Evo=4 Dr Gsx?

[94SupraTT]

I just don't understand the hype. Its powered by a motor that Eclipses have had FOR YEARS. The 4G63. Also AWD with the 4G63 is NOTHING new. Anyone remember the Ecllipse GSX? So why didn't everyone freak out over the 1st GSX? Same motor, both are AWD. Why all the fuss?

 

[94SupraTT]

Originally posted by EvolvingGST


But the reason it was made and sold is for racing around corners and bends. Its like telling me a supra can destroy a LanEvo in autocross.. I have yet to see it happen. thank you very much.

Are you implying that Supras do not handle well? It pulled a .95-.98 on the skidpad. Honestly I'm not a big fan of autocross. Road Racing is much more interesting to me. Last I checked the Supra did QUITE well in 2 such events. Two years ago in One Lap of America, Andy Baritchi's Supra placed 4th overall. Also 2 years ago in SCC Ultimate Street car challenge Mani's Supra placed 2nd overall. Vipers, Skylines, Corvettes, and other sick cars were in the competition.

 

[StockSpyder]

hahah puhleeze, you arent talking to some ricer with a fartcan and an intake here.. make sense if you must speak. Street tires. not this dot legal bullshit. E.T. Streets are slicks. period. By Street tires that means you drive off the street, and go run at the track. Dont bring up the race gas bullcrap, because supras are in the same boat. A Supra with 91 CA pisswater or even 93 isnt going to run a very impressive time. Drivers arent as competant? oh well. whose fault is that? certainly nobody on this board. Nobody said the Supra isnt a compentant handler, it certainly is. Its a tremendous car, overbuilt and made well, it still isnt made for a straight line, unless its a freeway. But too bad this isnt supraforums.com.

 

[94SupraTT]

Originally posted by StockSpyder
hahah puhleeze, you arent talking to some ricer with a fartcan and an intake here.. make sense if you must speak. Street tires. not this dot legal bullshit. E.T. Streets are slicks. period. By Street tires that means you drive off the street, and go run at the track. Dont bring up the race gas bullcrap, because supras are in the same boat. A Supra with 91 CA pisswater or even 93 isnt going to run a very impressive time. Drivers arent as competant? oh well. whose fault is that? certainly nobody on this board. Nobody said the Supra isnt a compentant handler, it certainly is. Its a tremendous car, overbuilt and made well, it still isnt made for a straight line, unless its a freeway. But too bad this isnt supraforums.com.

Its just funny to me that you actually believe its practical to run race gas 365 days a year. I said in MY LOCAL AREA domestics run DRs, and ET Streets EVERYDAY. I never called ET Streets, STREET TIRES. You might want to REREAD what I said. You are yet ANOTHER person with poor reading comprehension. Nitrous is NOT legal on the street but people still use it.

I am in an area that has a TON of domestics. They run around on ET Streets, DRs, whatever you name it. To me its more practical to run a sticky tire then try to run race gas everyday.

We do not have 116 at ever corner. It is NOT practical to pay $4.99/gallon every time I want to fill up. Fact of the matter is I am MUCH more likely to line up with a domestic that is on DRs, or ET Streets ON THE STREET then a 4cyl. import, EVOs included running RACE GAS. Supras are not in the same boat. For one thing we have more displacement. Furthermore, I for one will be running 26-28psi ON PUMP with NO knock.

I find it quite humorous that race gas is ok but people whine and cry about DRs, and ET Streets on the street. I do not have the luxury to whine and cry in my area. If a car rolls up on me with DRs, and ET Streets I can either WHINE or shut up and race. So whine all you want about tires however please DO NOT come to Tidewater Virginia because you will see a TON of domestics with sticky tires that are strictly business on the street.

 

[StockSpyder]

ON PUMP? haha okay.. what kind of pump? 104? I never said anything about running race gas 365 a year.. idiot.. And no, you referenced E.T. Streets and the discussion somehow turned into street tires.. moron.. hahah crying? take a good look in the mirror before you start claiming things.. You were the one crying about race gas and awd, not me. yes I agree run what you brung.. 26-28 lbs? sorry gotta raise the bullshit flag on that one... what a ricer.. I knew this board wasnt the most best out there, but I was hoping for a least a tiny vestige of knowledge.. but its yet another supra moron.. 26 - 28 lbs on pump gas!! Next thing you will tell me is that your intake manifold temps are too high!! HAHAHAH .. haha you must think I fell off the cabbage wagon yesterday... And please.. bumf*ck virginia? where the hell is that? last I checked it isnt exactly the center of forced induction or import performance, and while I dont doubt the abundance of fast domestics there, I highly doubt they are just running around on the streets like you claim.. bench racing is fun, but best left to tools like you. go back to supraforums.com.. please.

 

[ProStreetOnline]

Originally posted by 94SupraTT

Furthermore, I for one will be running 26-28psi ON PUMP with NO knock.

Why does this sound completely idiotic to me? What? You guys have C16 at the pump over there?

 

[StockSpyder]

Originally posted by prostreetonline


Why does this sound completely idiotic to me? What? You guys have C16 at the pump over there?

I dont know, but maybe 94SupraTT should hook Titan Motorsports up with his pump gas.. they've been doing it wrong all along.

 

[Boostit]

ok.. at first, i thought.. maybe you really wanted to know about the Evo and what it brings with it to the USA, but now that i have read all your responses.. you just posted so you can sit here and dog on all the responses that all these great DSM members have tried giving you.

YOUR SUPRA IS GOD.. IT IS THE BEST CAR IN THE WORLD.. WHO GIVES A ####!

and yes, the mods i mention on the 03 cobra gets it into 12.5-12.7's with a decent driver.. that Evo i showed has only run a 12.9.

, it already jumps around 19psi in stock settings, he just made it level at 19psi..

stop the hating and stfu.

thanx.

 

[94SupraTT]

Originally posted by Boostit
ok.. at first, i thought.. maybe you really wanted to know about the Evo and what it brings with it to the USA, but now that i have read all your responses.. you just posted so you can sit here and dog on all the responses that all these great DSM members have tried giving you.

YOUR SUPRA IS GOD.. IT IS THE BEST CAR IN THE WORLD.. WHO GIVES A ####!

and yes, the mods i mention on the 03 cobra gets it into 12.5-12.7's with a decent driver.. that Evo i showed has only run a 12.9.

, it already jumps around 19psi in stock settings, he just made it level at 19psi..

stop the hating and stfu.

thanx.

Not once did I call a Supra a GOD. They are great cars, however one of many. The absolute BEST the EVO has ran is a 12.9, the time you list for the 03 Cobra are AVERAGE times. EVOs local to me have went 13.7s. EVOs are ok cars just not nearly as bad as everyone hypes them up.

Originally posted by StockSpyder


I dont know, but maybe 94SupraTT should hook Titan Motorsports up with his pump gas.. they've been doing it wrong all along.

Originally posted by prostreetonline


Why does this sound completely idiotic to me? What? You guys have C16 at the pump over there?

I mentioned somewhere that I have more displacement then most imports. As much as import guys dislike it there is NO replacement for it. I will make more HP on pump then an import with less displacement.

A methanol injection system was designed specifically for the Supra. That is how I will be running 26-28psi pump gas. I am FAR from a ricer. So please STFU.

Benefits:
* Dramatically raises the knock threshold. 30psi+ boost levels possible with no detonation on single turbos (I do not recommend pushing stock twins this hard), and the resulting huge power gains.
* Spool-up. Increased density and velocity in the exhaust from expanding steam act to spin up the turbine faster. This greatly increases spool. Cases of full boost reached as much as 500RPM lower than before.
* Drastically reduces inlet temperatures, boosting horsepower vs. same boost level with race fuel. Intake temps below 30F on a 80F day. 30F air is 10% denser (and capable of producing 10% more HP) than 80F air.
* Enrichment (see options for details). The system adds extra fuel. In most cases, a upgraded fuel system is no longer required.
* Leaner mixtures. The main reason for running a rich mixture under boost on gasoline is for the extra cooling the extra fuel provides. Since methanol/water are many times more effective at in cylinder cooling as gasoline, over rich mixtures are no longer required. 13:1-13.5:1 AFRs can be used safely. More power can be made (leaner is meaner). This also means whatever injectors you have now, can produce 15% more RWHP than if they were required to keep a 11.5:1 ratio like with gasoline alone.
* Higher timing. Because of the incredible anti-knock capabilities, significantly higher timing advance can be used without any knock, dramatically increasing overall power.
* EGTs. Exhaust Gas Temperatures are FAR lower when methanol/water injection is used. You will see EGTs drop even as the boost goes up. Thermal stresses on all parts in contact with exhaust gasses (spark plugs, pistons, valves, header, turbine) are reduced. Practically eliminates fear of "melt down" failure, a common occurance on race gas fueled high boosted vehicles.
* Cleans your engine. Water has a very powerful decarbonizing effect on the combustion chamber, exhaust valves, turbine, and exhaust. Any amount of water in the mix will remove carbon deposts. Alcohol has a tremendous cleaning effect on any grime in the intake manifold. After 20 gallons or so has gone through the motor, it should look like new inside. This also serves to keep plugs from fouling, or even rejuvanate fouled plugs.
* No lead. No worries about fouling 02 sensors like with race fuel.

In short it offers the benefits of buying a $2500 fuel system, and running $8/gallon race fuel all the time, at aprox $300 initial cost, and only a extra few dollars for alcohol per use of a tank of regular pump gas.

Any mix of methanol, ethanol (denatured), or isopropyl and water can be used. Every mix will require a slightly different tuning approach, as the HP/gallon ratio changes, as well as the anti-knock effectiveness. 50/50 methanol/water is the most effective anti-knock mix, also requiring the least total volume flow rate, and lowest (if any) adjustment to base fueling. 100% methanol is almost as effective as a anti-knock additive, and becomes just as much so when used in larger volume flow rates. Note that there is a limit to how much water you can introduce to combustion and still yield positive results. With pure methanol, you can keep adding more and more so long as you tune the AFR out by reducing gasoline flow through the injectors.

Mounting and Tank Options:
* 1 gal: Use a rear mounted 1 gallon tank, with rear mounted pump. Long pressure line feeds to near throttle body at front of car.
* 2.5 gal: Use a rear mounted 2.5 gallon tank, with rear mounted pump. Long pressure line feeds to near throttle body at front of car. Recommended for road racers, otherwise a 1 gal tank will have plenty of reserve.
* 93+ MKIV Toyota Supra: Use the stock windshield washer tank as fluid container, mount the pump on the intercooler tubing near tank, and have much shorter pressure delivery line to injection point.

Flow rate and mix:
When deciding fuel enrichment needed, consider that you can run leaner safely with methanol/water or methanol injection than just gasoline (race or pump). Your existing injectors will be able to make 10-20% more power when tuned leaner. If you have stock injectors currently, I highly recommend trying out my system before investing in a fuel system. You will be impressed by the extra power you can get without the need for a $2500 fuel system.

* Standard Flow: Use a 50/50 mix of methanol/water, aprox .3GPM maximum volume flow rate. Best option for most people. Will give maximum knock protection with minimal impact on fueling changes. Can be run with existing tuning without the need to retune, although tuning will always offer advantages. Will offer aprox 50RWHP extra fueling capability to any fuel system. This can be increased up to aprox 100RWHP with 100% methanol, but will double the amount of fueling adjustment needed.
* High Flow: Use 90/10 methanol/water or 100% methanol, aprox .6GPM maximum volume flow rate. For those needing maximum fuel enrichment (700RWHP or more on stock injectors). Requires significant adjustment to base fueling to run effectively. Offers aprox 150RWHP fuel enrichment on 100% methanol, 200RWHP enrichment on 100% ethanol. For real crazy folks, a double nozzle system is available, which makes for almost 300RWHP worth of extra fuel.

Failsafes:
There is a pressure switch on top of the pump. This switch monitors the presence of injection pressure. You can use this output for any number of conditional actions within the car.

Stock ECU
* Reduce/keep boost at lower level (up to as low your wastegate will go) if system is not under pressure. Requires GM boost solenoid.
* Cut spark and/or fuel if beyond certain boost level and system is not under pressure. Requires pressure switch and relay.
* Deactivate any changes made to base fueling by s-afc or similar devise. Requires relay.

 

[QuickerDSM]

Interesting thread.

Back to the topic now. The Evo is being hyped because of a lot of reasons already mentioned. Think of it this way. If Toyota decided to bring back the Supra, even if it had less hp, less stylish, etc., it would STILL get hyped up by the upper scale import crowd. Agreed?

The Evo is hyped by the AWD arena just like the Supra is hyped to the upper scale rwd import arena (IE TT RX7, TT Supra, TT 300Z, 350Z etc).

I think your original intentions on this forum were harmless so I'll ignore the "other" parts of the thread. What it boils down to is this. The Evo is a very good performing car. When I first heard about it's price tag, I was a bit skeptical myself. Now seeing what the car is capable of in stock form, I can see why they are asking that kind of price. I personally will not pay that kind of money for it, but a lot of people will and that is what business is all about. There is no such thing as a car that will appeal to 100% of the population.

As for the ET streets, DR's, Racing fuel...... My motto always has been and always will be, run what ya brung, period. The fact of the matter is, if someone gets beat in a heads up race, they will ALWAYS have an excuse. He had DR's, she squeezed on me, he has a bigger turbo, he had AWD, she had race gas,,,, the list of excuses is endless. If you don't like it, deal with it. People are going to run whatever the hell they want to.

JMHO.

Mike

 

[StockSpyder]

Originally posted by 94SupraTT


A methanol injection system was designed specifically for the Supra. That is how I will be running 26-28psi pump gas. I am FAR from a ricer. So please STFU.

!! hes talking about using race gas and how unconvential it is, but hes going to run methanol on his Supra!! .. go away son, you bother me. Far from a ricer? please.. you are the epitome of a ricer you asshat.

 

[EvolvingGST]

See StockSpyder... He doesnt like listening to anyone but himself and people that agree with him... you can see i didn't pick the fights ^^;

And BTW... I never said Supras don't handle well, but compared to the Evo in handling its like racing a shopping cart against a motorcycle...

 

[Boostit]

WERD!

 

[94SupraTT]

Originally posted by StockSpyder


!! hes talking about using race gas and how unconvential it is, but hes going to run methanol on his Supra!! .. go away son, you bother me. Far from a ricer? please.. you are the epitome of a ricer you asshat.

If you knew anything about racing you would know that Turbo Buick guys have been doing this for years. Their system is not nearly as effective as the one developed for the Supra. Feel free to STFU now! Its not 100% methanol. Its methanol INJECTION. I never said I was going to run methanol as a replacement for gasoline. Most run some type of lub. and a 50/50 mix with water.

Originally posted by QuickerDSM
Interesting thread.

Back to the topic now. The Evo is being hyped because of a lot of reasons already mentioned. Think of it this way. If Toyota decided to bring back the Supra, even if it had less hp, less stylish, etc., it would STILL get hyped up by the upper scale import crowd. Agreed?

The Evo is hyped by the AWD arena just like the Supra is hyped to the upper scale rwd import arena (IE TT RX7, TT Supra, TT 300Z, 350Z etc).

I think your original intentions on this forum were harmless so I'll ignore the "other" parts of the thread. What it boils down to is this. The Evo is a very good performing car. When I first heard about it's price tag, I was a bit skeptical myself. Now seeing what the car is capable of in stock form, I can see why they are asking that kind of price. I personally will not pay that kind of money for it, but a lot of people will and that is what business is all about. There is no such thing as a car that will appeal to 100% of the population.

As for the ET streets, DR's, Racing fuel...... My motto always has been and always will be, run what ya brung, period. The fact of the matter is, if someone gets beat in a heads up race, they will ALWAYS have an excuse. He had DR's, she squeezed on me, he has a bigger turbo, he had AWD, she had race gas,,,, the list of excuses is endless. If you don't like it, deal with it. People are going to run whatever the hell they want to.

JMHO.

Mike

Good stuff!

 

[entropy138]

Dude.... methanol injection, propane injection, n2o, water/alki injection, race gas.....

None of them qualify as 'PUMP GAS.' You've used an outside source to modify your octane level....So this makes your argument about you'll make more power on pump gas than anyone else COMPLETELY WORTHLESS BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT USING STRAIGT PUMP GAS.

Race gas is usually mixed w/ pump gas too... So how is it different??

Or maybe I missed which pump at chevron pumps out Methanol....??

Man I've met a ton of cool supra owners that go against the stereotype of being overcocky, narrowminded, egotistical, supra centered(meaning you can't see past anything but you're car - and think it is so much better than everyone else) . But you definately back the stereotype up.

And stop throwing around "STFU" you sound like a little teenie bopper on ICQ....

 

[djpast]

as for the STi, everyone i have seen tested, they ALL detonate around 4k. on 94 oct even

 

[94SupraTT]

Originally posted by entropy138
Dude.... methanol injection, propane injection, n2o, water/alki injection, race gas.....

None of them qualify as 'PUMP GAS.' You've used an outside source to modify your octane level....So this makes your argument about you'll make more power on pump gas than anyone else COMPLETELY WORTHLESS BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT USING STRAIGT PUMP GAS.

Race gas is usually mixed w/ pump gas too... So how is it different??

Or maybe I missed which pump at chevron pumps out Methanol....??

Man I've met a ton of cool supra owners that go against the stereotype of being overcocky, narrowminded, egotistical, supra centered(meaning you can't see past anything but you're car - and think it is so much better than everyone else) . But you definately back the stereotype up.

And stop throwing around "STFU" you sound like a little teenie bopper on ICQ....

You must have missed the part where I said Supras have MORE DISPLACEMENT then most imports. So yes I will make more on pump gas then most. The statements I made were MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. However, you did not catch that either. Another thing you missed is that I gave other cars credit, the EVO just did not get as much credit as them. Personally I think 03 Cobras are BAAAD cars. Perhaps if your reading comprehension level were higher you would understand this. Honestly I have grown tired of trying to spoon feed people what I have said. So if you want to right me off as the "typical Supra owner" because I disagree with many on this board feel free. It however does not validate anything you have attempted to say. FYI-I run a message board that is quite successful it has a mixture of domestics, imports, bikes, etc, etc, I am far from the "typical Supra owner".

 

[AW4G63]

The man is right, We should all stop with the hype and ditch this site and spend $30,000 on a 7 year old car.



This thread is nearly as pointless as my post in it.

You seem to be nearly angry over peoples views and hype.

You say you got your car for the "insane power" , We got ours for its "insane traction"

Just ask John Sheperd, He did win the street class against all those "insane powered supras" didnt he?

People like to mod civics for christ sake. Why? Who knows...But let them.

People like the EVO
People like the supra
people like the element.

Car makers make multiple cars for a reason, But I guess some people have trouble understanding this.

 

[HyperGSX]

Originally posted by AW4G63
The man is right, We should all stop with the hype and ditch this site and spend $30,000 on a 7 year old car.



This thread is nearly as pointless as my post in it.

You seem to be nearly angry over peoples views and hype.

You say you got your car for the "insane power" , We got ours for its "insane traction"

Just ask John Sheperd, He did win the street class against all those "insane powered supras" didnt he?

People like to mod civics for christ sake. Why? Who knows...But let them.

People like the EVO
People like the supra
people like the element.

Car makers make multiple cars for a reason, But I guess some people have trouble understanding this.

Well put

 

[AW4G63]

Originally posted by HyperGSX


Well put

Like the power from a DSM though its AWD.

We have yet to see him since my post.........Kinda like a supra with traction. He wasted a 20 minutes making senseless noise then he's gone/

 

[awd4g63]

Originally posted by AW4G63


Like the power from a DSM though its AWD.

We have yet to see him since my post.........Kinda like a supra with traction. He wasted a 20 minutes making senseless noise then he's gone/

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Good one!

You're first post was well-said by the way

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by 94SupraTT


So are you saying that only 95-99 DSMs were 7bolt and crankwalk was only a symptom of them? I honestly don't know the specifics that is why I am asking you. Also as far as inflation goes, the prices for the 300z, VR4, RX7, NSX, and RX7 all inflated. The majority if not ALL car prices go up. The price of the EVO will not drop. It will only go up. If I had $30k laying around I would not get an EVO but thats just me. I would probably get a LS1 powered car, or search for an 03 Cobra.

Dude what exactly is your point. This looks like a very subtle DSM bashing event. You speak from a position of trying to gain factual information. However at the same time throw in subtle sarcastic hints, that you think the EVO is over priced 4 banger garbage. I honestly don't think you have a Supra, I think you are a domestic troll.

If you dont think the evo is worth the money don't buy one. If you think its all hype, Again don't buy one. If in fact you would rather spend your money on a Ls1 0r 03, Have a ball. im surprised im the only one that is aware of your bullshit DSM/EVO bashing bullshit.

 

[AW4G63]

He's gone ,but still a knoob.

 

[LandoAWD]

And, we have reached our end.

 

[Ludachris]

I'd like to chime in after the dust has settled on this subject....

At $29k, the Evolution does everything that the $50k Supra couldn't. It handles better, it has similar power ratings, it competes in a racing circuit watched all around the world, and it will actually sell. The reason for it's popularity comes down to its success in the racing world - just like the WRX.

Calling it a 4-door Eclipse is like calling the new SSR (Chevy's new truck) a Camaro with a bed. Sure the motors are almost the same, but that's about it. Every part on the car is far more advanced than the Eclipse. Go take a drive in one and tell me it's a 4-door Eclipse afterward, then I'll know you're full of shit.

For $29k, you can have a practical car that can run with Camaros and Mustangs - and out-handle them both. Not a bad purchase in my opinion. I was blown away that Mitsu was able to offer so much for under $30k, and yet there are still people wondering why the car gets so much hype? Aside from the Evo, the STi and the 350Z, what other cars are available for $31k (brand new) or under with that much all around performance today? I think everyone else has some catching up to do. Unfortunately for us, there's absolutely no competition for the Evo and STi for under $45k. They're in a class all their own.

 

[Ludachris]

What other brand new car would you buy for $29k that would give you better performance?