged wastegate, you still have at the max a 35-38 lb/min turbo and are damn near 900 bucks. There are better options out there. A turbo that will outflow the 16g, has similar spool characteristics, requires no porting, clipping or anything like that, and ends up being cheaper than the 16g are the bolt in v trim turbos. They flow about 49 lb/min, and can be run at low boost levels if you are waiting for the rest of the supporting mods. Then once those are done, you have room to grow and make over 400hp. Just because it is what everyone else has doesn't mean it's the best. Just my .02

 

[joeracer321]

:laugh:

16PSI = 16PSI, yes. But please, allow me to school you a little bit, and let's do a little math.

WARNING: THIS WILL BE A LONG POST.

When you have 16PSI from a T25, the compressor has to spin much faster to produce 16PSI compared to a 50-trim. The lesser compressor efficiency of the smaller T25, added to the fact that the compressor is spinning faster, creates more heat.

Heat expands air. When you add heat, you're adding energy to the air molecules - the electrons move more quickly around the nucleus. If you were able to see the individual moleculs of hot air, they'd be bouncing around inside their container like crazy. In contrast, cooler air takes up less space because the molecules aren't as excited - they don't have as much energy, and the electrons move more slowly.

So, in your head, take 2 pounds of air at atmospheric pressure at room temperature. Not 2 PSI, two POUNDS of air - by weight. Meaning if you stuck the air in a container and put it on a scale, it'd be 2 pounds plus the weight your container would have if it had no air inside it.

Now, in your head, think what would happen if you heat up the air inside this container. If you have a pressure gauge on this container, you can see what happens when you heat air. It EXPANDS. You still have two pounds of air, but the pressure of the air inside the container increases. You can heat up this air until it reaches 16PSI, assuming your container doesn't burst first - but it's still 2 pounds of air! On the flip side, if you cool the air to freezing temperature, you can create a vacuum. Your pressure gauge might show 10 inches of mercury (inMg), but it's still 2 pounds of air!

Where a T25 at 16PSI is throwing 23.1 lb/min of air into your engine, a 16G will throw in 35.4 lb/min at the same pressure ratio!

Why does this matter?

BECAUSE AIR TO FUEL RATIOS ARE MEASURED BY WEIGHT, NOT BY PRESSURE. Meaning if you inject a pound of fuel into your cylinder, you need around 11-12 pounds of air.

450cc injectors are about 43 lb/hr. That's .717 lb/min. Times 4 injectors, that's 2.87 pounds of fuel per minute maximum.

23.1lb/min divided by 2.87/lb/min = 8.049 air to fuel ratio. More than enough headroom here.

35.4lb/min divided by 2.87lb/min = 12.33 air to fuel ratio. Not a lot of headroom, and reality will show you that you'll get significanly leaner A/F because:
-450cc injectors are measured at 2G fuel pressure - 1G fuel pressure will get less!
-A brand new fuel system is hard-pressed to provide the absolute maximum fuel theoretically capable, let alone a 12-16 year old fuel system!

Like boostedinaz and I mentioned, if you don't have a logger, you're asking for it.

By the way GREAT POST!!!!!!

 

[pianoman]

I believe shapegsx was pusing 42 or 44lbs a minute out of his evoIII 16g at 24psi. not bad for a turbo under 600 bucks.

 

[dsmayhem]

Thank you psychlow and boostedinaz! I was waiting for someone to jump in here and do all the math

 

[HighPsi92GST]

16psi is 16psi regardless of turbo size.

wow.... so you would say running 16 psi with a stock fuel system on a 50 trim would be a good idea as well? or even a bigger turbo then that?
:thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown

 

[ShapeGSX]

Looks like someone dug up an old one. Yeah, my Evo III 16G pushed 42 to 44lb/min at 24 to 25psi. I've run a bunch of 11 second passes on it. My best is an 11.825 @ 117.55mph with a 1.67 60-ft time. Best mph is 118.02. My car is a stock weight 1997 Eclipse GSX. 3150lbs without me in it.

It isn't ported. It isn't clipped. It has the stock wastegate flapper. Just a $530 Evo III 16G with a $65 RRE outlet pipe and a stainless steel oil feed line.

A larger wastegate and flapper would have hurt the turbo's ability to hold high boost levels.

 

[kristmen]

What about dealing with boost creep/spike issues? I know when I first put my normal Big 16G on my car I had BAD creep from 16 to 20~21 Psi.. I had to port my turbine and wg to fix it.

I'm thinking about buying the Evo 3 turbo for my new car project. I was thinking about having it ported and the wg flapper enlarged.

 

[evolvingGS-t]

Even if you don't reach the 400whp or 10sec 1/4 mile, think about how kick ass your DSM would be with it anyways. It pulls strong as hell all the way thru the RPM band and it spools way quick. (At least for me)

You can't get much more 'bang for the buck' with the EVOIII turbo.

 

[HighPsi92GST]

Looks like someone dug up an old one. .

i was actually reading through tons of 16g threads looking for times people were running and what mods they had. I hate coming across completely false info that i know to be false because the wrong person comes along and reads it, then thinks its true, and spreads the false info somewhere else. I of course knew that wasnt true. sorry to bring back a dead thread.
plus your post there was actually what i have been looking for (times people are running)

 

[BlackbirdOfPrey]

FYI.... 400hp DOES NOT mean you get a certain 1/4 mile time. HP means nothing if you can't drive, or get that power to the wheels, get the wheels to grip the surface, etc..... You could make 100 hp and get a good 1/4 time (though extremely unlikely) if you have the right variables.