2G Evo 8 maf +evo 560+ no safc?

[PlanZero]

I know this has been discussed numerous times but there are several discrepancies in old threads and the few people who actually tried this haven't responded to my PMs.
I have a s16g I'm looking to up the boost a little. I have read that even without a safc it is possible to use the evo 8/3g MAF/MAS with evo 560cc injectors on a 2g and still run well. Has anyone tried this with success? Or will I need a safc? Of course I would be monitoring the a/f ratio on wideband.

 

[zedicus]

that is very true, a way to tune even on a bone stock DSM will net a noticeable horse power increase. especially when taking in to consideration the low compression ratio of a stock engine and todays fuel differences making 12:1 engines fairly common.

i guess where you start should depend on where you want to end. i already have a couple black box cars, and 1 dsm link car. my theory was just that it will add some improvement and basically max out the 14b on this car. while tuning would also net more improvements. THIS car is my DD. for me on this specific car its not worth the effort of going tune-able.

however MOST people would probably benefit from figuring out a way to tune FIRST. as most people do not have a finite goal of a set of random parts from my storage inventory.

 

[m_0ney_pit]

You don't even need a Evo maf for a 14b the stock maf is fine even for a 20g for most poeple.

 

[zedicus]

You don't even need a Evo maf for a 14b the stock maf is fine even for a 20g for most poeple.

saying that reminded me where i had gotten all the parts from. my 482 maf came from. A montero sport. i had all the wiring to make a nice OEM looking adapter. 560cc injectors originally from an evo but out of a different DSM motor i picked up.

and at full tilt the 14b would over run the stock injectors. not by much i agree. it would probably be fine. especially with all the other supporting stuff i have. but why not go ahead and mount the 482 maf and 560 injectors? it is not like i am going to use them any where else. and i can sell the OEM DSM injectors to some kid with a civic.

and yes the stock maf is fine for a 14b if you have a way to tune. the conversation is about adding bigger injectors with out a real tuning solution. so a different maf is required.

 

[OGDSM1989]

Whats the non stock MAF going to help as it will need some sort of tuning to work with the ( in this case ) stock 2g ECU, this may be a mute point if the OP was doing a EVO ECU swap ... the EVO Maf and injectors would all be in sync. Without the EVO ECU / or tuning solution the MAF will always be in some way out of tune with the ECU

 

[m_0ney_pit]

We

saying that reminded me where i had gotten all the parts from. my 482 maf came from. A montero sport. i had all the wiring to make a nice OEM looking adapter. 560cc injectors originally from an evo but out of a different DSM motor i picked up.

and at full tilt the 14b would over run the stock injectors. not by much i agree. it would probably be fine. especially with all the other supporting stuff i have. but why not go ahead and mount the 482 maf and 560 injectors? it is not like i am going to use them any where else. and i can sell the OEM DSM injectors to some kid with a civic.

and yes the stock maf is fine for a 14b if you have a way to tune. the conversation is about adding bigger injectors with out a real tuning solution. so a different maf is required.

Well I guess I don't really get where your going with this. The OP needs bigger injectors for a 16g at high boost but you said yourself you'll be happy with a 14b for the rest of your life? How do you know if the 14b will overrun the stock injectors have you logged it?

A lot of poeple have run 14b around 15-20 psi and been perfectly safe on stock fuel including myself. You go much higher than that and your gonna be rebuilding your turbo much more often.

If it ain't broke don't fix it yo

The point is using a 399 maf and stock 2g ecu and hoping the numbers come out right is pretty lame. Maf scaling, deadtime, injector size and maf size are all wrong and I garentee you it will not run as well as the stock fuel setup.

 

[bastarddsm]

Back in the day it was semi common for guys to run a 2g maf with 550cc injectors without an afc/chip/tuning. The idea was that the 2g maf reported ~20% less air than the engine was taking in, and the 550cc injectors put in 20% more fuel than the ecu though it was. Crude, but effective. The 5.0 mustang guys did this same thing for years and still do.

The biggest downside for us is that our timing maps are indexed off the the air reported by the maf, so you end up running in a load row lower than you should, and you have a bit excessive advance.


I have no idea how the 3g maf is compared to the 2g. But if it is the same increment i.e. reports 20% less air than the 2g, there is no reason it wouldn't work just as well.

I would check on the yahoo group or dsm-ecu for the maf comp people are using, and go from there.

Steve could you post your numbers?

 

[EvilGST]

Idk how some of these people claim to run 20psi on the stock fuel system. I knew my 450cc's where at 90% at 15psi with a wally and AFPR @ 11:1 AFR

 

[PlanZero]

I realize this thread has been overly discussed. I may just get the 560s and a SAFC if the deal is right, and integrate the evo maf later on. I only wanted to know if anyone specifically tried this combo and had real results.
My original opinion was that if the designer of DSM link (Tom Dorris, whom I quoted earlier) says it's a near perfect match, I'd give it a try.

 

[91stocker]

I realize this thread has been overly discussed. I may just get the 560s and a SAFC if the deal is right, and integrate the evo maf later on. I only wanted to know if anyone specifically tried this combo and had real results.
My original opinion was that if the designer of DSM link (Tom Dorris, whom I quoted earlier) says it's a near perfect match, I'd give it a try.

Its the same principle as the 2g maf in a 1g. Which many of us including myself have ran. The 13.20 time in my sig is on a 2g maf/550 combo with a slipping center dif. The car had 12.90's in it. Which in my opinion is impressive on such a basic set up.

Match the your injector choice as close percentage wise as you can get and it will be a great little street set up. Like i said in a previous post just be aware of what fuel pressure you are running and what fuel pressure the injectors you chose are rated at, then run the numbers. Im not familiar with the evo maf, but if it reads say 20% higher than find injectors on your set up that will flow as close to 20% more as possible. Not all injectors are rated at 43psi of fuel pressure which is where some people run into issues then claim the set up doesnt work.

On my set up it leaned out the wot afr's about a full point and bumped the timing a tad. Which over stock was perfect in my opinion. Watch your logs and watch your afr's.

You can always tweak the set up by changing out your stock fpr's or if you have to tweak the mas adjustment screw. Counter clockwise to lean it out, clockwise to richen.

 

[m_0ney_pit]

im gonna see if my bro wants to do some testing cause hes got them on his car to generate some data with evoscan just gotta find an evo 8 maf again . the evo 8 maf did seem like it was a tad smoother than the 2g in low maf hz when I ran it to calibrate my maft so that in itself is an upgrade i guess.

 

[boostdawd]

Im currently running evo 8 560cc injectors, evo 8 maf, evo 9 rewired fuel pump on my 1g with an e316g turbo. I have been using the SAFC for 2 years now and been tuning on it for some time. The adjustments are quite small as I only had to increase fuel by 4% on the safc. Depending on the rpm it varies from 4-10% to get may afrs at 11.1. This is on 18psi.

 

[dsm-dad]

Great read here. I am a 1g guy with link but my girlfriend caught the boost bug and now there is also a 2g gsx in the driveway. So i bought her a big16g wastegate off the o2 and some rc 550cc injectors as I've heard this has been done before with success. But since last night when i,purchased these items i can't bring myself to run this setup without a tuning device so I've found a black box and cable but i believe i need a patch harness for her 2ga gsx, correct? Does anybody know the person who makes said harness? And who can tune the black box with evo scan i believe? Any help would appreciated the tuning i will learn with the black box but I'd definitely like to make sure it's solid before sending her to happy boost land

 

[YoungCesar303]

Anybody ever find out , if it’s ok to go with 560cc injectors and evo 8 maf without a tune on a 2g?

 

[curt-s]

Among other things, my chief concern would be that there is no guarantee that the MAF will read airflow in a way that directly corresponds to delivered injector flow rate at a particular pulse width.
You're not only using a MAF that is not designed for the ECU but the injectors aren't either. Hoping to marry those two up in 1:1 compensation without any ability to tweak airflow (and by that, injector pulse length) is incredibly risky at the least.